Talk:Hephthalite Empire

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AYDOGDY KURBANOV on History and Study of the Hephthalites (Hephthalite Empire)[edit]

A discussion to work-up (or have) whether Dr. Kurbanov is "worthy of trust" on "History and Study of the Hephthalites (Hephthalite Empire)" has been initiated at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard -> AYDOGDY KURBANOV on History and Study of the Hephthalites (Hephthalite Empire) And, to neutrally have a firm decision on whether the source ( www.diss.fu-berlin.de/diss/servlets/MCRFileNodeServlet/FUDISS_derivate_000000007165/01_Text.pdf ) can be cited in the concerned WP Articles. Please note that at the present moment, this very source ( www.diss.fu-berlin.de/diss/servlets/MCRFileNodeServlet/FUDISS_derivate_000000007165/01_Text.pdf ) is cited as much as 6 times in this WP Article. Comments are Welcome :) ← Abstruce 18:24, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Origins section[edit]

This part is in shambles, at the moment. I think it would be best to, first of all state, what all the primary (anceint) sources say on the arrival of the Hephthalites, and then also then state what modern scholars favour/ interpret. I think that is the only way of dealing with what is otherwise a very mysterious origo gentis. TO be done soon . . . Slovenski Volk (talk) 23:09, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Merger[edit]

The article on Uar should be merged into this one, becuase it should not even exist. Simply, there is no scholarly concensus that the middle Chinese translation of Hua is even Var !! Whatever the case, the Hua were a subset of the Hephthalites, and having a separate article is redundant, duplicating and pointless. The uar article is moreover mostly of a stub quality. Slovenski Volk (talk) 01:59, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Turkic categorization[edit]

If right Iranian category, must right Turkic category. Erim Turukku (talk) 13:55, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

not unreasonable , although there were likely many different languages spoken in this vast, diverse region Slovenski Volk (talk) 11:05, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
pseudo avars, varangians, sardinians and macedonians, share the same genetic makeup of mostly paleobalcan i2a2 genome. so they cant be turkic. maybe turuk, tocharians or thracians are of macedonian origin? it is interesting because turks have indo-european genes, but their language is not indo-european. how come? 85.30.66.73 (talk) 09:07, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 28 April 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Number 57 16:03, 3 June 2015 (UTC)


Hephthalite EmpireHephthalites – See this ngram. The people, not the empire, is what people usually speak of. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 05:27, 6 May 2015 (UTC) Srnec (talk) 23:32, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

  • SUPPORT, for conciseness per WP:CONCISE and the simple reason that Wikipedia must have a primary entry on "Hephthalites".Oppose. The article's topic is the Hepththalite Empire, not the people. So we need the complete and precise title "Hephthalite Empire" for it, just as we have an article for the preceding Empire, Kushan Empire. For the people Hephthalites, there needs to be created a new article "Hephthalites". Or alternatively, we can maybe add "Hephthalites" as a section of the present article Xionites. Or we can create larger article, for such Eastern Iranian peoples including "Hephthalites", "White Huns", Xionites, and Kidarites, etc. At present the scattered articles about similar topics are badly arranged. Khestwol (talk) 09:25, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
  • OPPOSE: Hepthalites is a typo. It should be Hephthalites. Also, the oft-cited (but incorrectly in this article) contribution by BA Litvinsky is titled The Hephthalite Empire. The ngram also looks broken and I'm not sure it's the right way to decide these things.—Cpt.a.haddock (talk) 17:07, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
The ngram isn't broken, it just didn't find enough results for Hephthalite Empire to even display any, although an independent Google Book search shows more than one hundred. There are almost 10,000 results for Hephthalites. I'm open to an argument that the current title is better, but the preponderance of sources prima facie favours the move. Srnec (talk) 18:15, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
Srnec, please fix your typo. My support iswas for "Hephthalites". Khestwol (talk) 17:24, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
You are correct. That was a typo. Fixed now. Srnec (talk) 18:15, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Seems to be the common name for these people; an article on the people can also cover their empire, while the reverse isn't necessarily true.--Cúchullain t/c 13:49, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Support: Per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE. Krakkos (talk) 15:32, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Comment: The current title "Hephthalite Empire" is WP:PRECISE and indicates exactly the content of the article. "Hephthalites" is an entirely different topic, and an article on that topic would be merely based on the small but influential Hephthalite tribe, not on the area, peoples, and government that tribe ruled. Khestwol (talk) 11:54, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
I disagree. The empire ruled by the Hephthalites can just as easily be covered in an article on them, just as the Hunnic Empire is covered under our article on the Huns.--Cúchullain t/c 14:54, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Hephthalites as a tribe (not empire or khanate) can be covered under Xionites etc. Khestwol (talk) 15:01, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
As a fair comparison, see Yuezhi that we have for a nomadic group from the same region, but Kushan Empire that we have for the empire founded by the Yuezhi. Khestwol (talk) 15:39, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Just in a cursory search, I've found a number of sources that discuss the empire or kingdom founded by the Hephthalites using "Hephthalites".[1][2][3][4]. "Hephthalite Empire" as a term looks to be relatively less common.--Cúchullain t/c 15:56, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.