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- 1 The Original Language of Hazara People is Hazaragi.
- 2 Number of Hazaras in Afghanistan
- 3 Syrian and Iraqi populations
- 4 Etymology
- 5 Do the Khazars have any relation to the Hazara people?
- 6 Hazara are Persian
- 7 Requested move 5 May 2015
- 8 Genetics
- 9 Persian-speaking
- 10 RfC: Should sections on genetics be removed from pages on ethnic groups?
- 11 "Mongolian"?
- 12 User:Husayn Hazara and edit warring since 28 July 2016
The Original Language of Hazara People is Hazaragi.
The original language of Hazara people is Hazaragi (Dari, the official language for Persian in Afganistan). So Hazaragi should be emphasized there, which is spoken by the minority of Hazaragi people. Let me give an example. Azerbaijani is a dialect of Turkish language, but we say that their language is Azerbaijani instead of Turkish. The same way, Hazaragi is the original langauge of Hazara people (we can't say their language "Persian"); Hazaragi is a dialect of Persian language. -- BozokluAdam (talk) 20:57, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- (Lysozym), I observed that you have changed the article without a consensus. In the meantime, you claim that the native language of the Hazara is the Persian language? Check the article Hazaragi language. It says Hazaragi (Persian: هزارگی ) is a dialect of the Persian language spoken by the Hazara people, most of all in an area known as the Hazarajat. Please be objective. -- BozokluAdam (talk) 21:04, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Hazaragi is a DIALECT, NOT a language. By definition, the Hazara are a PERSIAN-SPEAKING PEOPLE of whom many (but NOT all) speak the Hazaragi dialects of Bamiyan. Educated Hazaras, namely those who live in larger cities, work in educational or governmental institutions, do NOT speak Hazaragi. --Lysozym (talk) 16:31, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
- So, can you say Azeri are a TURKISH-SPEAKING PEOPLE in the same way? Because Azeri is a dialect of Oghuz branch of Turkish language. Hazaragi might be a dialect, but it's different than Persian in several aspects. And it's spoken by native people of Hazara. BozokluAdam (talk) 16:38, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
- Of cousre the Azeri are a Turkish-speaking people. In fact, this is a very good example. Because the Azeri and the Turks of Anatolia have the same position within the Altaic ethno-linguistic group that Hazaras have within the Iranian group: a people who were slowly but progressively assimilated. The ancestors of modern Turks and Azeris were Kurds, Greeks, and other Non-Turkish people who gradually adopted a Turkic language and mixed with the dominant and ruling people (in this case Turkish nomads from Central Asia). The case of Hazaras is slightly different: they were assimilated by the native people with whom they mixed. The Hazaras are as much "Persian" as modern Anatolian Turks are "Turks". Who cares what the "native language" of Anatolian Turks was 200 years ago?! Modern Turks learn Turkish at home - it is their first language and that's what makes them "Turks". Why should the case of Hazaras be any different?! Besides that, I really doubt that you are an expert on the subject. You do not speak or understand Persian or any of its dialects. Australian English is also much different from Texican slang, yet both are English. Alemannic German is almost incomprehendable to native German-speakers from Northern Germany, yet no one would claim that the peopel of Stuttgart are a "separate ethnic group" who speak "Alemannic". Of course many speak Alemannic, but it is not more than a unique dialect of German. The same goes to Hazaras, Tajiks, Iranian Persians, Aymaq, etc - they all speak different dialects of the same language. The written form of all dialects is the same - it is standardized. Hazaras living in Iran have by now motsly adopted the Iranian dialects. Here is an example: Elaha Sorour, a Hazara singer, speaks with an Iranian dialect even in interviews with Dari-speakers. --Lysozym (talk) 16:54, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
- So, that's a way of Pan-Iranism, bringing forward such a ridiculous claim that "the ancestors of modern Turks and Azeris were Kurds, Greeks, and other Non-Turkish people who gradually adopted a Turkic language and mixed with the dominant and ruling people (in this case Turkish nomads from Central Asia)". Oh, I notice that you, Persian nationalists, should be afraid of 38 million Turks of Iran, who can revolt against Iran, in a possible military intervention of the USA, Israel or Turkey. So you are claiming ridiculously that Azeri Turks were of Persian, Kurdish or Greek. And these claims are baseless political views of you. That's a kind of Pan-Iranism to melt all ethnic groups, even Turks, under the Persian ethnicity. I don't believe that you're an objective Wikipedian. Your old changes, by Tajik, also display that you're trying to sell your nationalistic thoughts by editing the articles baselessly or intentionally. Here's a scientific encyclopedia where the scientific findings are spoken and discussed, not your personal thoughts based on ideology. BozokluAdam (talk) 17:27, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I can't see the statement "the ancestors of modern Turks and Azeris were Kurds, Greeks, and other Non-Turkish people" anything ridiculous. The Turkish migration is a well studied historical facts, start from the Seljuk turkish empire and the defeat of the Byzantium army in the year of AD1071. however, even after the battle, the influx of turkish tribes only contributed small part of the ancestors of today's turkish populations. Also, claim that the Hazara people are turks is pan-turkic theory, there aren't historical records that said some turkic tribes migrated to Afghanistan. however according to the ancient chinese books, there were mongolic people living in there long before the Ghengis khan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apzat (talk • contribs) 09:25, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
^No ancient chinese authors mention that nor any book i know of. Mongols and Turks came from East Asia from the Altai Mountains and settled in Central Asia overpowering the native iranian population. As for Afghanistan, it has always been iranian dominated and eastern iranian people like the Pashtuns are native there and no recorded migration of turks and mongols have been recorded there. Hazaras came with Genghis Khan during the 12th century and their genetic tests agree with this. Akmal94 (talk) 20:25, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
Number of Hazaras in Afghanistan
The introduction is misleading because it states that Hazaras make up 9% of the population of Afghanistan, which is the latest Factbook (CIA) estimate. However, it also states 18% and cites a Pakistani guy, Kamal Hayder, who just mentioned this but without providing a reference , and an outdated 1997 Library of Congress Country Studies report , which is based on the 1997 Factbook (CIA) estimate that has been changed to 9% since 2004.--Nasir Ghobar (talk) 15:08, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
- Kamal Hyder likely came here to Wikipedia on 12 November 2011, saw the 18% and added that number in his news report and then Ehussain cited Hyder's news report as an additional reference the next day.  However, the 18% is the outdated 1996 Factbook estimate and we should remove this because it is misleading, it contradicts the latest Factbook 9%.--Nasir Ghobar (talk) 02:56, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Don't you guys know how to count ??? Why there is 7.7 M Hazaras in Afghanistan ??? That will make 26 % of Afghan population into Hazaras !!! The CIA Factbook says 9 %, which will make 2.7 M ! Even if you count 18 %, which is a ridiculous Pakistani lie, that would still not be 7.7 M !!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 00:39, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Syrian and Iraqi populations
The Etymology section gives the conventional derivation (Persian translation of the Mongol word for "thousand"), with a source to back it up. There then follows a length (and non-NPOV) passage (added 22 Aug 2013) stating that this theory is weak, and claiming categorically that they are really named after on of Ghengis Khan's brothers - all without any source to back this up. It would be within policy to excise the whole alternative etymology, but I don't like deleting unsupported but seemingly plausible stuff without first checking with those more knowledgable. Does anyone have any RS to support this etymology, or should it be removed? Iapetus (talk) 12:16, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Do the Khazars have any relation to the Hazara people?
Hazara are Persian
They have Mongoloid phenotype, but in every aspect they're are Persian. There is no "pure Persian" left in the world. Anyone who speaks Persian as his native language is Persian. Pure Aryan Persians are dead and extinct a long time ago. --22.214.171.124 (talk) 23:07, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
- The Iranian peoples don't think that Hazaras are Iranians/Persians. View of the Hazaras same. The most of the Hazaras identify themselves as Mongol or Turkic. Own ehnic identity of them just "Hazara", not Mongol, not Turkic and not Iranians. Myeirs (talk) 15:40, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Requested move 5 May 2015
. Where West Meets East: "The Complex mtDNA Landscape of the Southwest and Central Asian Corridor: A good, although surprising, example of concordance between the two systems is the Hazara, who claim to be the direct male-line descendants of Genghis Khan’s army. The presence and time depth of the Y-chromosomal haplogroup C* (xC3c) in the Hazara, along with its absence from neighboring populations, has been interpreted as the genetic legacy of Genghis Khan and his male relatives (Qamar et al. 2002; Zerjal et al. 2003). Our results indicate that the Hazara are also characterized by very high frequencies of eastern Eurasian mtDNAs (35%, table 2, fig. 1), which are virtually absent from bordering populations, suggesting that the male descendants of Genghis Khan, or other Mongols".
In the heartland of Eurasia: the multilocus genetic landscape of Central Asian populations: "Our study confirms the results of Li et al's study that cluster the Hazara population with Central Asian populations, rather than Mongolian populations, which is consistent with ethnological studies.(Dupaigne B: L'artisanat Hazâra; in: Paysage du centre de l'Afghanistan – Paysages naturels, paysages culturels. CEREDAF: Paris, 2010, pp 212–222.) Our results further extend these findings, as we show that the Hazaras are closer to Turkic-speaking populations from Central Asia than to East-Asian or Indo-Iranian populations". Li JZ, Absher DM, Tang H et al: Worldwide human relationships inferred from genome-wide patterns of variation. Science 2008 (myers.hudsonalpha.org/documents/LiAbsher-SOM-HGDP.pdf) "Hazara from Pakistan and Uyghur from Xinjiang...are close genetic neighbors, suggesting a common ancestry despite their current geographic separation". Li JZ, Absher DM, Tang H et al: Worldwide human relationships inferred from genome-wide patterns of variation. Science 2008; 319: "Hazara and Uyghur share a same profile of combined South/Central Asian, East Asian, and European ancestry".
: Eastern Eurasian - 43%: Haplogroup C-M217 (C3) 33,3%; N 1,6%; Q 6,6%; O 1,6%. (C-M217: 40% - Sengupta S, Zhivotovsky LA, King R. (2006) Polarity and Temporality of High-Resolution Y-Chromosome Distributions in India Identify Both Indigenous and Exogenous Expansions and Reveal Minor Genetic Influence of Central Asian Pastoralists). .
Western Eurasian: Haplogroup J-M172 (J2) 26,6%; R1a 6,6%; E1b 5%; G2a 3,3%. Haplogroup_R-M173#Subclade_distribution 32% (Sengupta 2005). J2: 20,6% (Haber M, Platt DE, Ashrafian Bonab M, Youhanna SC, Soria-Hernanz DF, et al. "Afghanistan's Ethnic Groups Share a Y-Chromosomal Heritage Structured by Historical Events", 2012). B-M60: "In Afghanistan, Haplogroup B-M60 has been found in 5.1% (3/59) of a sample of Hazara males"(Haber et al, 2012). 126.96.36.199 (talk) 15:49, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
The sentence read "The Hazaras are a Persian-speaking people" to distinguish the Hazara from Turkic speaking peoples from the same region. As with most Persian dialects, the language is called Farsi by speakers, and occasionally Dari. Hazaragi is only the name of a dialect. -- Secondat of Orange (talk) 06:08, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
RfC: Should sections on genetics be removed from pages on ethnic groups?
If you're interested, participate and write your comment here: RfC: Should sections on genetics be removed from pages on ethnic groups? --Zyma (talk) 06:42, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
User:Husayn Hazara and edit warring since 28 July 2016
@Husayn Hazara: Why you don't read our edit summaries and WP rules. Please stop edit warring and your disruptive edits. If you HAVE reliable sources for your stats, just add them to article. DO NOT remove/manipulate current referenced content. You can discuss your concerns on talk page instead of non-stop edit warring. --Wario-Man (talk) 07:42, 15 August 2016 (UTC)