Talk:Heliocentrism

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Former good article Heliocentrism was one of the Natural sciences good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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September 3, 2004 Featured article candidate Not promoted
June 13, 2006 Good article nominee Listed
July 17, 2009 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article
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Greek[edit]

every article here on eng wiki starts with greece. i am afraid you got it wrong this time. the earliest notion that the sun is a center of this system is found in babylonian astronomy. oh wait, is babylon greek too?89.205.2.27 (talk) 15:28, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps 89.205.2.27 can produce proof that the Babylonians used a heliocentric system before that of Aristarchus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.160.31 (talk) 14:19, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
Pythagoras was putting forward a non-geocentric model of the visible universe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.160.31 (talk) 10:11, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Pythagoras seems to travelled, but perhaps not to Babylon.
See Pythagorean astronomical system. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.160.31 (talk) 10:28, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

86.177.160.31, I can produce proof that the Babylonians used a heliocentric system before that of Aristarchus. I think that statements of the following sources would add some useful missing information. Firstly, Babylonian heliocentric ideas predate Aristarchus (authored by the cosmologist who graduated Harvard) and secondly, geocentrism lasted until the 17th century. Although the title "We've Never Been Alone: A History of Extraterrestrial Intervention" is a little irrelevant the quote is from the passage "Who Invented Mathematics and the Sciences".
Ward, Paul Von (2011). We've Never Been Alone: A History of Extraterrestrial Intervention. Hampton Roads Publishing. p. 174. ISBN 161283177X, 9781612831770 Check |isbn= value: invalid character (help). A little later, Aristarchus, credited with first proposing the heliocentric theory of the universe, was only restating ideas long lost in Mesopotamia. 
Arp, Robert; Caplan Arthur (2013). 1001 Ideas That Changed the Way We Think. McGraw Hill Professional. p. 206. ISBN 1476705720, 9781476705729 Check |isbn= value: invalid character (help). Thanks to Cladius Ptolemy in the second cneutry CE, geocentrism became the dominant worldview until well into the 17th century. 
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.160.36.45 (talkcontribs) 08:19, December 11, 2015‎ (UTC)

There is no way Paul von Ward's books could be regarded as reliable sources on ancient astronomical or cosmological beliefs. According to his CV, he has no academic qualifications in ancient history, Mesopotamian languages, or any other relevant discipline, and it cites no peer-reviewed scholarly publications in any such discipline. The only Harvard degree von Ward claims to have earned is a Masters in Public Administration. The only evidence he cites to support his assertion that the Babylonians developed a heliocentric astronomy are Zechariah Sitchin's misreadings of ancient Sumerian texts. As far as I can tell, there are no genuine experts in ancient Sumerian who agree with Sitchin's readings, and, according to Otto Neugebauer, widely regarded during his lifetime as the world's leading expert on Babylonian mathematics and astronomy, the latter was most definitely not heliocentric.
David Wilson (talk · cont) 08:57, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Columba's supposed vision of the orbit of the Earth[edit]

I have reverted the addition of the following text to the article:

"In Adomnan of Iona's biography of St Columba, Columba claims at one point that God granted him miraculous visions, including the ability to see 'the entire orbit of the whole Earth and the sea and the sky around it'.[23]"

because the expression "the entire orbit of the whole Earth" is a very poor translation of Adomnan's original Latin words "totum totius terrae orbem", which have nothing whatever to do with heliocentrism. A literal translation of "terrae orbis" would be "circle of land", but like the similar Latin expressions "orbis terrarum" and "gyrus terrae", it was a common expression used from classical times to refer either to the oikumene—i.e. the inhabited lands known to the ancients—or to the entire Earth. It cannot be reasonably interpreted as meaning the same thing as what "orbit of the Earth" would mean to a well-educated modern English speaker. In a translation of 1874, the words "totum totius terrae orbem" are rendered as "the whole compass of the world", and the meaning of this English version is undoubtedly very much closer to Adomnan's original. David Wilson (talk · cont) 08:18, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Other translations of Adomnan's "totum totius terrae orbem" are:
Wentworh Huyshe (1900): "the entire circuit of the whole world."
Alan and Marjorie Anderson (1961); "the whole circle of the whole earth."
David Wilson (talk · cont) 05:39, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

astronomyfactbook.com[edit]

This website indicates in its terms of use that "Our websites includes a combination of content that we create, that our partners create, and that our users create." Such websites of non-attributed user created content are not suitable WP:RS. --Noren (talk) 20:34, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

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Article scope[edit]

The article contains a lot of valuable information, but it loses its way completely in some parts, especially the "medieval" section. It is important to trace the intellectual developments which led to the Copernican revolution, but it is not necessary to go into every detail of medieval non-heliocentric theories in the article called "Heliocentrism". All the details on theories of a rotating Earth should be discussed under " Earth's rotation". Similarly, the details of the "Copernican Revolution" should be treated in WP:SS style, because there is not one but two sub-articles, at Copernican heliocentrism and Copernican Revolution.

I will probably try to improve the situation over the next few days, so I am leaving this here as a rationale for any removal of off topic content. --dab (𒁳) 07:54, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

I totally agree with you. In fact I was just thinking the same thing the other day. Go for it. Khirurg (talk) 08:11, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
It seems to me that the question of the possible "Maragha Influence on Copernicus" is now scattered over a wide range of pages and needs to be discussed on its own. This was apparently postulated by Neugebauer in the 1950s, but it does not seem to be widely accepted. Maragheh observatory does not seem to be the right place for this, nor does Copernican heliocentrism: It seems to be quite clear that Copernicus would not have been exposed to these works directly. Copernicus received all his knowledge on medieval Islamic astronomy from 15th-century translations or compendia. Our main problem appears to be that we have no dedicated article on Renaissance-era astronomy; the naive view appears to go something like "there was the Islamic Golden Age, and then there was Copernicus". But of course there had been a European tradition of debating Averroes' criticism of Ptolemy since the 13th century, and in the 15th century it appears that European observations drew even with, or even surpassed, non-European ones. Copernicus is happy to cite all Muslim astronomers he is aware of, but his awareness does not go beyond 1200 (Averroes died 1198). Apparently, the "Maghara" argument would have to postulate that 15th-century Europe was informed by 14th-century Persian astronomy by some kind of intellectual osmosis without becoming aware of the actual works of the Maghara school in any kind of direct transmission.
conclusion, a lot of material in these "heliocentrism" pages should be arranged to form an article on Renaissance astronomy. A pertinent page on de-wiki would be de:Wiener astronomische Schule. --dab (𒁳) 08:58, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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