Talk:Heart

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”Diseases of the heart are primarily treated by cardiologists“[edit]

I'm really not too sure about this statement, currently in the lead. At least in my neck of the woods, I'd say general practitioners carry a fair share of the load. In addition cardiothoracic surgeons are involved in a lot of surgical management, and intensivists in the management of cardiac arrest and tamponade. Cardiologists are indeed specialists of the heart, but I am not sure if they are the ones that 'primarily' treat disease. Perhaps a better wording would be:

Doctors that specialise in the heart are called cardiologists. Many other medical professionals are involved in treating diseases of the heart, including doctors such as general practitioners, cardiothoracic surgeons and intensivists, and allied health practitioners including physiotherapists and dieticians.

If there are no objections I may make this change in a day or two. --Tom (LT) (talk) 14:06, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done added to 'clinical significance'
Did another rewrite so that the lede has the same content. -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 16:57, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Evolution?[edit]

I came here looking for some detail on the evolution of the heart, how it came about, what drove the development, and so on, but there's not a lot in the article on that. Maybe something that could be added. Thanks!  — Amakuru (talk) 07:15, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Merge sections[edit]

Is there any reason that sinoatrial node has a separate section from electrical conduction section - info on sa node is repeated from conduction, and other info in sa node section is better placed in conduction ? --Iztwoz (talk) 21:43, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Not an ideal title. However I was trying to group together information about how a cardiac action potential is generated. I'm not sure what section this should go it. I guess a section "Creation of a heartbeat". I put it in heart rate because it is related to the heartrate rather than conduction of an existing action potential. I hope that makes sense... what are your thoughts? --Tom (LT) (talk) 07:50, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
I still think that SA node info would be better placed in elect conduction. Influences could be changed to heart rate. Also think that acton potential belongs to elect conduction. Also, I've been looking through ref for info on 'without ....innervation HR would be 100bpm can find nothing? Other heart related pages make no mention of this or I should say I cannot find any - info from cardiovascular centres says innervation only occurs when stimulated. Any light available? --Iztwoz (talk) 21:24, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Illustrations[edit]

The caption for the GIF "3D echocardiogram" [Apikal4D.gif] is wrong. It describes "right", "top left", and "top right" portions, when there is only one portion on the right. This makes me sad. (I feel that calling all "wikipedians", or contributors, "editors" is a mistake -- WP desperately needs real editors.) I could guess the correction, but I don't do that. Sadsaque (talk) 12:51, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Heart/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jclemens (talk · contribs) 05:35, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well written:
1a. the prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct.
1b. it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. Lead identified as long enough, but not comprehensively addressing all portions of the article.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
2b. all in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines. A couple of dead links have been identified for revision.
2c. it contains no original research.
2d. it contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism. No copyvio identified with automated tools--single hit appears to be a mirror of a prior version of the article, complete with Wikipedia markup.
3. Broad in its coverage:
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. No issues noted.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by images:
6a. images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content. All reviewed, no defects or concerns found.
6b. images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. Excellent selection.
7. Overall assessment.

Initial Thoughts[edit]

  • Lead delves too much into some of the topics, but does not touch on everything in the entire article, and it's already pretty large. This is going to be a challenge to rewrite well, so I wanted to highlight this up front. Jclemens (talk) 05:58, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
  • this shows 2 dead links, and ref #4 also appears to have a 404 output that is not correctly detected by that script. Jclemens (talk) 06:20, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
  • Lead and body differ on number of chambers in a fish heart (2 vs. 4). Jclemens (talk) 06:20, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Firstly, thanks very much for taking up this mammoth review of a very complex organ. I'm reassured when I see the huge amount of reviews, barnstars and GA nominations that this will be a thorough and systematic review. Please take your time and be systematic and I'll try and address your concerns as we go. If you could be specific when you mention something that will make this easier to address. IF you're not sure about something you can ask here or at WT:MED or WT:ANAT for some help. Iztwoz and CFCF were both significant editors to this article and may help with the review. I look forward to your review :) --Tom (LT) (talk) 08:50, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Heh, or I'll just break out my own Netter's or related works. I'm not a zoologist or an anatomist, but I am a practicing clinician and have access to a wide variety of professional medical resources on the topic. Jclemens (talk) 09:02, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

First detailed text read-through[edit]

Lead and Structure section[edit]

  • "the human heart is located in the middle compartment of the mediastinum in the chest"
  • "In a healthy heart blood flows one way through the heart" Wouldn't there be a comma after the first heart?
  • I think describing all of four-chambered heart circulation and mechanical action in paragraph 3 of the lead is likely to be a good spot to trim, in order to make room to cover the parts of the article not currently summarized in the lead. I note that the entire paragraph seems to be referring to the mammalian/bird heart.
  • Structure section: first sentence needs to specify human heart.
  • You might note that human lung has only two lobes on the left vs. three on the right, rather than just noting its smaller volume... or you might not. I didn't know that until I took A&P for the first time and thought it was really cool, so that may just be my subjectivity.
  • "The heart is supplied by the coronary circulation" Supplied with what? Its own myocardial blood supply, obviously, but the sentence reads a bit awkwardly since coronary circulation gets its own section later, while the pericardium is discussed immediately and in detail.
  • "A stethoscope can be placed directly over the apex so that the heartbeats can be counted." That's funny, I can count heartbeats adequately with my stethoscope placed pretty much anywhere in the anterior thorax. Is there something this is trying to get across I'm missing?
  • Unlike the other important structures of the heart, I really don't see a unified paragraph anywhere describing the pericardium. References to pericardial structure, function, and pathology seem to be scattered throughout the article.
  • "Cardiac muscle tissue has autorhythmicity, the unique ability to initiate a cardiac action potential at a fixed rate – spreading the impulse rapidly from cell to cell to trigger the contraction of the entire heart. This autorhythmicity is still modulated by the endocrine and nervous systems.[7]" This is absolutely true, but are we at the right level here? How does a less educated reader get that cardiac muscle tissue tends to beat despite the lack of external stimulus? Are we writing at too high of a grade level here?
  • Atria and ventricles should be introduced in the overall 'structure' section before being referred to in the 'heart wall' subsection.
  • Valves "These muscles prevent the valve from falling back into the atrium." How about adding 'during ventricular contraction'? Or just leaving this off as the entire action of the papillary muscles is covered two paragraphs down in more detail?
  • pulmonary valve, pulmonary artery, and aortic valve are all wikilinked. Should we not also wikilink aorta for symmetry?
  • in the Right Heart section, there's a pretty detailed discussion of perinatal changes in fetal circulation. I get that the remnant parts are appropriate to discuss in the context of landmarks of the right atrium, but I wonder if, like the pericardium, fetal circulation would benefit from an entire section discussing it in detail.
  • "While most ventricular filling occurs while the atria are relaxed, they do demonstrate a contractile phase when they actively pump blood into the ventricles just prior to ventricular contraction." So is this about the right heart or both? It's in the right heart section, but it also makes it seem like the 'atrial kick' is just an afterthought.
  • Similar to the above, do we need to discuss the action of the chordae tendineae and papillary muscles again? The 'right heart' section is a subsection to 'valves', which is where I believe the action should be discussed in most detail.
  • "When the right ventricle contracts, it ejects blood into the pulmonary artery, which branches into the left and right pulmonary arteries that carry it to each lung." I know the antecedent reference is likely correct, but wouldn't 'that blood' be clearer than 'it'?
  • Why are we discussing the pulmonary valve yet again at the end of the right heart section? We just covered it above.
  • Left Heart "Only the left atrial appendage contains pectinate muscles. " Which do what? Actually, I can't even tell from following that wikilink, which 1) seems to contradict that statement, and 2) doesn't actually mention what they DO do.
  • Coronary circulation section seems to be a bit terse overall.
  • Final thoughts on the Structure section and its subsections: We have a lot of overlap and redundancy here, and so a lot of things have scattered mentions throughout, rather than concentrated discussion in one place. It probably is about the right length overall, but could stand to be reorganized, a few redundancies trimmed, and a few things fleshed out a bit. Again, the whole section only refers to the human heart, which I get that the article is using as a baseline and discussing how other non-human hearts differ. I haven't gone through the references in detail, but really have just been concentrating on the flow of topics.

I will try to do at least one additional section per day, but will be in class for the next few days. I think work on this section is going to be relatively self-contained, so if my questions prompt changes, feel free to start in on them. Jclemens (talk) 19:51, 27 July 2016 (UTC)