Talk:Han Chinese

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Chinese in Cuba are less than 300[edit]

Please fix it, ffs. Proofs: and


Southern Han largely share the same Y chromosomes with the same mutations as northern Han, while differing in mtdna and autosomal DNA.. Due to southern Han being descended from northern Han migrants who moved to southern China and married native women

Do not use the blog as a reference, but use it to find and cross reference other sources.

Teochew, Fujianese, and Hakka Y chromosome compared in Singapore. The three groups largely share the same Y chromosome

Differences between southern Han Chinese groups like Chaoshan, Hakka, and Cantonese is mainly in the mtdna lineage inherited from the mother, where some southern Han have heavy amounts of southern native mtdna.

Taiwanese Plains Aborigines, Taiwanese people


"Have mainland (Tangshan) grandfathers, don't have mainland (tangshan) grandmothers

Autosomal DNA

Title: Y Chromosomes of 40% Chinese Are Descendants of Three Neolithic Super-grandfathers

Genetic tests on minority Zhuang Y Chromosomes show them to be of Baiyue descent, while they have some Northern Han y chromsomes due to migration of northern Han to southern China.

A map of Baiyue ethnic groups in Southern China during the Zhou dynasty's rule over Northern China.

58[A25] JIN Li, LI Hui, WEN Bo(2005) Genetic Structure of Han: Demic Diffusion of Han Culture. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall 15:110-117.

     [PDF fulltext ]  [Abstract ]

57[A24] LI Hui (2005) Genetic Evidence for Nationalism of China: One Root, Tufty Branches and Crossed Twigs. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall 15:118-133.

     [PDF fulltext ]  [Abstract ]

☻52[A20] WEN Bo, LI Hui, LU Daru, SONG Xiufeng, ZHANG Feng, HE Yungang, LI Feng, GAO Yang, MAO Xianyun, ZHANG Liang, QIAN Ji, TAN Jingze, JIN Jianzhong, HUANG Wei, DEKA Ranjan, SU Bing, CHAKRABORTY Ranajit, JIN Li (2004) Genetic evidence supports demic diffusion of Han culture. Nature 431:302-305.

     [PDF fulltext]  [Abstract] [Supplement1] [Supplement2] [Supplement3] [Supplement4-mtDNA]

[A24] 李輝 (2005) 從“五族共和”到“多元一體”:國族理論的遺傳實證. 國立國父紀念館館刊 15:118-133.

       LI Hui (2005) Genetic Evidence for Nationalism of China: One Root, Tufty Branches and Crossed Twigs. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall  15:118-133.
     [PDF全文下载]  [摘要]

[A25] 金力,李輝,文波 (2005) 漢族的遺傳結構:文化傳播伴隨人口擴張. 國立國父紀念館館刊 15:110-117.

        JIN Li, LI Hui, WEN Bo (2005) Genetic Structure of Han: Demic Diffusion of Han Culture. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall 15:110-117.
     [PDF全文下载]  [摘要]

[A20] WEN Bo, LI Hui, LU Daru, SONG Xiufeng, ZHANG Feng, HE Yungang, LI Feng, GAO Yang, MAO Xianyun, ZHANG Liang, QIAN Ji, TAN Jingze, JIN Jianzhong, HUANG Wei, DEKA Ranjan, SU Bing, CHAKRABORTY Ranajit, JIN Li (2004) Genetic evidence supports demic diffusion of Han culture. Nature 431:302-305.文波,李辉,卢大儒,宋秀峰,张锋,何云刚,李峰,高扬,毛显赟,张良,钱吉,谭婧泽,金建中,黄薇,黛卡-兰江,宿兵,查卡菩提-让纳杰,金力 (2004) 遗传证据支持汉文化传播的人口扩张模式.自然 431:302-305.

     [PDF全文下载]  [摘要]

[A24] ���x.�ġ����干�͡�������Ԫһ�w����������Փ���z�����C. �������������ݹݿ�,2005.15:118-133.

       LI Hui(2005). Genetic Evidence for Nationalism of China: One Root, Tufty Branches and Crossed Twigs. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall, 15:118-133.

[A25] ����,����,�IJ�.�h�����z���Y�����Ļ��������S�˿ڔU��. �������������ݹݿ�,2005.15:110-117.

        JIN Li, LI Hui, WEN Bo(2005). Genetic Structure of Han: Demic Diffusion of Han Culture. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall, 15:110-117. (Review).

[A20] WEN Bo, LI Hui, LU Daru, SONG Xiufeng, ZHANG Feng, HE Yungang, LI Feng, GAO Yang, MAO Xianyun, ZHANG Liang, QIAN Ji, TAN Jingze, JIN Jianzhong, HUANG Wei, DEKA Ranjan, SU Bing, CHAKRABORTY Ranajit, JIN Li, (2004). Genetic evidence supports demic diffusion of Han culture. NATURE, 431:302-305.


Pinghua population as an exception of Han Chinese's coherent genetic structure

Genetic Structure of the Han Chinese Population Revealed by Genome-wide SNP Variation

[Study on HLA haplotypes in Jiangsu-Zhejiang-Shanghai Han population].

[The genetic characteristic of HLA-DRB1 locus in the Jiangsu-Zhejiang-Shanghai Han population and a comparison of its frequency distribution with that of other populations].

These articles are about HLA allele frequency, not Y chromosome or autosomal genetics (so if you read the charts and mistakenly assume they are talking about genetic closeness you will get ridiculous results, like Northern Han and Taiwanese being closer with Southern Han in another branch, and Singapore Chinese being close to Tibetans while Southern Han and Northern Han are in another branch). Don't abuse charts like these and claim they represent how genetically related people are to each other.!po=10.8696

Historical Migration of Northern Han to Southern China[edit],+the+diversity+of+the+southern+and+south-eastern+dialects,+and+also+the+archaic+character+of+several+of+them,+bears+witness+to+the+relative+stability+of+the+peoples+established+in+these+regions&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XJM8VJaPNvPhsAT24YDwDw&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=On%20the%20other%20hand%2C%20the%20diversity%20of%20the%20southern%20and%20south-eastern%20dialects%2C%20and%20also%20the%20archaic%20character%20of%20several%20of%20them%2C%20bears%20witness%20to%20the%20relative%20stability%20of%20the%20peoples%20established%20in%20these%20regions&f=false,+Chinese+emigration+to+Yunnan,+Kwangtung+and+north+and+central+Vietnam+increased+considerably.+...&hl=en&ei=8wd5TqOiOcHv0gHxmtTrDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=At%20the%20time%20of%20the%20troubles%20which%20marked%20the%20reign%20of%20Wang%20Mang%20(9-23)%20and%20the%20first%20years%20of%20the%20Han%20restoration%2C%20Chinese%20emigration%20to%20Yunnan%2C%20Kwangtung%20and%20north%20and%20central%20Vietnam%20increased%20considerably.%20...&f=false's+oldest+living+civilization+revealed+john+makeham&dq=China:+the+world's+oldest+living+civilization+revealed+john+makeham&hl=en&sa=X&ei=VcE9VOCIL7SBsQTAu4G4CA&ved=0CB8Q6wEwAA,+most+linguists+and+historians+believe+that+Cantonese+as+a+language+and+culture+began+to+break+away+from+proto-+Chinese+during+the+Qin+dynasty+(221–206+bce).+During+that+period+Han+settlers+began+moving+into+southern+China+from+...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=06Y8VPPrIZXesATSnoLICw&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=However%2C%20most%20linguists%20and%20historians%20believe%20that%20Cantonese%20as%20a%20language%20and%20culture%20began%20to%20break%20away%20from%20proto-%20Chinese%20during%20the%20Qin%20dynasty%20(221–206%20bce).%20During%20that%20period%20Han%20settlers%20began%20moving%20into%20southern%20China%20from%20...&f=false,+perhaps+five+great+waves+of+migration+brought+Hakka+from+the+central+plains+of+northern+China+southward,+first+to+the+Gan+River+valley+in+Jiangxi+and+then+successively+into+the+rugged&hl=en&ei=mCGCTvT3GoTW0QHG4_ycAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Between%20the%20fourth%20and%20nineteenth%20centuries%2C%20perhaps%20five%20great%20waves%20of%20migration%20brought%20Hakka%20from%20the%20central%20plains%20of%20northern%20China%20southward%2C%20first%20to%20the%20Gan%20River%20valley%20in%20Jiangxi%20and%20then%20successively%20into%20the%20rugged&f=false–+HaKKa.+A+subgroup+of+the+Han+Chinese.+Most+still+live+in+Jiangxi,+Fujian,+Guangdong,+and+Taiwan.+Because+their+ancestors+were+immigrants+from+northern+China,+local+people+called+the+newcomers+hakka+(guest+families&hl=en&ei=vCGCTvanJYn50gHbsbF2&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=–%20HaKKa.%20A%20subgroup%20of%20the%20Han%20Chinese.%20Most%20still%20live%20in%20Jiangxi%2C%20Fujian%2C%20Guangdong%2C%20and%20Taiwan.%20Because%20their%20ancestors%20were%20immigrants%20from%20northern%20China%2C%20local%20people%20called%20the%20newcomers%20hakka%20(guest%20families&f=false's+compiled+volume+of+Shung+Him+Tong+genealogies+to+provide+evidence+of+the+northern+Chinese+origins+of+the+Hakka.51+What+Pang+does+with+his&hl=en&ei=uSGCTurRE6ru0gGqq92eAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=His%20best-known%20book%20on%20historical%20sources%20for%20the%20study%20of%20the%20Hakka%20draws%20in%20part%20from%20Pang's%20compiled%20volume%20of%20Shung%20Him%20Tong%20genealogies%20to%20provide%20evidence%20of%20the%20northern%20Chinese%20origins%20of%20the%20Hakka.51%20What%20Pang%20does%20with%20his&f=false,+these+%22guests%22+are+still+treated+as+outsiders+and+intruders+even+though+everyone+now+concedes+that+they+are+Han+Chinese.+The+Hakka+identify+themselves+as+northern+Chinese,+and+this+contention+has+some+basis&hl=en&ei=tCGCTpG0BcbZ0QG994mmAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=In%20many%20parts%20of%20south%20China%2C%20these%20%22guests%22%20are%20still%20treated%20as%20outsiders%20and%20intruders%20even%20though%20everyone%20now%20concedes%20that%20they%20are%20Han%20Chinese.%20The%20Hakka%20identify%20themselves%20as%20northern%20Chinese%2C%20and%20this%20contention%20has%20some%20basis&f=false

Anti foreign sentiment and blood purity among Southeastern Literati during the Tang dynasty,+who+had+risen+through+the+examination+system,+spread+the+idea+that+China's+moral+standards+and+superior+culture+had+been+polluted+by+the+decadent+barbarian-blooded+aristocrats+from+the+north&hl=en&ei=e-WhTsjDIsmP0QHq5KG5BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Chinese%20scholar-officials%20from%20the%20southeast%2C%20who%20had%20risen%20through%20the%20examination%20system%2C%20spread%20the%20idea%20that%20China's%20moral%20standards%20and%20superior%20culture%20had%20been%20polluted%20by%20the%20decadent%20barbarian-blooded%20aristocrats%20from%20the%20north&f=false

Millet-Rice Sinitic expansion from north to south[edit]

Recently there have been edit in DNA analysis section where it talk about Sinitic expansion from north to south on the base on Sinitic connection to millet-rice. Although it is widely accepted that Sinitic expand from north to south,it is not under DNA analysis.

DNA section biased[edit]

The text in the DNA analyis is misleading

"Despite this, tests comparing the genetic profiles of northern Han, southern Han and southern natives determined that haplogroups O1b-M110, O2a1-M88 and O3d-M7, which are prevalent in southern natives, were only observed in some southern Hans (4% on average), but not in northern Hans. "

This would imply the paternal contribution of southern natives is only 4% when this is far from the truth. Y-DNA O1 (all subclades) is very common in (and perhaps more associated with) Dai populations. It is also very common in southern Chinese. Y-DNA O-P201 is very common in southern natives and is very common in Guangdong. There are many subclades of Y-DNA O1, O2 and O3 shared by both Dai and Han alike. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]


To that IP who keep on giving unreliable source and content[edit]

please read these:

and this:

In the process of the Mongols invasion of China proper, many Han Chinese were enslaved by the Mongols rulers.[1] According to Japanese historian Sugiyama Masaaki (杉山正明) and Funada Yoshiyuki (舩田善之), there were also certain number of Mongolian slaves owned by Han Chinese during Yuan. Moreover, there is no evidence that Han Chinese, who were considered people of the bottom of Yuan society by some research, were suffered a particularly cruel abuse.[2][3]

Also the source you had added to the page several times has nothing to do with "primae noctis in Yuan dynasty": [1]. It would be great if you can stop vandalising this page.

--No1lovesu (talk) 18:25, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

From Northern Zhou to Tang,Han chinese was ruled by Xianbei(鲜卑)[edit]

Xianbei soldiers((八柱国關隴集團) only merried only their relatives. Emperor Wen of Sui (隋文帝)had a Xianbei name's(金剛那羅延),when he was a child.Also,Emperor Gaozu of Tang Li Yuan was Xianbei ethnicity.He and Western Wei general Dugu Xin (獨孤信), who was of Xianbei ethnicity are close relatives.ethnicity.[4][5][6] (talk) 17:45, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Since you are so bad in English, read this: 維基百科:可靠來源. Also your sources have nothing to do with "Han Chinese were Xianbei's slaves".--No1lovesu (talk) 18:01, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
  1. ^ Rodriguez, Junius P. The Historical Encyclopedia of World Slavery. ABC-CLIO. p. 146. ISBN 9780874368857. Retrieved 20 March 2017. 
  2. ^ Sugiyama Masaaki(杉山正明), "忽必烈的挑战 (Large turn of world history by the challenge of Mongolia Kublai Khan)", 社会科学文献出版社, 2013, p44-46
  3. ^ Funada Yoshiyuki, "The Image of the Semu People: Mongols, Chinese, Southerners, and Various Other Peoples under the Mongol Empire", Historical and Philological Studies of China's Western Regions, p199-221, 2014(04)
  4. ^
  5. ^
  6. ^ |Sui and Tang Successors to the Xianbei Conquest Dynasties

Requested move 17 September 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. No clear consensus for a move - I think we should clear it up first that even though the nominator is correct with his logic, there needs to be substantial coverage to prove a COMMONNAME, whatever the RL situation cannot be the rationale for a page move even if the move is a step in the right direction. Also, I believe that some of the discourse here has raised questions on naming ethnic groups' articles and a discussion in that field is the way to go forward. QEDK () 14:32, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Han ChineseHan people
First, Han people is a ethnic group, although it account for a proportion of 92% of China's people, not all of it is "Chinese nationality", Han people is a ethnic group. There are also Han people of Japanese nationality, Han people of French nationality, Han people of U.S. nationality. So the correct usage is "Han people".
Second, we can refer to“Yamato people”,although “Yamato people” account for a proportion of 99% of Japan's people, we call it “Yamato people”,not “Yamato Japanese”.
MacArthur1945 (talk) 13:24, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

  • Support Per the well-reasoned nom. AusLondonder (talk) 15:48, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose Han people can also refer to Koreans (한, 韓, 韩, Korean: Han, Chinese: Hán, Vietnamese: Hàn) as well as Hän people in Yukon/Alaska. Timmyshin (talk) 18:22, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Yes, Han people is similar to Hän people people in Yukon/Alaska, so what? There are so many ethnic groups have the same name is English, but we cannot give a false name to "Han people" because of it. We can created a disambiguation page "Han people (disambiguation)" for the other meanings of Han people.--MacArthur1945 (talk) 04:04, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose WP:COMMONNAME. Contrast Google Books searches for "the Han Chinese" ("the" to avoid hits for Han Chinese language) vs. "the Han people"; former has more than 2x as many hits. Nominator presents no evidence that "Chinese" here implies anything about legal citizenship. (talk) 04:25, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Support. Han means "ethnic Chinese." So "Han Chinese" is redundant. OK, there are also ethnic Chinese in the U.S. and other countries. But you would not call them "Han Americans." Update. We have Tibetan people, Manchu people, Hakka people, Japanese people, Chinese people, and French people. The "people" suffix may look awkward, but it's the way Wikipedia does it. Great scott (talk) 17:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
What's a Han? Han is "the Chinese peoples especially as distinguished from non-Chinese (such as Mongolian) elements in the population," according to Merriam Webster.Oxford defines Han as "The dominant ethnic group in China."American Heritage says, "A member of the largest ethnic group of China, especially as distinguished from Manchus, Mongols, Huis, and other minority nationalities. Also called Chinese." Notice that all three of these dictionaries refer to "Han" and not to "Han Chinese." Great scott (talk) 14:22, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose: not an improvement. Khestwol (talk) 14:14, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Han doesn't mean "ethnic Chinese", no matter what popular English usage dictates. Such an expression simply doesn't exist in Chinese. The expression "Han American" is uncommon because Americans don't know about ethnic groups in China. You can't compare different countries because every case is unique. Moreover, "the way Wikipedia does it" is a weak argument. You are mostly arguing about form, but you are avoiding the matter itself owing to the lack of historical background knowledge. By the way, Hakka people are Han too. The motive behind this request can be interpreted as political. By eliminating the word "Chinese", you further the non-existence of China as an entity. This is not an exaggeration since it's something certain people want. --Explosivo (talk) 06:34, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

@Explosivo:Wowowow......You do see that we are mostly Chinese people here right? This is a very broad accusation you just made. I gave up man, This is getting weird. Have you not see Macarthur1945's userpage? How could he have any "political" stuff. If no body says that he wants to eliminate China, then according to his word, we say that we do not know if he wants to do it or not. Your accusation is hardly related to the current topic.----損齋 (talk) 17:45, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

  • Oppose: Actually sometimes that Han as ethnic group but for a long history it represents Chinese. And the name comes from the Han Dynasty, just like the Americans now, as it has the name Chinese now. So would Africans American just call the African? I don't think so. Because throughout history, the African Americans might have been very different from the Africans that are still residing Africa. That's why I think it's important that having a suffix Chinese for Han people. Devil-lightening(talk)
  • Oppose. The common name is Han Chinese and there seems no challenge to that, just suggestions that we should correct the English language. Using Wikipedia for this purpose is simply and clearly forbidden. Andrewa (talk) 01:08, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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