# Talk:Hipster

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## origin of 'hip'

ĤI'm not an expert on the subject, but I've seen many linguistic sources with various explanations of where the therm "hip" originated. example: http://slate.msn.com/id/2110811

i dont think a journalist is higher then most linguists opinions...i think slate is one of the most biased places to find a reference --Juju 15:11, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

## congratulations

more insanely biased work from deecevoice. hear hear. Lockeownzj00 20:35, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Care to elaborate on that, or anything helpful? GTBacchus 19:53, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This bit is ludicrous:
"Many hipster terms generally fell out of use in mainstream, white society with the changing of styles and the coming of hippies in the 1960s, but have remained in use in the African-American community, where they were neither in nor out of fashion, but simply part of the traditional lexicon."
I think anyone who devotes any real study to it will find African-American communities' colloquialisms have evolved faster than those of "white society," not slower. Regardless, this sentence is a personal judgement, and would be well backed up with personal experience from the author.

--Badmuthahubbard 20:42, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I added a few names and details to the list of 90s/00s hipsters to indicate why they are of interest, but more work is needed. --Misterwindupbird 17:52, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

## Deleted text

This certainly didn't belong in the "Hipster lingo" section, whatever else happens:

Bohemia itself was a place in Europe. Europe is where all Modern Art Movments sprouted from. Many Bohemians were poor and lived and worked as Artisans. A Bohemian in the Modern slang Vernacular of English is Artist by most Standards indicates aliving Condition or Style. The poor Artists are always being called Bohemian.The Popular Beatnik or Artists'Beret'came from France where the best of European Art is housed in the "Louvre" in Paris, France. The French version of Beatnik-ism is made fun of in the 1950's Musical"Funny Face" Starring Fred Astaire.
Beatniks i.e; Bohemians,lived and thrived in the 1950's and 1960's all over Europe and South America; including Mexico. And where-ever Politcol Protest Art was being made.However,the "Artistic Bohemian life" only began to take root in Asia after the Wars had ended, College became more prevelent thing for everyone to go through,and Coffee Drinking became more popular than Tea Drinking...it must be that "Coffee drinking and Learning" is the main igredient of Beatnik-ism.

GTBacchus 4 July 2005 17:07 (UTC)

And this is self promotion.

Even if David C. Teage is notable enough to be in Wikipedia (The Google Test says no...), it's certainly not on account of his being a famous turn-of-the-century hipster, which he isn't. GTBacchus 7 July 2005 18:37 (UTC)

How do you exclude the year 1960-1980 years of hipsterism on your site in favor of fifeteen years of mediocrity? Hipster of 1990 onward are more "Hippie" than the real hippies were in the 1970's. (unsigned comments by 69.104.76.195)

It seems that the word was in common usage in the 1940s and 50s, fell out of usage for about 30 or 35 years, and then was revived by a different generation. If I'm wrong about that, then please say so, and let's talk about how to fix the article. Deleting lists that have been built up by multiple editors wholesale is NOT a productive way to address the problem. Neither is branding current youth culture as "fifteen years of mediocrity". Please read WP:WIN, WP:VAIN and WP:NPOV, at the very least. GTBacchus 8 July 2005 18:32 (UTC)

## Beth Orton?

How exactly is Beth Orton a notable contemporary hipster? Acb 12:19, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree. While the list is subjective, it's hard for me to see the case for Beth Orton as a hipster, or someone of particular interest to hipsters. I'd say the same of Ani DiFranco, as well. I like them both, but I don't see them as hipster icons. --Misterwindupbird 03:11, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

## reworked opening

I reworked the opening paragraph to make it more descriptive of what follows, and less concerned with the etymology of the word "hip". I'm not completely happy with it, so if anyone wants to take another shot at it, I'd encourage you to do so. --Misterwindupbird 03:52, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Nice work. I went ahead and gave the new opening paragraph a once-over; cleared out some of those dangling pronouns. Getting better, no? GTBacchus 06:44, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Getting better, yes. Thanks for the cleanup. --Misterwindupbird 07:18, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I moved the ref to the Hipster Handbook out of the opening paragraph. It really doesn't seem like a good place for it. --Misterwindupbird 22:55, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

## famous late-period hipster bloat

The list of "famous hipsters" for the contemporary hipster section seems to be getting pretty long, and populated with hipsters of dubious fame and/or "hipster cred". I've gone and tried to explain why some of the people should be on the list, but some I don't know much about, haven't heard of, haven't heard of in a particularly hipsterish context, or are simply getting redundant (does every indie singer-songwriter and alternative comics artist of the past decade have to be listed?). I'd suggest deleting the following, for starters, and there are certainly others I wouldn't try too hard to defend:

• Zach Braff (not a fucking hipster)
• Lukas Haas
• Ross Harris
• Pagan Kennedy
• Chuck Klosterman
• Jim Mahfood
• Stuart Murdoch
• Conor Oberst
• Stephanie Pakrul
• Pauley Perrette
• Paul Pope

Also, a lot of the people on the list seem to be there not because they are famous for being hipsters, but because hipsters like their work. Maybe a new section for hipster movies/comics/music/books is in order? --Misterwindupbird 06:33, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Okay, since nobody jumped up to stop me, I decided to be bold and do some culling. Here's the text I removed:

I admire some of these people quite a bit, I just don't see them as "famous hipsters". Or at least. they're less famous or noteworthy than people already listed for similar contributions (eg, I like Conor Oberst, but if you already have Elliot Smith...). --Misterwindupbird 18:31, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I'd keep Jessica Abel on.

Also moved here:

--Misterwindupbird 05:53, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and categorized both lists of famous hipsters. So many of the 50's group were famous for multiple reasons that I couldn't get many categories for them. Any changes are welcome of course, maybe it'll be easier to keep the lists balanced now. GTBacchus 21:15, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Nice work, though I do want to raise a couple of issues: Categorizing like this again rasies the question (at least for me) of whether these people are on the list for being famous hipsters or for producing famously hip literature/comics/music/comedy/etc. And I wonder if this will cause people to try to make the categories "complete", while hesitating to add people who might not fit into them. --Misterwindupbird 17:29, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I guess the best thing would be to separate the latter-day hipsters into categories to reflect that distinction? In other words, list famous hipsters, and then separately list artists and works that influenced hipster culture from the outside. GTBacchus 23:48, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, that's kind of something I've been thinking about doing, but I don't seem to have the time. For example, I could see Vincent Gallo being listed as a famous hipster, and Buffalo 66 as a hipster film, while Adrian Tomine's work is hipsterish, but the man himself isn't known (I think) for being a hipster. There's still some subtlty there, though. For example, Beck himself is clearly a hipster, but it's pretty hard to seperate his persona from his music, and I'm not even sure his last couple of albums are necessarily "hipster albums" like, say, Wiliam Shatner's Has Been is. --Misterwindupbird 18:05, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

I think Sammy Davis, Jr and Beck are great illustrations of hipsters, and I wonder what others think of these as well:

The reason it's hard to separate Beck's persona from his music is that he's never out of character. He always presents carefully cryptic views of himself, and really doesn't seem like he could have a normal conversation. He is part of his act, and I think that's true of these three as well to some extent.--Badmuthahubbard 20:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Les Claypool belongs here and would make a fine addition. I wouldn't consider Prince or Björk a hipster for the same reason that I wouldn't consider Harmony Korine a hipster either. Sure he was mildly involved with the hipster scene of the early 90s, not near to the extent that Harold Hunter, Larry Clark, Leo Fitzpatrick, Chloe Sevigny, and Justin Pierce were, but after Gummo hit big he fell into obscurity and is hardly a hipster today. I see no reason why he should be here and Zach Braff shouldn't. Braff dates well known hipsters, wrote and directed the biggest hipster film in cinema history, and stars in a very hip television program while Korine lives in Nashville with his wife, gains weight and will take time out once every ten years to make a movie with his non-hipster friends like Blaine and Herzog. Korine should be deleted, Claypool and Braff should be added.--Hypermagic 22:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

If you think Zappa was a hipster, you're crazy

## Wicker Park, Chicago: Hipster Haven??

Maybe ten years ago this would have been accurate, but most of Wicker is now about as hipster as um...Schaumburg. The bohos have long since been booted out by rising rents and yuppies with SUVs and pedigreed dogs. I updated the entry to reflect current realities. (Soon to be outdated as well! The condo-building boom continues...) --bobo 05:55, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

## PoMo hipsters

67.0.218.55 added a paragraph on how hipsters are postmodern, which I heavily trimmed for the following reasons:

1. The main idea is quite well-articulated by the editor in the part I did keep, and kind of wordily repeated in the rest.
2. The paragraph as a whole (and possibly the part I left?) looks like original research, and is full of unsupported (and unsupportable) statements.

Still, the English major in me likes it, so I moved it here in case people wanted to discuss/salvage it:

The present hipster pseudo-rebellion is often regarded as a natural reaction of the more intellectual or artistically inclined Generation Y person to living in a postmodern society; wherein the only viable way to "rebel" is to superficially partake in what all previous counter-culture hipsters despised: consumerism and kitsch. The defiance in today's hipster consumerism and kitsch adoration lies in the ironic message being given. In essence, it is understood that each person is their own and to consciously align oneself with any particularly label means to lose your identity in ultimate materialism. Furthermore, the concept of a counter-culture as means of a revolution is thought of as pointless by today's hipster youth. Thus a new approach is taken altogether. By making light of the abudant absurdity of materials people once held or hold dear means to make way for an ambivalent conclusion of cynicism and a particular playfulness with modernization and the societal constructs that resulted, which can only fully be understood by that of the hipster himself. So although authenticity is undoubtedly sought by the modern hipster in music, press, art, etc. it is paradoxically known not to truly exist due to the underlying artifice that resides in every work of art -- a postmodern condition. Therefore the modern concept of defining oneself materialistically is overcome through mocking said materialism, modernism, and industrialization via self-refrential irony.

## Baltimore Hipster Scene

I'd written a lengthy article justifying my minor edit to the list of Baltimore neighborhoods where you can find hipsters. Then my laptop crashed and I lost it, and I'm not too keen to try again. So unless someone wants to challenge my edit and/or reverts it, this is a placeholder justification... --Shy

Glaring omission: The Coen Brothers!

Their hipster classics: Big Lebowski, Hudsucker Proxy, Fargo, Miller's Crossing, The Man Who Wasn't There, O Brother Where Art Thou...

---

## politics, religion, television

An anonymous editor added sections on hipster politics, religion and television, which I have moved here for discussion. These sections would seem to me to fall somewhere between a recitation of stereotypes and original research, with a bit of POV to boot. At the very least, I disagree with an awful lot of it. Wicca, The Church of the Subgenius, and South Park may be fun, but I hardly see them as hipster touchstones, and doesn't the hipster stereotype generally imply they are apolitical, or at least undogmatic?

Anyway, here's the text. Thoughts? --Misterwindupbird 02:47, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Hipster Politics
Hipsters traditionally have been to the left of centre in their respective countries. Hipsters generally embrace causes such as environmentalism, gender equality, abortion rights, gay rights, marijuana legalisation and the separation of church and state. Green parties throughout the world have attracted many hipster members and voters. In the past, some hipsters were either communist or had communist sympathies. Communist hipsters are rare in the post-Soviet world.
Recently, there has been an emergence of conservative young people who have adopted hipster clothing and hair-styles, and may even have piercings and tattoos, but share little else in common with traditional hipsterism. This phenomenon is particularly visible among certain Christian rock bands and among certain fans of Christian rock. Jay Bakker, son of scandal-ridden TV evangelist Jim Bakker, is an example of a Christian conservative who deceptively looks like a hipster.

Hipsters and Religion
By and large, hipsters tend to reject organised religion. A high percentage of hipsters are atheist or agnostic and many have overt contempt for organised religion. Few hipsters would call themselves Christian and those who call themselves Jewish more likely mean they are Jewish in the ethnic sense, and not in the religious sense. Some hipsters embrace non-mainstream religions, such as Wicca.
The Church of the Subgenious is a hipster "religion" which is essentially a parody of organised religions and cults. Members of this "church" tend to be cynical, atheist or agnostic hipsters with a sophisticated sense of humour.
Hipster Television

Although some hipsters proudly proclaim "I don't watch TV" or "I don't own a TV," the following TV shows undeniably appeal to hipsters, and some even enjoy cult-status among hipsters: The Simpsons, The Family Guy, South Park, Da Ali G Show, The Young Ones, Absolutely Fabulous, Sex and the City, The Daily Show, Saturday Night Live and Adult Swim shows such as Robot Chicken, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Space Ghost and Harvey Birdman Attorney at Law.

I agree that wicca is a bit too sincere and earnest to be seen as a "hipster" phenomenon, any more than, say, Buddhism. Hipsters generally don't do earnestness. The Church of the SubGenius, however, would fit into the hipster article, IMHO. The SubGenii articulated the concept of "macho irony" a few decades before it became fashionable; the attitude of SubGenius literature from the 1980s is not unlike that of VICE today, only without the designer jeans/sneaker ads. One could possibly mention the Church of Satan and its offshoots/related religions (Temple of Set, Process Church), which attracts the more nihilistic types, and has been connected to hipsters from Sammy Davis Jr. to Boyd Rice.
As for TV, the list of shows would probably need to be pruned to a few things which are undoubtedly hipsterish in their outlook, or else omitted altogether. "Sex and the City" and "Absolutely Fabulous" strike me as a bit too mainstream to be hipster touchstones. Acb 11:28, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
It would really take more persuading before I felt good about any TV show being on the page. TV is almost by definition unhip, except maybe for The Daily Show and early SNL, and even then, it's still TV.
As for the CotSG: maybe, but kind of seems too geeky to me, though I do agree that the design of the church material is a great example of the kind of DIY collage cut-and-paste design that's still fashionably underground. I used to be a church member in high school and knew other members, and most of us went on to careers that involved computer programming and/or math, though of course that's just my experience. Still, when you see someone in a Bob t-shirt, is your first thought "now that is a hipster" or "now that is someone who knows the answers to my questions about Linux"? And the Church of Satan just seems to have too strong a connection with Goths to be part of The New Hipsterism, but I agree that old-school hipsters seemed to dig it in the same way the beats dug Buddhism. --Misterwindupbird 17:46, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
I agree with you on TV. We can probably lose that entire section, or just hold it over for a section on the interplay between hipster culture and the mainstream.
These days, a "Bob" T-shirt could be an indication of being a Linux geek. By the same token, a vintage summer-camp T-shirt or trucker hat could be an indication of being a consumeristic fashion victim rather than a hipster. At its origins, though, the Church of the SubGenius was a product of the hipster scene, and attracted many bohemian/fringe artist types (core members like Stang and Mavrides, for example; many other artists, such as John Shirley, Coop and Bill Barker, also had some connections to the SubGenius scene). The arrival of USENET and the Web diluted that somewhat, though, IMHO, it stands as a historical fact significant enough to mention, giving examples.
AFAIK, these days the Church of Satan is basically a Marilyn Manson fan club or something. Though you do get an interplay between hipsterism and Satanistic/Luciferian ideologies, both historically (LaVey and coterie) and more recently (one of the Disinformation people wrote a book about how Lucifer is the patron saint of the counterculture or similar). And, in a very diluted sense, the whole aesthetic manifests itself in New York/Williamsburg hipster fashion, i.e., wearing clothes with skulls on them (or what Momus calls "<a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/imomus/128677.html">Fashion Goth</a>"). Acb 10:53, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
But yes, I think there should be a section on hipster culture's semiotics and tropes bleeding into the mainstream, which could mention superficial appropriations of hipster irony (the aforementioned vintage T-shirts), the slightly more pomo/self-referential TV shows of today, Jay Bakker's hairstyle, VICE Magazine's blending of underground-zine content with fashion marketing, and so on. Acb 10:53, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
IMO, It doesn't really matter what we decide qualifies as a "hipster touchstone" or not. We're not reporting our collective knowledge and shared opinion about hipsterness, we're writing an encyclopedia. This is all original research. It doesn't matter if everything that's brainstormed up on this talk page is 100% correct and awesome; it shouldn't go in. If you want to include details of hipster culture, find a source that talks about that, summarize what the source says, and cite it. This is exactly the sort of article where original research creeps into the project, so we should be especially careful with it. -GTBacchus(talk) 16:46, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Hipsters and Religion:

While many Hipsters may profess Disdain for Religion- there is another breed of Hipster- The Christian Hipster. Christian Hipsters are progessive types of Christians who favor more independent forms of worship than traditional mass or church services. They can be found sporting t-shirts like "Shine, Jesus Shine" or "All My Heroes are Martyrs". They dont drink or smoke- they "juice" they hang out in Holy Juice Bars. Drink Jones brands, etc. They have coffeehouses for Hipster Christians with the same kind of Alternative Independent bands- only its Christian. Unlike their unsaved Hipster cousins, Christian Hipsters tend to be a tad friendlier and not cynical. And ironically, less judgemental and more open. The Christian Hipster in many ways is also a paradox since Christian Hipsters embrace the cutting edge, yet are not a part of it. The Christian Hipsters are emerging on the scene and more and more it is becoming "deck" to love Jesus.

Christian Hipsters:

While many Hipsters may profess Disdain for Religion- there is another breed of Hipster- The Christian Hipster. Christian Hipsters are progessive types of Christians who favor more independent forms of worship than traditional mass or church services. They can be found sporting t-shirts like "Shine, Jesus Shine" or "All My Heroes are Martyrs". They dont drink or smoke- they "juice" they hang out in Holy Juice Bars. Drink Jones brands, etc. They have coffeehouses for Hipster Christians with the same kind of Alternative Independent bands- only its Christian. Unlike their unsaved Hipster cousins, Christian Hipsters tend to be a tad friendlier and not cynical. And ironically, less judgemental and more open. The Christian Hipster in many ways is also a paradox since Christian Hipsters embrace the cutting edge, yet are not a part of it. The Christian Hipsters are emerging on the scene and more and more it is becoming "deck" to love Jesus.

"Recently, there has been an emergence of conservative young people who have adopted hipster clothing and hair-styles, and may even have piercings and tattoos, but share little else in common with traditional hipsterism. This phenomenon is particularly visible among certain Christian rock bands and among certain fans of Christian rock. Jay Bakker, son of scandal-ridden TV evangelist Jim Bakker, is an example of a Christian conservative who deceptively looks like a hipster. "

I would slightly disagree with this statement. In a general sense, a person who is in the arts- or part of the creative class, creative who is artistically and socially aware, in a sense as the Christian Rock movement, by and large could constitute as true Hipsters. Hipsters who possibly defy the status quo, i.e. being Christian or conservative in politics, make an actual paradox and an irony of itself- which is in reality the heart of Hipsterdom. A Christian Rocker with expressed interest in alternative styles of worship, underground music, and other selections of literature such as "Velvet Elvis", could indeed by a genuine Hipster. Ted Nugent is by and large considered a Hipster Icon and he supports George Bush. I'm sorry, actually the Nuge isn't a hipster at all, why the fuck did I say that. At any rate, hipster is- an attitude more than anything else.

I would contend that Badly Drawn Boy is not a quintessential hipster. He may wear thrift-shop clothing and a funny hat, but his music tends to be more prematurely-middle-aged domestic sentimentalism than anything with any sort of hipster sensibility. If he's on the list, then, by rights, Chris Martin should be there too. Acb 11:15, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't know that I quite a agree with your assessment of his music, but I do agree he's not a quintessential hipster and can be removed. Which I've done. --Misterwindupbird 17:46, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

## Hipster districts and sourcing

I'm worried that a lot of the section on where modern hipsters live is, in addition to being quite subject to outdating, rather unverifiable, per WP:V and/or WP:NOR. It's just a chorus of people saying "here's where the hipsters live in my city". Should that whole list just go, or does some combination of sourcing and pruning seem feasible?

This problem might extend beyond the districts section, but that seems like a good place to start. -GTBacchus(talk) 06:46, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I've been having the same thoughts, especially given that it's growing quite long. A lot of it is, I think, clearly original research, and, frankly, not very useful. At the same time, for the cities I personally know about, I'd say it's pretty accurate. Probably the best thing to do is to move the content to this page until each entry can be sourced.
If we do that, the list of famous hipsters should probably get the same treatment. A bit of a shame, as I think it's actually pretty helpful in explaining both periods of hipsterism, but still, I think this page could certainly be brought up to a higher standard.
On a related note, if a "reputable publication" says that a neighbourhood is populated by hipsters or a celebrity is a hipster, is that to be considered verifiable? --Misterwindupbird 09:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
I guess that would be the standard to apply, but I question the value of lists in this context; they seem somewhat subject to abuse.
I just read hippie, which needs work, too, as well as yuppie and beatnik, which are both substantially better than this one, I think. They might be sources of good ideas. GTBacchus(talk) 10:13, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I do think the famous hipsters lists have value; to my mind it's more an issue of whether they violate policy. The hipster districts list, though, is so conspicuously bad in so many ways (not to mention being useless in its current form), that would argue for deleting it, possibly in favor of a couple of sentences about the most famous hipster centers, like Williamsburg. --Misterwindupbird 09:45, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Ok, the districts section is out, and pasted below in case anything's salvagable. I'm not too keen on reinstating even the first explanatory paragraph without some kind of sourcing, though. As fun as original research is...
I agree that there's value in the lists of famous hipsters; they'll just need occasional pruning. Would it be appropriate to follow each entry on the lists with a link to some source referring to that person as a hipster? -GTBacchus(talk) 04:28, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

## removed section

Hipster districts

Due to financial circumstances hipsters have often been forced to live in formerly unfashionable, often blighted neighborhoods in large cities around the world; after wealthier middle-aged people (many of whom are former hipsters themselves) move into these areas and begin to gentrify them, hipsters often move on.

Noted hipster districts in the United States include:

In the UK, the popular hipster places of dwelling include Hoxton in the Old East End of London who became the legendary Shoreditch Twats, satirised by Chris Morris in Nathan Barley, as well as the adjacent Bethnal Green. 'Yuppification' has pushed many hipsters from those areas into Stoke Newington and Kingsland to the north, and Hackney and Dalston to the east. New Cross, around the Goldsmiths College area (also in London) is popular with hipsters, especially the local art-punk scene. Brixton and Camberwell in South London are also increasingly popular. In Glasgow in Scotland, noted for its avant garde art and music scene, hipsters have been largely priced out of their traditional enclave of the Byres Road area in the West End of Glasgow to the nearby Kelvinbridge, as well as Shawlands in the south of the city, Dennistoun in the east end and the area around King Street in the city centre. Other British hipster areas include Brighton on the south coast, Chorlton and Didsbury in Manchester and the small town of Hebden Bridge in Yorkshire.

Canadian hipsters tend to avoid the smaller cities and suburbs and congregate in older, core areas of the major cities: The Plateau and Mile End in Montreal; the Parkdale (Queen West), and College Street neighbourhoods in Toronto; and the Strathcona, mid-Main, and Commercial Drive neighbourhoods in Vancouver. Other Canadian hipster districts include Mission, Kensington and Inglewood in Calgary; and Chinguacousy Park in Brampton.

Noted hipster districts in Australia include Fitzroy/Fitzroy North and Brunswick in Melbourne, Newtown and Darlinghurst in Sydney, O'Conner in Canberra and Fortitude Valley in Brisbane. The term "coolsie" is sometimes used to refer to the hipster subculture in Australia, especially in Melbourne, sometimes considered the epicenter of hipster Australia.

In Germany, they tend to swing in Prenzlauer Berg, a district of Berlin, and the Schanzenviertel and St. Pauli, both districts of Hamburg. In Madrid, Spain they gravitate, among other areas, in a place called "Mercado de Fuencarral", and the area known as "Malasaña" and "Lavapies" (in this area the famous "La Movida" from the 80´s started), in Barcelona they gather among other areas as "Raval", "Barceloneta", "El Distrito del Born", Gracia, and specially you can see hipsters during the "Sonar Festival". In Paris they congregate in the Bastille district. In Rome they can be found in the Testaccio neighborhood, and in Milan they favor the Navigli area. In Greece, the Exarhia area of Athens is a hipster favorite. They can also be found in other French, Italian, and Greek cities. In the Czech Republic, the hipster district is Zizkov of Prague.

The most famous district for Japanese hipsters is Shibuya, Tokyo. Vancouver and New York are particularly noted as destinations for Japanese hipsters visiting or living in North America.

This section certainly did get out of control, but I hope to see it restored in an improved form because I think it is vital to the article and there is certainly enough valid research out there to support it. See the recent academic title "Neo-Bohemia" by Richard Lloyd for one scholarly treatment of the topic. I'll get to work when I can.~Sylvain 12/9/05
Do you actually get "hipsters" in the UK? I've only ever heard of it used to describe Americans (by Americans). Indie kids are different, and I note that the article on Nathan Barley doesn't mention the word. Secretlondon 02:51, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, this is original research, but in my experience, "Indie kids" started being called "hipsters" sometime in the mid-to-late '90s. I never thought of them as different creatures. -GTBacchus(talk) 03:33, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

This section needs to get back, how can we help?--Croncho 19:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

## Elliot Smith

Although Elliot Smith may be an Ipod staple of most indie rock hipsters, I don't think he was a hipster.

## Pictures of Hipsters

For pictures of hipsters, see The Cobrasnake's Party Photos section. --Ribble 21:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Correction: THESE ARE PICTURES OF MORONS.

## Hipster PDA

Does the Hipster PDA have anything to do with this?

I dont think so, basically the Hipster PDA adresses to be a organizational form of time planning, nothing to do with being "hipster"--Croncho 19:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)-

## Hipster Musicians

I think the Muiscians section needs to be edited, because many of the people listed aren't hipsters. I will remove the Arcade Fire and Sufjan Stevens because they are praised by hipsters but aren't actually hipsters. Also, I don't think the Pixies fit this distinction either. ---- User:Rmutt fountain

## Derisive use of "hipster"

how about getting rid of hipster doofus, and moving the content here? --Binkymagnus 15:21, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

This entire contemporary re-interpretation of the word "hipster" should instead be labeled "clueless trendy dipshit"

I'd like some info on the relevance and association with the term Scenester. In my circles (Portland bike punk - if I had to list it) both are dismissive as being overly observatory as opposed to participatory.

While a Hipster might not add anything to the mix, they at least look the part. In contrast to a Scenester, who chases after happenings with such gusto as to not even bother to dress the part, but still refuses to add anything of substance... not even the hipster window dressing.

It is common belief that this self awareness and dedication to distancing ones self from his or her surroundings is what prevents people from taking action in the moment. The best example of this may be Portland's somewhat notorious reputation for lack of dancing. - revphil

## total POV

Okay. On the current page, the "modern hipster" section is total POV thinly disguised via disingenuous use of "some say that blah-blah-blah . . ." Someone's a happy stereotyper!

Yeah, from the section: "Although they like to think of themselves as creative types, more often than not, they are simply culture miners, Johnny-come-latelys, and other Scenster types, who not so much create, but borrow and bastardize." I mean, come on.RSimione 23:27, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

## Split?

Since this article seems to be describing two different subcultures that just happen to have the same name, perhaps it should be split? —Ashley Y 08:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... It's not a bad idea, perhaps. -GTBacchus(talk) 15:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I third that, but don't have the wiki skills to do anything about it. -Dwinetsk 20:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've been bold... —Ashley Y 09:17, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

OF COURSE they should be split into two articles!!! Jesus H. Christ, you people are completely clueless as to the origins of the word "hipster" which has absolutely ZILCH to do with the usage of the term today. Today it equals "trendy" - the exact opposite of it's original incarnation!

## Viking helmets?

Wtf? Did I miss something. I have spent a lot of time with hipsters. I went to Oberlin College (ranked #1 in the Hipster Handbook) and moved to Brooklyn afterward. I have never seen a hipster wearing a viking helmet around, though I think it's a good idea. I think it would be an interesting progression from the whole pirate thing.

Also, it says, "under-developed neighborhoods like Williamsburg, Brooklyn." Have any of the authors ever been to Williamsburg without glasses of denial on? If that's not developed, I don't know what is? -Dwinetsk 20:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

YES, you completely missed something. The mere existence of a book called "the hipster handbook" (the title itself an oxymoronic statement of sorts) and the fact that you cite it as some definitive tome of hipness merely amplifies your cluelessness, the complete absurdity of this article and the current bastardization of the term "hipster". Lenny Bruce was a hipster. You are what is called a "Trendy", or "Fad-Hopper" - also referred to as an "Indie-Kid".

## Needed rewrites of each subculture

Both the articles Hipster (1940s subculture) and Hipster (contemporary subculture) have been replaced with near-identical takes on the subject by Jujucabana. (I added a quick explanation as the first sentence of the 1940s one.) While this new version is moderately well-sourced, it is both somewhat contradictory and far from NPOV, alleging that the term is both purely "derogatory" and a demographic invented by such corporations as Camel cigarrettes (never mind that emographic terms tend not to be derogatory). However, the text that was replaced wasn't necessarily up to Wikipedia standards either; after I reverted both, Jujucabana simply did it again, and I realized that there was a point, if less-than-perfectly-made, to doing so. What should really happen are the following, in no particular order:

• Both articles should be brought to the attention of an expert.
• Both articles should be put under the wing of at least one appropriate WikiProject.
• Both articles should be rewritten into either a stub- or start-class form, using whatever material can be salvaged from past versions. They should each have an introduction somewhere along the lines of "The word hipster, in the context of [the 1940s in the United States/the United States today] refers/red to..." and should mention the other usage within the first two sentences in a way that establishes both the distinction and the overlap of these groups. The contemprary one should perhaps also mention the wide plethora of possible uses (actual subculture, derogatory, and demographic).

Any thoughts or suggestions are extremely welcome. ${\displaystyle \sim }$ Lenoxus " * " 15:15, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I think you are right. I wrote the article in an hour, and clearly it needs someone more dedicated to reading the liteature surrounding the time. I love Wikipidia because its factual and ignores biases, because ppl always check it. I want others to re-edit, and recreate it, because thats the point of wiki. --Juju 15:45, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
also i think my main problem with the one prior to my revision...was it was acting like the word 'hipster' was a tribe of individuals, which it is not. it is clearly a label. people do not commonly refer to themselves as hipster, rather it is a stereotype applied to ppl. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jujucabana (talkcontribs) 15:47, 23 March 2007 (UTC).
Your understanding is definitely appreciated, and "people do not commonly refer to themselves as hipster" is an excellent point; now I get to munch on that one for a bit… — ${\displaystyle \sim }$ Lenoxus " * " 05:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I most certainly agree this needs a rewrite of the most dramatic order. This current article is so full of fluff and lack of anything remotely resembling information. IMHO, the first thing to be done would be vast revisions to the history/orgins section. African etymology would have a place in the Hipster (1940s subculture), but seems to slow down the content even further. I also believe that this should be a wikiproject. FerventDove 16:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
i think another problem with the page is that ppl just have too many long quotes, someone should read it through and rewrite it. alot of the quotes are about 'hipsters' and are from credible authors rather then urban dictionary, but i dont think a paragraph quote, or actually any quote should really be on the page. i know i put a few quotes, actually alot, so i am also part of the problem. but i think its hard because so many people disagree with the credible authors and sources; and would be much happier if we just rewrote what urban dictionary has posted on their website.--Juju 22:35, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I've been keeping an eye on the contemporary article, which is even more of a mess than the 40s one. imho, I think that the split shouldn't be 1940s/contemporary, as the term was used in the decades in between as well. I'd rather have one long article doing the history, doing the etymology, and another SHORT article doing the contemporary denotation. The current contemporary article is a disaster in part because people want to turn it into a huge list of 1) famous hipsters 2) hipster icons and 3) hipster hangouts. It's really bad. I think the contemp. article should really just be one well-sourced paragraph that can link to other pages like indie or whatever. Nick 03:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey don't delete the long quotes. I spent 1/2 hour typesetting the quote from Marty Jezer. It's good. What's wrong with quotes? Britannica uses them all the time. So does the OED. Morgan Wright 21:12, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

i still think the quotes shouldn't be that long, you should paraphrase it. and also someone should paraphrase my quotes. i think kangaru99 is onto the right idea. i think the page should obviously be combined, he brought up some good points, that the word hipster has been used for many times in-between contemporary and 1940s. also i should be working on my final, since it is nearly 1Am. --Juju 04:41, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Heeeeeeel no to combining them. They are two completely different things. It would be like combining napolean the emperor with napolean the baked goods. Also, don't paraphrase the quotes, you can't paraphrase quotes. It wouldn't be a quote, and it would be plagiarism Morgan Wright 00:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

## Redirect

Can we just have the general "hipster" redirect to Hipster (contemporary subculture) already? This page can be made to "Hipster (disambiguation)" Most people who are searching for hipster are looking for the current subculture. Thoughts?

-130.130.37.84 (talk) 04:24, 5 June 2012 (UTC)