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- 1 Miscellaneous
- 2 interesting link!
- 3 Pronunciation of Hindu Kush
- 4 Hindu Kush means Killer of Hindus
- 5 Meaning of the word kusha in Sanskrit
- 6 Problem with map
- 7 Centre of population
- 8 Persian Kush
- 9 US occupied hindu kush?
- 10 Folk etymology section
- 11 Etymology of Kush
- 12 HIND UR KÛRS
- 13 Hindu Kush name argument in document by Anders Behring Breivik
- 14 File:Bamian valley.jpg Nominated for Deletion
- 15 Irrelevant and hate speech
- 16 Repeated deletion of content
- 17 Possible edit war
- 18 hindu as hind
- 19 BCE or CE
- 20 Sockpuppetry by Til Eulenspiegel
- 21 Request for a link to the cannabis meaning
- 22 Edit in Section Origin of the Name
- 23 Hindū Kūh and Kūh-e Hind
AN APPEAL TO GOOD SENSE AND GENUINE SCHOLARSHIP The word Hindu does not mean Indus or Sindhu but 'black'. Dictionaries of all the languages commonly used by historical peoples in the area are freely available to all to check this out for yourselves. I concede that the term was probably derogatory - meant to refer to the generally darker indigenous peoples of the Indus valley as compared to either invaders of mixed-Macedonian blood or Arab/Afghan/Mughals. There is no malice in this term now in any case. The word 'kush' does not mean to kill or slaughter but simply 'side' as in left or right. Kush is also referred to in Jewish texts. Moreover THE ORIGINAL INHABITANTS OF THIS AREA WERE NOT OF THE SANATHANA-DHARMA TRADITION. The word Hindu did not and actually still should not refer to a religion. So Hindu Kush has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH KILLING HINDUS. It simply means 'Hindu side' (if referring to a people) or even just 'black side' (perhaps the colour of the mountains?). I would appeal to all to stop inventing history based on pseudo-research / intellectualism in order to support various nationalism/race/religious hate agendas and lead others astray. We should all work together without malice or hatred to further our knowledge and live together in peace. Especially important in these troubled times. Thank you all.
Source Please ??
Yeah know Hinduism comes during Indus valley civilization . And the original Indians were following this religion called Jainism ? which has its roots in central India as opposed to Indus.Also Hinduism is a post Vedic Religion most likely influenced by Jainism .The other reference Arabs are more negroid than Mediterranean ?? Persians Southern Caucasians (Turks Northern Syrians) are not Arab and even feel insulted when called Arab ? or Pashto are more Eurasian than South East Asian . PURELY RACIALLYS
As you decided to bring Race Religion Country here digest some facts.Apart from Balochis Punjabis Sindhis or Shia Most Pakistanis/Afghanis are South East Asian not Caucasians (mountains) not Mediterranean . Sadly same race as Darkies too =/
I am a saraswat my ancestors hail from Sarswati River. If you know what Saraswat is and you too happen to be one don't indulge in such BS .
Back to Hindu Kush from what I know and heard Hindu Kush was the border of India at some point in time .Also no has even bothered with Kushan (Foreign Invaders who formed the Kushan Dynasty or Kush Dynasty)
Kushan Empire Borders somewhat tally with Hindu Kush
This means the biggest genocide of Hindu by the evil muslims and we are now seeing what the muslims are doing now. The sooner the afgan people convert back to any other non muslim religion will we have a safer place to live.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:07, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
STOP Being A Radical to each one his own . Man one Indi-Paki page I visit all I see is Religion Hatred NOT HISTORY/Origins
And continue with hatred but at least whilst discussing history DONT bring this shiit int the discussion =/
i found something interesting today:
there was a 'kushan' people who invaded afghanistan, pakistan, and NW india.
Kushan borders somewhat tally with Hindu Kush Mountains also Kushan were called Kush
Kushan (Foreign Invaders who formed the Kushan Dynasty or Kush Dynasty)
the conflict over the meaning of the name 'hindu kush' is a conflict because of the modern conflicts between muslims and hindus in india and pakistan and within india.
the 'slave markets' in 'central asia' were thought to be muslim slave markets, and some people even say the Roma (gypsies) were the people removed from the area by the muslim slavers.
220.127.116.11 I think that the section claiming that Hindu Kush means Hindu-killer is riddled with errors, speculations, and fabrications. The Brittanica quote turned out to be fabricated, which casts doubt on the rest of it, so I tried to check the facts as stated but couldn't confirm any of it.
- I noticed quite a few edits have been made on that section. I couldn't find the Brittanica quote either on the online E.B., but another source for the same quotation, http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/hindu_kush.html, does provide a reference (Encyclopedia Britannica, 15th Ed, Vol.14, pp.238-240, 1987). Could anyone with access to this copy care to check? Ambarish | Talk 16:40, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Our local library had this older print version of the Encyclopedia Britannica still on the shelves, and yes, I can confirm this reference is, indeed, quoted as printed. As to where or how E.B. came upon this information themselves, I cannot comment. - fallout11
The supposed Americana quote has a subtle grammatical mistake:
The name means literally "Kills the Hindu,
The name literally means "Kills the Hindu,
since the adverb "literally" is modifying the verb "means." Would a professional editor make a mistake like that?
For the only decent reference from googling that I can find (there are some cites at the bottom of the page): http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/hindu_kush.html The Brittanica version seems to have been pretty late, 1987, I think. As to what THEY based their research on, I do not know. I also do not have a copy of Brittanica, so I can not verify that those cites are actually correct. -Vina 20:08, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC) PS the Americana quote may have been "The name means, literally, "Kills the Hindu,". That is also grammatically correct. The original writer may have missed the commas.
- OK, I think I'll wait until someone actually refers the EB 15th Ed.; if the quote *is* really there, I'd want to add it back. Ambarish | Talk 02:34, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I don't know about Brittanica, but the reference to Hindu Kush = Indian Killer appears to be attributed to Ibn Battutah. There's lots of passages quoting him on this on the internet, but I can find no original translation to confirm it. As for Brittanica, it is quite possible for it to have articles in early editions that have been edited out later, sometimes for assumed lack of interest; does not mean it is fabricated. Imc 22:24, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Encyclopaedia Americana does not support it as claimed. Encyclopaedia Americana appears to be defunct now, but I found the reference in Google cache. The reference was in an article about communalism. Contrary to the claim, it cites the "Hindu Kush" myth as a example of anti-Muslim communal polemic. Stanwatch 19:18, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
One theory that I have heard is this: The natives of Afghanistan resisted the coming of Islam for four centuries and defeated many invading Muslim armies, but in the end after 1000AD a big Muslim army overran the area and slaughtered so many Afghans to enforce Muslim rule and make the survivors convert to Islam, that these mountains were renamed "Hindu Kush" = "Slaughter of Hindus".
- But "kush" is not a noun. And the history books have no record of this supposed slaughter of Hindus. Studies of gravestones show a very gradual transition to Muslim names over a period of many centuries. There was a slaughter of the population later, but that was a slaughter of Muslims by the (then non-Muslim) Mongols. But there is some evidence the name precedes even that slaughter.
- This region was called "Caucasus Indicus" in ancient times. Just before the Muslim era, it was called "Kush" in a sixth-century Talmudic tractate. To distinguish this "Kush" from the more well-known Biblical Cush, it may have been named "Hindu Kush" (Indian Kush.)
Don't know if it's worth noting, but the Biblical Cush's descendants include Raamah and Sheva. [Genesis 10] Could it be that there is some link between India and Cush ? [ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 17:22, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
KUS or KUSH means 'a side' in Parshian language (mostly used in conjenction with Right or Lift side). This mountain range is broadly on left side of Indian (Hindu) subcontinent unlike Vidhya, Sahinyadri and Himalaya mountain range. Hence 'a range which is on one side of Hindu land' is named as 'HINDUKUSH' by travelars from percian side towerds cental India.
The medieval inhabvitants of Afghanistan's Hindu Kush regions wern't hindu. Hindu wasn't even recognized as a religious designation until much later. The inhabitants around he indu Kush region were animists, zoroastarian, or buddhists mostly, except for the eastern region which was ruled by a Hindu Shahi dynasty (which again does not mean it was of Indian origin if the word "indian" is used in the modern sense). The word hindu itself in its proper usage demarcating ethnicity would in ancient times mean 1) inhabitants of the Indus Valley only 2) in medeival times as those from the subcontinent who were neither muslim nor buddhist. Hence any polythiest regardless of racial composition and regardless of whether they subscribed to the vedic sanata dharma or not.
- Uh..have your ever heard of the Shahi dynasty of afghanistan? The one of the last Hindu dynasties before the islamic invasion. Don't that Ghandhari from the Mahabharata ruled was a Hindu. --Dangerous-Boy 08:38, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- India as it is commonly thought of today is an outgrowth of English colonialism, when what now comprises the "Indian subcontinent" was largely ruled by the British Crown, and was called "British India". "Back in the day", including when the references to Kush appear in the Talmud, the Indus river was the line that demarcated "the world", or as we think of it now, the "middle east" (although in those days, it was the east), from the terrifying and fascinating realms beyond...all of which was called India, hence the name "the indies" whence the name of the country "Indonesia", literally, Indian Islands. Why Talmudists may have chosen to refer to "the Indian Caucasus" as Kush, or Kush Hodu, rather than Qavqaz Hodu, is beyond me. Tomer TALK 22:59, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
How could it be 'killer of hindus' when Hindu Shahis ruled Afgahnistan and northern indian sub continent and these areas were hindu dominated until about 1000 A.D, the name hindu-kush has been mentioned hundereds of years before that in middle-eastern texts. So it definitely doesn't mean 'kills hindus' even though some muslim zealots have claimed it in the past. As if it is something to brag about. Also, hindutva forces in India have carried this myth forward for their own selfish interest. wikipedialovesignorance, March 19, 2007
Now I don't know where to start correcting you guys . . okay hindu here refers to the people of hindustan . . it has always reffered to the people of sucbcontinent ( obviously pakistan included ). Since Hindu was not a dogmatic or a religion born out of a saint/prophet it never had a name, "Sanatan Dharm" can still be used, but on an honest scale it wasn't a religion instead more of a culture and thats why when somebody calls India Hindustan nobody refers to the religion and similarly for hindu kush. The name means Hindu Mountains from koh meaning mountain reffering to Indian Mountains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldmonk7 (talk • contribs) 09:04, 12 April 2012
Pronunciation of Hindu Kush
Hi, I wonder how "Hindu Kush" should be pronounced. In English at least the letter "u" is ambiguous. In particular I wonder if the u in Kush should be pronounced like the vowel in crucial, cushion, or crush. Thanks for your help. 22.214.171.124 16:31, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Hindu Kush means Killer of Hindus
Hindu Kush means Killer of Hindus. This is an undisputable fact. The only people who dispute this are inferiority complex ridden Indians and Pakistanis who cannot accept how humiliated and subjugated their ancestors were at the hands of Muslim armies from the Middle East and from Central Asia. You can try to edit out the truth from this article on wikipedia, but all credible sources available elsewhere online and on print identify the meaning of Hindu Kush as Killer of Hindus. And indeed, this mountain range is and was.
One more explanation is that, muslims never respected other religions and always faught against them. One cannot win a war without killing peace loving people. Hence, the name hindu kush came from the 'real time situation of that time'. It is resonable to say that, muslims had killed hindus and are killing hindus, in the name of jihad. Muslims simply deny the truth because the want to show 'how good they are or how genuine they are! ' by hiding truth and cricizing truth (or possibly killing those who speak the truth). Why? So that, there is no truth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 16:24, 10 May 2007 (UTC).
- Wow, here is a slavery supporter blowing his ancestors trumpet. Note-Wikipedia is not the place to 'blabber' about your ancestors.
Social indicators in the Islamic kingdoms
The Travels of Ibn Battuta provides vital informations on various issues relating to society in his time.
Are you trying to shock and awe us? This is no worse then medieval Europe in the same time frame. Stop trying to frame something from the 1300s in terms of today's morality in order to support your racist arguments.
Widespread prevalence of Slavery especially the usage of women as Sex Slaves
- "The inhabitants of this city make no effort to stamp out immorality -indeed, the same applies to the whole population of these regions. They buy beautiful Greek slave girls and put them out to prostitution and each girl has to pay a regular due to her master ........I was told that the qadi in this city himself owns slave girls employed in this way.
- "I bought in this city a Greek slave girl, a virgin, for forty gold dinars ".
- "I left it behind and set out with three of my companions, and a slave girl and two slave boys ".
- " and I had in my wagon three slave girls "
- "I had with me a slave girl, who was close to the time of her delivery, and I had intended to transp[ort her to Samarqand, so that she might have the child there."
- "Another reason for our halt was fear of the snow. For upon this road there is a mountain called Hindukush, which means 'the slayer of the Indians 'because the slave boys and girls who are brought from the land of India die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the great quantity of snow ".
- "On reaching Sind I followed this practice and bought horses, camels, white slaves and other goods.."".
Forced Conversions to Islam
- "And as for military commands, you know that the non Arabs were converted to Islam only at the point of the sword of the Arabs ".
Destruction of the places of Worship of non Muslims
- "He also fights with the infidels continually and keeps them under siege. It was his father who captured the city of Bursa from the hands of the Greeks and his tomb is in its mosque, which was formerly a church of the Christians."
- "The site was formely occupied by a budhkhanah, that is an idol temple, and was converted into a mosque on the conquest of the city." (referring to Delhi).
Status of Indian Muslims as compared to Arab and Turkish Muslims
- "The king of India, the Sultan Abu l Mujahid Muhammad Shah, makes a practice of honouring strangers and showing affection to them and singling them out for goverships or high dignities of state. The majority of his courtiers, palace officials, ministers of state, judges and relatives by marriage are foreigners, and he has issued a decree that foreigners are to be called in his country by the title of Aziz [honourable], so that this has become a proper name for them ".
- "Most of the artisans there are Greek women, for in it there are many Greeks who are subject to the muslims and who pay dues to the sultan, including the Jaziyah " .
- "He had war galleys with which he used to make raids on the environs of Constantinople the great and to seize prisoners and booty, then after spending it all in gifts and largesse he would go out again to the Jihad ".
- "We lodged in the house of an old women, an infidel.".
- "He related also that the vagina of this Khatun has a conformation like a ring, and likewise all of those who are descendents of the woman mentioned. I never met, whether in the desert of Qifjaq or elsewhere, any person who said that he had seen a woman formed in this way, or heard tell of one other than this khatun -except, however that one of the inhabitants of China told me that in China there is a class of women with this conformation. But nothing like that ever came into my hands nor have I learned what truth there is in it."
Conduct of war and prisoners
- "We carried the heads of the slain (infidels ) to the castle of Abu Bak har, which we reached about midnight, and suspended them from the wall ". —Preceding unsigned comment added by KnowledgeHegemony (talk) 06:49, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 106.
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 111.
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 113.
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 137.
- Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 141.
- Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 146.
- Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 151.
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 189.
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 163.
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 150.
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 105.
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 104.
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 115.
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 125.
- The Travels of Ibn Batutah - Edited by Tim Mackintosh -Smith Picador Ref page 157.
Meaning of the word kusha in Sanskrit
- The article mentions that the meaning of 'kusha' in Sanskrit is seat.
- I looked it up on the Monier-Williams online Sanskrit dictionary, and out of the many meanings for 'kusha', seat is not one of them.
- The most commonly used meaning is grass, the darbha used in Hindu religious ceremonies is made from kusha.
- While one cannot rule out the possibility of grass mats also being referred to as kusha, 'The seat of the Hindus' refers to something like a throne or pedestal, which would surely not be made from grass. Secondly, considering the extreme climate in this region, I believe that the word kusha is not a reference to grass.
- Ibn Battuta is a well-known traveller and historian, and I think that his version of the meaning of the range is the most plausible.
- Would it be possible for someone to furnish a reference that defines kusha as seat in Sanskrit, failing which, could this be marked as requiring a citation?
- Belavkard (talk) 20:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- Kushal in Sanskrit means prosperous - which is what lured all outsiders to India. 00:31, 17 May 2010 User:188.8.131.52
Problem with map
Article includes Ghizar Valley in Hindu Kush. Should it mean that Gilgit Town also situated in Hindu Kush? In other words, Gilgit lies in which Mountain Range? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 11:32, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Centre of population
How is it possible to define a centre of population of the world when longitude is measured from an arbitrary zero? On a map which had the Pacific in the middle instead of the Atlantic, the centre of population (or any other kind of centroid) would come in a completely different place. HairyDan (talk) 22:57, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not enough of a statistician or demographer to be sure, but the cited reference seems fairly clear. I think I'm summarizing it right when I say the following: take a point, measure the distance from that point to each person on the world (shortest distance along the surface, that is great circle distance), and add them up. The center of population is the point for which this measurement is the smallest. The article center of population doesn't really seem to clarify matters (in particular, whether the notion being discussed in that article deserves the term "center of population"). Kingdon (talk) 03:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- maybe in the persian section it should be mentioned that the word Kush is derived from the verb Kushtar - to slaughter or carnage. A Practical Dictionary of the Persian Language, by J.A.Boyle, Luzac & Co., p.129, 1949 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 22:28, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
- Kush also derives from Kushti - wrestling which was common in greco-indian domains. 00:25, 17 May 2010 User:18.104.22.168
US occupied hindu kush?
- I changed it to be more generic by using the ISAF instead of US. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 17:35, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
Folk etymology section
Any objections to just removing it? It's been uncited for a long time (2 years or so) and now there are references for other material on the origin of the term. I think the article would be better off without this much speculative material that no one seems to be able to find a source for. We can copy it to the talk page so that if anyone wants to research it in the future they have something to go on. With that out I think the clean up tag can be removed. - Taxman Talk 23:46, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
link no 5 is a link to a highly emotional page on hindu.net, thats contains numerous factual errors. here is one, arrians book on alexander is called 'the anabasis of alexander' and categorically not 'the invasion of india by alexander. this is not a serious sober impartial article to link to, and you shouldnt have done so. but most of the rest of the article is pretty good i think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cleobolus (talk • contribs) 22:01, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
The use of "theory" is an outright error in this context. A theory is a proven conjecture. There are too many mutually exclusive items in this section, so suggest it be replaced with another word, such as "opinion" or "conjecture" or "speculation" ... Netherlorn (talk) 19:09, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
- I have no argument with the use of words like "opinion" or "conjecture" or "speculation", unless there is some evidence to back them up. You are wrong, I believe, in stating that a "theory" is a "proven conjecture". A theory is, rather, a conjecture or hypothesis for which some substantive evidence has been found which seems to support the conjecture or hypothesis. A "theory" is not a proven fact. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 23:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Etymology of Kush
I don't know whether this is cognate or coincidence, but the Kurdish language article mentions the words "chiya" and "kash" as meaning mountain. As some dialects of Kurdish are more archaic than modern Persian, I thought perhaps it had preserved an old form of the Persian cognate kuh, thus Hindu Kush may be a gramatically archaic or merely corrupted form of Kash/Kush-e Hind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 15:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
HIND UR KÛRS
HIND UR KÛRS literally means HINTER WATER STONES, that is, "mountains (kûrs) around (hind) the river (ur)" Centuries well before than the travels of Ibn Batutah, were already so named these lands, when the Greek army of Alexander III (The Great) of Macedon crossed them travelling to India. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 17:04, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
Hindu Kush name argument in document by Anders Behring Breivik
The document called "2083 – A European Declaration of Independence" by Anders Behring Breivik, writing as Andrew Berwick before the 2011 Norway attacks, contains a section by Shrinadan Vyas (Section 1.9, pp. 131–5) arguing, whether truthfully or not I am unqualified to say, that "Hindu Kush" is Persian for "Hindu slaughter". — O'Dea (talk) 11:29, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
- I'm reading the manifest myself and just came to that part. Naturally I turned to Wikipedia to check the facts. From what I can tell, Breivik is mistaken and his reference proves his bias and sloppy scholarship. I think to close speculation of the name meaning "slaughter of hindus" it would be appropriate to mention the first documented mentioning of this region as "Hindu Kush". I don't have the knowledge to make that addition, but judging from other comments the name precedes Islam as a significant factor in the region. If the name is mentioned before the region became islamic, that fact would close the case. Otherwise hate-groups will claim that "the political correct are negating the truth" (which as far as I can judge is the core of Breivik's ideology). Benzocaine (talk) 04:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
- In the same boat here - came upon this article trying to verify the substance in Breivik's "manifesto". I agree that, in light of the discussion on the talk page, it's clear that the benign etymology is far more obviously derived, and early (pre-Islamic) references would cement this. On the other hand, I can't help but note that the real etymology of the name is not, in fact, particularly relevant to the argument in the "manifesto". What matters more is that Ibn Battuta, in "Rihla", did in fact present "Slayer of Hindus" as the translation of the name, explaining that "because the slave boys and girls who are brought from India die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the quantity of snow’". Clearly this was the folk etymology of his time (note, I assume that the Battuta quote itself is verifiable; quick googling around has not found any controversy related to it). Since the "manifesto" uses the etymology to illustrate treatment of Hindus under Islam, that etymology, contemporary to the Muslim conquest of India - incorrect and "folk" as it may be linguistically - is of utmost interest. Whether it is relevant to the article itself, I don't know; it would probably have place in the article on the conquest, though.
- By the way, so far as I can tell, none of the first part of the "manifesto" is authored by Breivik himself - it is a collection of assorted articles and essays on topics he deemed relevant. This particular one is taken verbatim from http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/hindu_kush.html. -- int19h (talk) 04:53, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
File:Bamian valley.jpg Nominated for Deletion
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Irrelevant and hate speech
It does NOT mean 'killer of hindus" . . are you guys insane, In general it means "Mountains of India". And Kush is also derived from the Kushan dynasty that ruled that part . . and again it does NOT mean "killer". Oldmonk7 (talk) 05:31, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
- The material you are objecting to is attributed to a reliable source, so you should not continue to delete it over the objections of multiple editors -- that is edit warring, which is not allowed under Wikipedia's policies, and which can get you blocked if you continue. Instead, you need to provide reliable sources which back up your interpretation of what is correct -- without that, what you've got is strictly your opinion, and not verifiable fact. So, please do some research, and stop edit warring. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:17, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Repeated deletion of content
Kaisar78 has deleted a lot of content from this article without giving a satisfactory explanation; just now he reverted me for the third time . He does not seem to agree with what it says as evidenced by the edit summary, but has not backed up what he says in accordance with sources, etc. Since this seems to have become a full-blown edit war, and I know nothing about the subject, I thought I'd try to have a discussion on the talk page. Can another editor review this? Cathfolant (talk) 00:13, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
- It appears Kaisar78 has been reverted by a second editor: . Cathfolant (talk) 00:15, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
Possible edit war
AcidSnow, Darkness Shines, did you guys read the edit I made at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_kush#Origin_of_name? What is wrong with it? The term Hindu Kush comes from the words Hindu and Kush, so we have to either replace Indians with Hindu or put the few words that I added at the end of that particular sentence. If one reads the next sentence, it clearly mentions Hindu Kush='Killer of Hindus', so why is what I add unacceptable?—Khabboos (talk) 17:21, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- The sentence in question that you added states: the Indians were referred to as Hindus by their muslim enslavers and hence the name. This sounds to me like a reasonable explanation, but can you clarify if you are trying to explain that the Indians were referred to as "Hindus" regardless of whether they were Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Jain, or other? Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 17:26, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
- From an outside perspective here (the 74 IP drew attention to this at User talk:Drmies) - I find the "killer of Hindus/Indians" etymology in another reliable source here (Adrian Room, Placenames of the World, 2nd ed. Jefferson, North Carolina: McFarland, 2006, ISBN 9780786422487, p. 157, deriving it from Persian, with hendu meaning either Hindu or Indian. I don't think the disputed sentence is strictly necessary, and it could be replaced by "Hindus, i.e., Indians" if the connection is felt not to be clear; referring to "Muslim enslavers" is non-neutral. Yngvadottir (talk) 19:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
hindu as hind
many words history is more complicated than superficially can be interpreted, hind and Hindu are easily to connected to each other in a listeners ear. Hind as hinterland or hind like female goat, doe or other hunters treasure. but reality is unfortunately that vasudevedas are named Hindu gods later on, as example, and therefor many words especially in arabic and indian countries has this racist sub-meanings,internal text, what conquerors had hear and translated from original Persia or India tells us more english or greece way to speak about other cultures than their own. It would be nice if here would be also first possible name for place, in a first sentence at article, to show respect to natives and their culture. And etyhimology for that. Now it is, how to say, celebration of European power in that area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 10:41, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think anyone associates Hind with the word "hind" meaning female deer (not goat) - because it is pronounced completely differently, like /haɪnd/... There is no connection whatsoever... Do you have any specific suggested changes to the article or sourced information to explain how it is "more complicated"? Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 14:37, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
BCE or CE
:I disagree with the change, adding an E to BC to get BCE serves no real advantage and is actually less popular or recognizable than BC, and the IP's claims that the accepted standard BC is "ethnocentric" are inflammatory and pure hogwash in a thinly veiled attempt to disguise as "political correctness" being imposed. This is precisely why the arbs decided neutrally to allow BC in articles that already had it first and revert editors who just go changing from one to the other. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 12:47, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, prior use here has been BC/AD. But, that can be changed with "local consensus". My preference is to use BCE/CE as it avoids the religious baggage associated with BC/AD. In a science/geography article we don't need that "baggage". Currently, I see a 3 to 1 consensus developing: Bladesmulti, the 1st ip and me for change and one ip opposed. Vsmith (talk) 13:37, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Your characterization of the perfectly acceptable and widespread BC / AD as "baggage" is inflammatory and offensive. It is shameful that nobody can make a point these days without trying to be ugly and bigoted about it. And in case you hadn't noticed, this is a history article as much as a "science" article, I think your outlook on editing here is one-sided. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 13:44, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- Also User:Gob Lofa had reverted your change. We use BCE/CE on South Asian articles. Bladesmulti (talk) 14:14, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- I see now 4 to 1, please cease edit warring against the growing consensus - and stop the personal attacks (implicit and explicit). Vsmith (talk) 14:20, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Sockpuppetry by Til Eulenspiegel
I happened upon this page looking for more information on the Hindu Kush cannabis. Nothing here. Rather, I found sources elsewhere, such as http://www.wikileaf.com/strain/hindu-kush/. Could someone please do us a favor and add a "See also" link for the cannabis one? Thank you! 22.214.171.124 (talk) 23:30, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
- You mean like a disclaimer? Do we have such an article anyways? AcidSnow (talk) 00:37, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Edit in Section Origin of the Name
My edit was undone again. I wonder why does the editor not argue out on the points raised rather than surreptitiously undoing edits? Even on this talk page, enough on Ibn Battuta has been said, which supports my contention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Puruvara (talk • contribs) 08:22, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
This entire para: However, such a derivation is strongly challenged by historical documents, such as the one found in the writings of 14th century explorer Ibn Battutah, who explains that the words "Hindu Kush" refer to the harsh meteorological conditions and frost that was responsible for the death of many local travellers in that region. At the time, the word Hindu was a secular term which was used to describe all inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent – or Hindustan – irrespective of their religious affiliation. It was only towards the end of the 18th century that European merchants and colonists referred collectively to the followers of some Indian religions as Hindus.
..is a generic conclusion / set of observations, not supported by any documentary evidence and moreover, is just wrong
Hindu Kush" refer to the harsh meteorological conditions and frost - this is grossly incorrect. An analogy would be 'Cape of Good hope' refers to harsh sea conditions and sea monsters
What Ibn Batuta actually speaks is what Encylcopedia Americana has said. Further, the only voluntary movement through Hindukush in India was of the Turkic invaders and any outward movement of Indians was mostly forced. In anycase, if only travellers were getting killed, that would have included the Turks and in fact more of them. The mountains would have been called something else then.
At the time, the word Hindu was a secular term which was used to describe all inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent – or Hindustan – irrespective of their religious affiliation. It was only towards the end of the 18th century that European merchants and colonists referred collectively to the followers of some Indian religions as Hindus.
The above is simply not related to the topic and carries even more infirmities.
Secularism, as a concept, was introduced in India through the British rule. To imagine that medieval invaders or even Indians themselves would use the word in a 'secular' sense is simply not logical. But more importantly, as the line itself says, while all the Indians may not have called themselves Hindus, the external world, Arabia, Persia and Central Asia identified all Indians as Hindus. So, the mountain, crossing of which resulted in killing of slaves captured from the Hind, was naturally called Slayer of the Hindus.
Lastly, the sentence regarding European Merchants etc defining Hindus is again incorrect as at least by the early Mughal times, Hindus had adopted the foreign terminology to identify themselves. E.g. Guru Nanak and Kabir's dohas, Rana Pratap's letter, Shivaji's edicts and even before that decrees of the later Vijayanagar kings.
In any case, this is a topic on Hindukush, not the origin of the term Hindu. And if it were, it is all the more important to remove suppositions.
Hindū Kūh and Kūh-e Hind
I have not been able to find a source to support the (slightly ungrammatical) claim in the Origin of name section:
"Hindū Kūh (ھندوکوه) and Kūh-e Hind (کوهِ ھند) usually applied to the entire range separating the basins of the Kabul and Helmand Rivers from that of the Amu Darya, or, more specifically, to that part of the range lying northwest of Kabul."
Can someone show sources that use those names in the way indicated in the sentence? Apuldram (talk) 15:49, 9 February 2016 (UTC)