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I found this in the article: "Howard Zinn, in A People's History of the United States also pointed towards Schnaubelt, suggesting he was a provocateur, posing as an anarchist, who threw the bomb so police would have a pretext to arrest leaders of Chicago's anarchist movement."
I think it is safe to say that Howard Zinn is not a good source especially as the source for the above from his book is not clear. The original source should be used. Zedshort (talk) 17:33, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
Your argument is invalid, Zedshort. Zinn, a professional historian, is a perfectly good source, and citing Avrich, another professional historian (and one whose books were all published by academic presses), who cites Zinn is also perfectly acceptable.
I don't happen to have a copy of Zinn's People's History, and the version that's accessible on Google Books isn't paginated so I can't cite it as a source in the article. But if you're interested, here is a link to the relevant page. — Malik ShabazzTalk/Stalk 02:37, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
The argument by Zedshort has merit. Zinn is the lone author suggesting Schnaubelt to be a police-hired provocateur (and it was only a suggestion, not an elaborated argument). Zinn's failure to cite a source is thus especially relevant. Schnaubelt is widely depicted by other historians as being a firmly committed anarchist with close ties to the Haymarket defendants. Given the level of contention about the Haymarket Affair among historians and on Wikipedia, including each divergent view, on each point, by any professional historian, would make for a dizzying article. Wikipedia guidelines on consensus have previously, and quite famously, been deemed applicable to this article.
Marginalia appropriate for deletion. AECwriter 14:52, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
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I have extended the biography of Thomas Owen, my Great Great Uncle. I don't have the complete references to hand (newspaper clippings from the US and UK held on microfilm in Chicago Historical Society, Chicago public library and the National Library of Wales). I recently loaned them to my brother who has mislaid them. A picture of his tombstone is relevant too.
I don't think he threw the bomb although most of the older generation of townsfolk in Builth Wells thought so. I do think that he was very closely involved. Closely enough that the authorities preferred him dead to talking. His meeting in Pittsburg with Lucy Parsons may have betrayed his location to the Pinkertons. Certainly after his death, despite lucrative business, his brothers left the USA never to return. On his return from the USA at the age of 40 my great grandfather was able to retire in style by local standards. Thomas was not driven to anarchism by personal poverty. My grandfather, his nephew,born later, was sure that he was shot at by the Pinkerton and fell due to the fright.
Philip ap Buallt (talk) 19:43, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
Hello, Philip ap Buallt, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your fascinating addition to the article. Wikipedia content is supposed to be based on reliable sources. I think most of the Chicago Historical Society's material related to Haymarket is available online. (There are links in the "External links" section of the article.) I'll see if I can find material that supports what you added. Unfortunately, Wikipedia policy allows any editor to remove it if it doesn't have sources, but we can add it back when we find sources. Again, welcome and thank you. — Malik ShabazzTalk/Stalk 03:47, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
Hello Malik,
thank you for the feedback. All the detailed material is on the newspaper microfilm files at the Chicago Public Library and the National Library of Wales rather than the Chicago Historical Society where Thomas Owen is mentioned without any detail by a couple of authors in their books. I gathered the material during a visit to Chicago in 1992. I know I need to be more explicit about the newspaper articles. I lent the material to my brother so I don't have it to hand. It won't be on the internet unless the microfilm has been digitized. I have looked. It doesn't seem to be. This is new material that has not entered the debate so could you leave it up for a couple of weeks so that any parties interested enough to follow the page have a chance to pick it up? I might even have the proper references in place by then anyway. I know it has to be secondary so I can't include Thomas's letter home but the newspapers are all papers of record.
Philip ap Buallt (talk) 11:43, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
It's not 1992 anymore. Many papers of record once on microfilm are now available online, if behind a moderate paywall (free for 7 days). Thus I was able to track down most of my references or equivalents. I will rewrite the piece with the new references but first I must cook supper. Philip ap Buallt (talk) 19:36, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
