Talk:History of the Uyghur people

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search


Why is this page claiming that the Karakhanid Khanate is a Uyghur Kingdom? I have read a few books on this subject and none of them say anything about Uyghurs? It is primarily a confederation of Karluks, Chigils, and Yaghma tribes. Hzh (talk) 02:47, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I came here to say this exact same thing. I am now deleting it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:14, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Well the text has already been restored because I didn't explain my reasoning. The connection of the Qara Qanids is too dubious to include it in whole in the history section. It may deserve a passing mention. If it is going to be here, you have to present some compelling research to us about the Yaghma connection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:36, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Uyghur was introduced as a nationality in the 1930s[edit]

21:15, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Chinese wikipedia's policy on Historical Uyghur related articles[edit]

People who were called Uyghur "Huihu" 回鶻 at the time of the Uyghur Khaganate, get linked to Uyghur Khaganate. So Bayanchur Khan will get linked to Uyghur Khaganate for his ethnicity.回鹘

People who were called wèiwùér 畏兀儿 at the time of the Kingdom of Qocho, get linked to Kingdom of Qocho. So Wang Baobao's mother's ethnicity is linked to Kingdom of Qocho in Chinese wikipedia.畏兀儿

Note that Old Uyghur alphabet is called Huihu script and not Old Wéiwú'ěr script in Chinese wikipedia.回鹘文字母

Modern Uyghurs get linked to the modern Uyghur people article维吾尔族

The Old Uyghur language has its own separate article from modern Uyghur, on the Chinese, German, Russian and Uzbek wikipedias but nobody created an article about it on English wikipedia yet.

Chinese wikipedia calls it "Huihu" language 回鹘语, and indicates that this was spoken in the Kingdom of Qocho (Gaochang)回鹘语

There are also a Chinese, Russian, and Turkish wikipedia articles on the language of the Turkic Khaganate, Chinese wikipedia calls it "Tujue" language. Note that it is an entirely different article from the Old Turkic language article.突厥语

In fact the Chinese article linked to the English Old Turkic language article is a disambiguation page, it lists Tujue language, 回紇 Huihe language (alternate name for Uyghur Khaganate language), and (Gaochang) Huihu language突厥-回鹘语

Rajmaan (talk) 22:11, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

History of Uygh-ur[edit]

Uyghur. After Goturk lost against Muslim Armies, the Uyghur converted to Islam and rebelled, creating the Uyghur Khaganate in 744. In 1209 they declared vassals of Genghis Khan. The Uyghur are mixed with haplogroup 34% J Middle East, 21% R, 10% Chinese, 6% mongol, 5% Uralic and 5% Turk; the women 50% Asiatic.

The Uyghur are descendants of the Tocharian-red haired people who conquered the Gansu pass and West China, called Xirong and then Yuezhi in China. Part of the Yuezhi were pushed out by the Xiongnu-Hünnü to the Ili River (east Kazakhstan) during the 2nd century BCE (the Gansu was repopulated by Wusun as Xiongnu vassals and they became allies of the Han dynasty). From the Ili River were pushes out by the Wusun in 133 BCE. The Yuezhi-Yue Chi-Tocharians are pushed to the current Tajikstan were they form the Kushan Empire around 30 CE from Khwarezm to Pakistan and north India. The Kushan were conquered by Hephthalites, white Hun, or Huna people for Indian, forming the Hephthalite Empire from India to Khwarezm, (the Xionites or Kidari or “red Hun” in Tokharistan, current Tajikistan, were the center of the Hephthalite Empire-White Hun). The Hephtahlite are finally incorporated into the Gotürk Empire. The fall of the Gotürk open the door to the independence of Sogdiana+Tukhara (old Hephthalite and Xionite, red and white hun), Kwarezm and Khazars (Kwarezm and all books were destroyed in the Muslim conquer). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:63:2A40:7201:58A5:9972:E179:AB13 (talk) 15:35, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Can you tell me where you are getting this information from? Seems kind of vague and POV like, not only that but the Kushans you speak about found their empire in Afghanistan and the Hepthalites themselves were their descendants. Akmal94 (talk) 21:17, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

I am going to make a point to remove all this Tocharian nonsense. Uighurs arrived in 840. (talk) 03:07, 6 January 2017 (UTC)John Dee

What you are saying is compelling, but completely unsupported (talk) 03:09, 6 January 2017 (UTC)John Dee

Kara Khanids[edit]

The Karluks and Basmils defeated the Uighurs in 840. The Uighurs retreated into the Tarim Basin, probably with the Sogdian elements that had taken refuge with them (which explains the culture of Qocho). The Karluks and Basmils moved into Sogdia when pushed by the Krygyz out of Mongolia. Therefore you have these distinct cultures, Qocho, Qara Khanids, and Krygyz who had all previously been fighting eachother. The Yagmhas were associated with the Toquz Oghuz who previously inhabited Trans-Oxiana. The Wikipedia page for them mentions them in the Kashgar in the 9th century. It would be interesting to connect them with the Uighurs and study this more. But to consider them as and extension of Uighurs is rediculous, plus I doubt they even played enough of a role in the Qara Khanids to consider it Uighur. (talk) 05:14, 5 January 2017 (UTC) John Dee

When Kara Khanids is removed, only "Kingdom of Qocho" is left in the Uighur Kingdom section. Therefore, the section can be retitled Kingdom of Qocho, which will fit nicely after the Uighur Khaganate. The citation of Millward which includes Uighurs being associated with the yaghmas, which is useful information, will be moved elsewhere. The Kara Khanids, and their history, will be removed. (talk) 18:04, 6 January 2017 (UTC)John Dee

Your reliable sources for your contentions being... where? You keep removing content and declaring that you know better, but you've not cited a single source to support your theory/WP:OR. You will move a source elsewhere. Please read WP:OWN... but, bear in mind that you are being reverted by editors who actions are WP:STEWARDSHIP. Removing content because you WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT is not an option. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:32, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
I have begun corresponding with the author of the source. During discourse, my issue with this became clear, and I feel rather silly for even bringing it up with him. The claim that the Uighur people MAY be connected with the Qara Khanids through the [Yagmha], "one component" of the Khaganate, does not warrant it being included in the "Uighur Kingdoms" section. The Qara Khanids are not a "Uighur Kingdom". That is why I am recommending moving this statement, and removing overall the summary of the Qara Khanids, which will be hyperlinked anyways. Thus the Kingdom of Qocho is the only "Uighur Kingdom" left, and can become it's own section. (talk) 03:40, 8 January 2017 (UTC)John Dee
Ok, Ok, I will get some sources, hold on. (talk) 03:42, 8 January 2017 (UTC)John Dee

Here is an interesting little snibbit from our conversation: "I certainly see no reason to exclude discussion of the Qarakhanids from Uyghur history. Nor do the Uyghurs: their shrines and popular histories embrace Satuq Bughra Khan, for example." (talk) 03:58, 8 January 2017 (UTC)John Dee

I am backing down because of the above quote, but I am still looking for a way to disprove it as a Uighur kingdom. (talk) 05:23, 8 January 2017 (UTC)John Dee

Incoherent statement[edit]

"The Uyghur claim is based partly on a word, which they argued to be Uyghur, found in written scripts associated with these mummies"

This hardly makes sense. The mummies pre-date literacy in the Tarim Basin by thousands of years and there are no "written scripts" found with them. Somebody has evidently gotten confused, but was it the Uyghur nationalists or the Wikipedia editor? RandomCritic (talk) 16:58, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

While I don't have access to the cited text, these are other observations from the same compilation. It certainly reads as some form of WP:SYNTH over academically contested premises. I'm tagging the relevant statement for both clarification and cite verification. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 19:28, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on History of the Uyghur people. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

YesY An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:40, 5 November 2017 (UTC)