Talk:Haram

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Gelatin[edit]

Is gelatine considered haraam by all Muslim scholars? I have read of a contradictory opinion... See: Salafitalk- Ruling on Gelatin--Nabilqureshi 05:31, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Gelatin / Gelatine - haram if obtained from pork or non-halal meat sources - the source is sometimes mentioned on the ingredients list. A vegetarian alternative is available.

Depends. Gelatin, when a chemical change happens in its creation (which is how Gelatin is made in the West), is considered Halal by the majority of scholars; both Sunni and Shia. Armyrifle 21:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

References needed on harām[edit]

"The category of harām also includes all manner of forbidden behaviours, from adultery to siding with a non-Muslim power against Muslims in war."

This is very interesting and I would think that references (Q'uran or other teachings) would be useful.

Yea, I was just going to ask for that as well. I think the first sentence is correct but I really doubt the second one.--Zhang Lmao 07:48, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Move proposal[edit]

Proposal: move to Haram. This is the normal romanization used in English-speaking regions and the first letter of the current title shows up as an empty square box. Badagnani 02:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. WP:UE dictates that all article titles should use the Roman alphabet. Korossyl 11:15, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
The move would not be to Haram (as that is an article on the "sanctuary") but Haraam (which is a re-direct to this article). To be consistent I would also suggest proposing to move Halal to Halaal. → AA (talkcontribs) — 11:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I've been bold and seeing as there have been no objections, made the move. → AA (talkcontribs) — 12:42, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Why in the world would you make a movie out of this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.38.251.60 (talk) 12:37, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Adultery[edit]

It is not adultery to have sex with "(the captives) whom their right hands possess". What does that mean? DHR (talk) 02:11, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


Muslim men are to emulate Muhammad, and Muhammad had a countless number of slaves [male and female] that were obtained from waging war on his neighbors. A Muslim religiously, can have sex with a female non-Muslim war captive during a time of war and Allah will be pleased with him for doing it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_malakat_aymanukum 107.222.205.242 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:32, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

"holy" in the lead[edit]

Hans Wehr's Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic (4th edition, p 201) gives this definition:

حرام ḥarām pl حرم ḥurum forbidden, interdicted, prohibited, unlawful; s.th. forbidden, offense, sin; inviolable, taboo; sacred, sacrosanct; cursed, accursed

The definition is followed, as usual for a significant entry, by a long list of phrases and idioms using the word. Of these the only two mentioning "holy" explicitly are الشهر الحرام, "the Holy Month Muharram" and المسجد الحرام, "the Holy Mosque in Mecca". There is also البيت الحرام, the Kaaba.

Note that "holy" does not occur at all in the definition list. The closest is "sacred" or "sacrosanct", but even then the examples indicate the use of "sacred" or "sacrosanct" in such a way as to imply some form of restriction or taboo.

This does not appear to me sufficient to justify including "holy" as a meaning in the lead, although some of the above might possibly be included in the article body.

--NSH001 (talk) 14:01, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Just change it from "holy" to "sacred".--ZealousGnome (talk) 14:43, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
I need to check on a few things, but there is a difference between حرام and الحرام. I dont know if حرام without the definite particle ever means sacred, but I need to check a few books. Ill get back to this shortly. nableezy - 12:29, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

NPOV removed[edit]

The article changed significantly since Dec. 2007, I've removed the NPOV template, please use {{POV-section}} or better yet {{POV-statement}} for statements and detail issues here. This will help address them quickly. - RoyBoy 00:17, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

"Sinful"?[edit]

According to what source is the primary or basic meaning of this word supposedly "sinful"? That term doesn't appear anywhere in the extended Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic definition of the word (see section "holy in the lead" above). AnonMoos (talk) 02:04, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, sinful according to Islam, of course. But that's basically the obvious correspondence. Though the etymological information here given says that the original meaning was not "sinful" but "accursed" (note btw. that in Latin too, there is one word that means both "sanctified, sacred" and "accursed").--2001:A60:159E:D401:8576:99E6:7A00:1917 (talk) 15:40, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Maybe -- "sinful" basically means "having a propensity to commit or cause sins", while حرام has a secondary meaning which can refer to an act which would be considered a sin if committed. I don't see how the English and Arabic words are very natural translation equivalents... AnonMoos (talk) 04:11, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
No, "sinful" simply means that something is a sin, its etymology (of "sin-ful") nonwithstanding, as in: adultery is sinful. Seems you're just mistaken about how the word "sinful" is used.--2001:A60:15F6:B801:28A1:6385:1B76:F94F (talk) 16:18, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
Not really; in English it's more natural to say that someone who commits adultery or murder is "sinful", while adultery and murder in the abstract are "sins". "Adultery is sinful" basically means that insofar as a person has a propensity to commit adultery, that person is in danger of committing a sin... AnonMoos (talk) 23:27, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
While, in fact, English is not my mother tongue, I'm nevertheless quite confident that - to specify - at least in Catholic jargon, "sinful" is used precisely about actions, to say that they are sins. Murder is sinful; the murderer is not said to be "sinful", but said to be "a sinner" (or even more precisely, "one who has sinned" - if he walks straightly out of valid Confession, he is ontologically not a sinner, but a just man).--2001:A60:15B9:A001:85E4:350E:2404:92C0 (talk) 23:56, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Tattoo[edit]

It has been put under being 'haraam'. I dont want to get in to a debate about the reasons why it can be haraam or halaal. Some people say it isn't because it is the same as wearing henna.. However the henna is not permanent? Its haraam becasue you can not perform wudhu as the water can not reach the skin, the ink is under the skin? Just saying it should be changed or referenced to whom regard it as haraam — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.134.123 (talk) 17:50, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

S.A.W.?[edit]

Recently, 70.51.73.166 added "(S.A.W.)" after each reference to Muhammad. Peace be upon him (Islam)

Is that reasonable?

As a non-muslim, I would be hypocritical uttering that phrase. And hence disrespectful.

Some authorities claim the short form in itself is disrespectful.

Do all other Wikipedia articles mentioning the prophet's name need editing? --DHR (talk) 20:39, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Such post-honorifics are against Wikipedia style, except in direct quotes (the policy is somewhere under WP:MOS)... AnonMoos (talk) 04:14, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Planned Contributions[edit]

We're students from Colgate University in the Islamic Jurisprudence class and we plan on editing this page. Our contributions are listed below:

  • Consistent spelling of haraam throughout the article
  • Providing more relevant and scholarly sources
  • Providing more general information on the subject
  • Adding information on the four other categories of behavior (fard, mustahabb, mubah, makruh)
  • Offering interpretations of the Quranic verses provided on the page
  • Providing cultural context of the term haraam
  • Addressing controversial nature of haraam

Sjenks14 (talk) 14:09, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Merge with list[edit]

The article List of haraam products has been tagged with multiple issues for nearly five years -- since January 2010. That list is not overly long; moving the sourced material into this article seems like it would be an improvement over the present state of affairs. Comments? YBG (talk) 07:53, 2 December 2014 (UTC)