Talk:Hispaniola
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Contents
Controversy[edit]
Perhaps it should be mentioned that the island was officially name Hispanola without full consent of both governments? The island was named by the United States Geographic Board. Apparently each country had their own idea for a name but the U.S. ignored both and unilaterally named the island. I have seen various websites which state this, yet I can find nothing of the such from the U.S.G.B. website. Perhaps someone can chime in and also decide whether or not this caveat should be mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by El Mayimbe (talk • contribs) 02:36, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
- Named after Spain by Columbus. "When Columbus took possession of the island, he named it La Isla Española, meaning "The Spanish Island".[4] Las Casas shortened the name to "Española"." Not a great mystery. Already there. Student7 (talk) 14:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Just because a European named it, doesn't mean it is official. That is a pretty Euro-centric view. The island was named Haiti and/or Quisqueya by the Arawak tribes. After D.R.'s independence the island was referred to in many documents as Quisqueya, it is even in the National Hymn, yet Haiti and the D.R. could not agree on a name for the shared island. This led the U.S. to rename it Hispañola, with out the consent of the before mentioned Sovereign countries.
Also, Hispañola as you mention means The Spanish Island, when it is clearly not, as of 1865. To begin 2/3 of the island are Dominicans not Spaniards and the other 1/3 of the island are Haitians, which don't speak Spanish. So, unless I am missing something here, this is controversial.
I don't know where you hail from but if you're American it would be as if the French named the United States, The British States or United States of Britain (with out consent or approval).
Yet, I will admit that the naming of the island is clearly not the priority of the two developing countries. Nonetheless this caveat ought to be mentioned. This is after all an unbiased resource, no?
--El Mayimbe (talk) 01:34, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
If no other response, or no reply from Student7 in one week I'll add a sub-section to the Etymology. --El Mayimbe (talk) 14:54, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
- I don't know if you have noticed, but most places in the Western Hemisphere have been named "by Europeans." While there may have been some attempt to preserve the native name, this could not be done with anything approaching precision because there was no written language. No one really knows what the natives called anything. Vowels tend to float, so what the natives called it in 1200 would not be the name in 1500 anyway. Suggesting that the name was "chosen" by the United States is without merit. There was no "United States" prior to 1776 and it was called Hispaniola prior to that time. The name was preserved to the present day for a generic name in lieu of any other name. Student7 (talk) 13:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
I want to add, that Dominican, and I mean actually Dominicans (those born and raised in the Dominican Republic) do not recognize the name Hispaniola, in contrast to Dominican Americans who are the main promoters of that name. In fact, the name Hispaniola is not used in Latin America for the post part, and the island is known as Santo Domingo in The Dominican republic or Saint Domingue in Haiti (there is also a sector in Haiti that calls the Island Haiti). The name Hispaniola in itself is only used by English Speaking countries and in some cases by Spain. The Name Hispaniola as someone else mention early was officially assign to the Island by The United State government. In Addition, that person who said that Columbus gave the Island that name is also wrong, He named it La Española, not "Hispaniola" the word Hsipaniola came from the British Colonist Empire at the time. And the name "La Española" caught up instead it was referred as by the Spanish Empire and their inhabitants. Saint Domingue is not a different name but merely the French translation for Santo Domingo. If you ask a Dominican or Haitian from the countryside of each country what or where is the so called Hispaniola Island it is very likely that they will not know what you are talking about or that the island is called that by some English speaking countries. If you search for Spanish or French articles about the island you will find that most of them if not all of them refereed to it as Santo Domingo in Spanish and Saint Domigue in French. link here (http://www.fortunecity.es/felices/margarita/3/geografia/nombre.html)
"Posteriormente, se generalizó el uso de llamar a La Española como Isla de Santo Domingo, debido a que su principal ciudad tenía el nombre de Santo Domingo. Este nombre se impuso firmemente desde principios del siglo XVI y durante los siglos XVII y XVIII, usándose de una manera universal en español, francés (traducido como Ile de Saint-Domingue) y otros idiomas. En los tratados entre Francia y España sobre la división de la isla en dos colonias, como el de Aranjuez en 1777 y el de Basilea en 1783, se dice la isla de Santo Domingo. Con la proclamación de la independencia de la colonia francesa de Saint-Domingue en 1804, se escogió el nombre de Haití para la nueva república como una manera de romper con el pasado. Al ocupar, en 1822, la parte oriental de la isla, los gobiernos haitianos impusieron el nombre de Haití para toda la isla pero, al proclamarse la independencia de la República Dominicana en 1844, volvió a decirse "Isla de Santo Domingo" en la parte oriental. Es decir, que por décadas la isla tuvo dos nombres: Haití y Santo Domingo. El nombre con que fue bautizada la isla por Colón, La Española, cayó en el desuso. En 1891, la Junta Geográfica (U.S. Geographic Board) de los Estados Unidos tomó la decisión de aceptar el nombre de Haití para toda la isla para todos los documentos cartográficos producidos en dicho país.
Pero el uso de Haití trajo muchas confusiones ya que podía referirse a toda la isla o a uno de los países que forman parte de la isla.
La Junta Geográfica de Estados Unidos, en el año 1933 decidió, por medio de su Sexto Informe, que la isla completa sería llamada Hispaniola en la cartografía oficial de ese país.
Sobre el nombre Hispaniola, el Dr. Vetilio Alfau Durán escribió lo siguiente:
Pedro Mártir de Anglería escribió sus obras en el idioma del Lacio. Así es que las ediciones de las Décadas, así como sus otras obras, aparecieron siempre en latín.
En ellas, por esa causa, se lee Hispania y no España al referise a la Península Ibérica; Hispaniola, y no Española, cuando habla de a la isla.
En varios idiomas aparecieron las obras de Mártir de Anglería debidamente traducidas: inglés, francés, italiano, etc.
La primera traducción al español data del año 1892. En esa traducción se lee España, en donde dice Hispania. Y se lee, aludiendo a nuestra isla, La Española, en donde Pedro Mártir de Anglería, en el idioma del Lacio, escribía Hispaniola.
== Pero, ¿por qué se divulgó y arraigó en el mundo de habla inglesa el nombre de Hispaniola como el de nuestra isla?
Porque la obra de Pedro Mártir de Anglería fue traducida al inglés en el propio siglo XVI. La traducción de la Década Cuarta tiene el siguiente título: "of Cuba, Hispaniola, and other Islands in the West Indies sea..." Las ediciones inglesas conservaron, como es natural y lógico, la ortografía de los nombres propios: Cuba, Borinquén, Quizquella. Por eso los traductores no se detuvieron, y escribieron Hispaniola, como lo vieron en el texto latino. == "
- English Wikipedia. We use common English names for places: Rome for Roma, Florence for Firenze, Austria for Oesterreich, Japan for Nippon, Norway for Norge, etc. Student7 (talk)
With all due respect, you are wrong. Unintentionally or not You are using a "straw man" argument, with informal fallacy based on biased misrepresentation of the other guy above you's position, twisting his words for your Own benefit. People don't use different names in English for places, you simply translate the name, so if you are going to go by that logic you should call the Island "Saint Domingue" or "Saint Sunday" not Hispaniola, which is not a English name by the way but a different name all together that is not official and only used mainly in one particular country, The US of A. Or do you can call Los Angeles "The Angels"? or "Saint James" for San Diego?, or Reddish" for Colorado?. Insisting in Using the name Hispaniola and disragrding the official name just because, it's clrealy a American-Centric, and that type of Adtittude does not belong in Wikipedia whether this is the english version or not (Other countries speak English too.)
- Please sign your comments with four tildes.
- Commonly used place names in English not only will be used but must be used according to English Wikipedia guidelines. If you can show that English speakers use some other name, with a WP:RS reference, that is fine, but English does not always use "translations" when it has been using a name, however "wrongly", for years or decades or centuries. I was trying to demonstrate a typical "wrong" use of names above, but you objected. We call Los Angeles by that term because we have done so for years. If it turned out that it "should" have been llos Angeles, we will not change Wikipedia. Los Angeles (and not it's English translation) has been in English common use. Student7 (talk) 15:20, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi, everyone, I think Studnet7 is been a bit irational, You are set in an idea and there simply is now way for you to rationally even consider others people's opinions. from what I see the guy above has presented facts, sources to back what he is saying, Moreover, upon reading the cosntitiion of the countries that inhabit the island I's realisd that the name in their constitiontion is Santo Domingo. Also, you say "commonly used names in English" but you are faling you see the opin of the discussion. This isn';t about the english languagem, since not all English Speaking countries refer to the island as Hispaniola. You should have said "commonly used names in The United States". and I agree with the comment above there are other countries besides the United States that also Speak English. it is like if Canada passed a law saying you know what from now on we are going to call the United States, 'Wachitopy', so does that mean thath becuase Canadians call The United States Wachitopy that all countries should call it that nad taht will be their offical name form then on? After all Canadians Speak English so since they Speka English that most be the way all English Speaking countries should call the United States, right? see what I am getting at? I personally thing that there need to be some type of explanation in the Article, that explicitly states, this name is used in The United States for this ot that reason and this name is used in Haiti/The Dominicna Republic for this or that and that other name is used in the rest of the world. comment added by Marcopolololo (talk • contribs)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Hispaniola — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcopolololo (talk • contribs) 23:02, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
- Those for or against renaming this article "Haiti" or "Quisqueya" or "Santo Domingo" (not sure we have a new title in mind yet) had best be part of this discussion. Go to link above. Student7 (talk) 23:53, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Comments by an outsider[edit]
I am an uninvolved administrator who came here to help. I see a large section above, claiming a controversy, but I don't understand its purpose. Could someone clarify, as concisely as possible what edits or article moves are requested to be made? Materialscientist (talk) 01:46, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is a very good question. I am the "target" of this request, but my last edit was in September which didn't seem controversial. I have to go back to 2010 to find anything that might be considered disagreeing with anyone.
- It would be helpful if the plaintiffs would state what it is they are looking for in precise language. 1) the current state of the article that they don't like, precisely. 2) the state they desire, precisely. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 15:17, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
- I stumbled upon this only by corresponding on Student7's talk page. "Hispaniola" is how virtually all norteamericanos refer to the island. It might be controversial to Dominicans and Haitians--but no more so than our trait of calling "America" the single country that Latinos call los Estados Unidos, America to them being the land we call "the Americas." But this is the English-language Wikipedia (based in the US) and nearly everyone wanting information on this island (as opposed to the two nations) will use this name. If there are better native names for the island (presumably there is a Spanish one and a French one), it's certainly unobjectionable to define them too, as redirects to this article. Spike-from-NH (talk) 02:01, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Agreeing with Spike -- Using "Hispaniola" for the island solves a potential confusion among the many overlapping names existing on the island -- Santo Domingo (city or island?), Dominica (country or island?), Haiti (country or island?), etc. -- Craig Goodrich 216.10.193.22 (talk) 13:46, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
- I stumbled upon this only by corresponding on Student7's talk page. "Hispaniola" is how virtually all norteamericanos refer to the island. It might be controversial to Dominicans and Haitians--but no more so than our trait of calling "America" the single country that Latinos call los Estados Unidos, America to them being the land we call "the Americas." But this is the English-language Wikipedia (based in the US) and nearly everyone wanting information on this island (as opposed to the two nations) will use this name. If there are better native names for the island (presumably there is a Spanish one and a French one), it's certainly unobjectionable to define them too, as redirects to this article. Spike-from-NH (talk) 02:01, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Post-columbian section[edit]
In the Post-columbian section the following sentence needs to be fixed grammatically. I can't read between the lines enough to know what was intended to be said: "In the part of France with Spain, represented by Domingo d'Yriarte) on 22 July, ending the War of the Pyrenees." Liberato (talk) 01:39, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
La Isabela[edit]
La Isabela was not the first permanent European settlement in the New World. It was abandoned after a year or two because it was in a totally unsuitable location. I deleted the "permanent" in this sentence for that reason. Columbus and the colonists then moved to Santo Domingo, which did become the first permanent European settlement. These claims that both Isabela and Santo Domingo were first settlements were in sequential paragraphs and led the reader to think they were contradictory. My source for this information is Admiral of the Ocean Sea by Samuel Eliot Morison, Boston: Little Brown and Company, 1942. There is a note on the Isabela settlement that a citation is needed. It is on page 428 of Admiral of the Ocean Sea. I will leave it up to you experts to get that in the text. DreamersRose (talk) 06:26, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Just a point, I often see things like this: "The natives had no immunity to European diseases, including smallpox,[11] and entire tribes were destroyed.[12] " which appears in your article here. However, right before this there is the other stock thing about african slaves. So the question is why are the diseases called European when they could have been African or even Arabian in origin? Just something to ponder. My suggestion is that this line should be changed to take out the slander against Europe implied by calling the diseases that harmed people in Hispaniola 'European'. Perhaps you could say 'Old World' or something else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.118.25 (talk) 01:06, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
How was it and its mountains formed?[edit]
Could someone add the geologic formation process/orogeny (volcanic, fold, etc.) of Hispaniola's mountains or the island itself? It seems difficult to find how the island and/or mountains were created.
I've looked on the pages for Cordillera Central, Dominican Republic, the Dominican Republic, Pico Duarte, Greater Antilles and can't seem to find much information on the topic. This website seems to have some information: http://specialpapers.gsapubs.org/content/262/1.abstract Bush6984 (talk) 21:48, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
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