Talk:Haredi Judaism

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"significant number of secular Jews"[edit]

I'm a little curious about the line:

"Their numbers have also been boosted by a significant number of secular Jews adopting a Haredi lifestyle" The cited sources are from the 90's early 00's. As such, I think its about time for an update.

From one of the sources used in this article (which is old): "The number of baalei teshuvah, "penitents" from secular backgrounds who become Ultraorthodox Jews, amounts to a few thousand, mainly between the years 1975-87, and is modest compared with the natural growth of the haredim; but the phenomenon has generated great interest in Israel."

In regards to the term: "boosted by a significant number," what does it actually mean? The previous source stated a number of thousand. However, out of 1.3-1.5 million, even 10 thousand is less than .7-.8% of the population. Also keep in mind that the particular source stated the period was mainly 75-87... a span of 12 years! So the average growth rate during those years was actually very very small.

As such, I believe "boasted by a significant number" is misleading. I did a quick search and didn't find any specific statistics on this topic from 2008-2013, likely in part due to it being so hard to define and measure. Even if the number today is many times that rate, it likely pales in comparison to the natural growth rate of the community.

I suggest changing the sentence to something like "Their numbers have also increased by a modest, yet notable, number of secular Jews adopting a Haredi lifestyle." If I don't hear of any nay sayers, I'm going to make the change sometime next week. If someone has a better sentence than mine with regards to this issue, feel free to through it out there. I'd also like to see some good sources, particularly if we can get some good statistics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by T59Man (talkcontribs) 12/Nov/13

Ultra-Orthodoxy considered "pejorative"[edit]

Debresser reverted my edit changing the wording "the term "ultra-Orthodox", however, is considered pejorative by many" to "some." As best I can tell, while there are four sources (of questionable reliability) cited in the article that refer to the term as pejorative, none say that "many" consider it as such. Thus it seems to be a bit of WP:SYNTH going on, unless someone can share a source that characterizes it the same way. Instead, I've found a Washington Post article that says "Many of the Haredim do not care what others call them," so based on this, I've changed it back to "some." Open to hearing other sources of course. FuriouslySerene (talk) 05:14, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Sounds okay to me. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 09:27, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
Not a big deal to me. If there are 4 sources, that sounds like more like "many" to me. In addition, there is no doubt in my mind, that the statement using "many" is actually true. Debresser (talk) 14:09, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
"Some" seems fine to me, especially now that the alternative is now supported by source. AlexEng(TALK) 18:08, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
  • None of the sources say either "some" or "many". Debresser (talk) 16:53, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Question about male clothing[edit]

Several photographs show men wearing coats with buttons on left side, when right is usual for men. Info on the background to this could be useful in the article. Rcbutcher (talk) 09:39, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Sharp question. HarediHassidic men wear clothes right-over-left, what is nowadays considered female style. Debresser (talk) 16:49, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
nope, only chassidim. Regular charedim wear normal buttons.Sir Joseph (talk) 22:59, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
You're absolutely right. Didn't think this through. Debresser (talk) 23:06, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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Ultra Orthodox and the Internet[edit]

The intent of this talk it to answer the vagueness of the Haredi Judaism Wiki article, under the Practices and beliefs section, with regards to restrictions on technology within the Jewish Orthodox sects, and more specifically the Hasidic group. If there is enough information, a new section will be suggested called “Haredi and Technology” with the goal of elaborating on the presented topics below. This will be done through a factual point of view quoting reputable sources. Nathaniel Deutsch, in the Contemporary Jewry, wrote the article “The Forbidden Fork, the Cell Phone Holocaust, and Other Haredi Encounters with Technology”. In which he presents the idea that the strictness over the use of technology and specifically the internet put forth by the Orthodox governing body's is there to retain members. His belief is that the Elders feel the use of the internet can, “encourage individualism among users, while circumventing communal surveillance”.[1] The fear of the internet drawing “large numbers of young people away from the Hasidic fold”, was particularly prevalent when in 2006, an “asifa of rabbis was held to discuss the dangers of the internet and to endorse a ban on its use outside of the workplace”.[2][3] Deutsch counters this point with the example of the kosher cell phone, “Haredi users could simply purchase regular phones and manually disable the offending features, themselves, or they could simply ignore those features entirely. [...] Instead, however, the logic of the humra requires that a kosher cell phone be developed and, concomitantly, that non-kosher phones be ban”.[4]

Alex567123 (talk) 10:21, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Deutsch, Nathaniel. “The Forbidden Fork, the Cell Phone Holocaust, and Other Haredi Encounters with Technology.” Contemporary Jewry, vol. 29, no. 1, 2009, 8.
  2. ^ Deutsch, 10.
  3. ^ Deutsch, 5.
  4. ^ Deutsch, 9.