Talk:Eighth generation of video game consoles

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NX[edit]

"NX" has subsequently been published under the trade name "Nintendo Switch". To continue this discussion, please start a "New Topic" with the current brand. This discussion contains at least one 404 link. — Sleyece 18:57:59, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Once The NX is revealed will the 9th Gen get a page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.93.114 (talk) 02:33, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

No, because there wouldn't be anything to put on it except for the NX. Itd just be another NX article. It'd be WP:TOOSOON. Sergecross73 msg me 02:54, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Eventually, but not tomorrow. Tomorrow is unlikely to reveal enough information for such a page. -AnonWikiEditor (talk) 03:14, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Shouldn't we include the Switch here? Most people seem to be considering it as part of the 8th generation, in the same vein as the PS4 Pro and the Xbox Scorpio. It seems like we either need to include the Switch as part of the 8th gen or break out the PS4 Pro/Scorpio into a new 9th gen article, but the latter doesn't seem warranted. Wicka wicka (talk) 12:46, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
We're still waiting for sources to call it. See Talk:Nintendo Switch#Ninth Generation? -- ferret (talk) 12:49, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
No, reliable sources aren't generally saying that, so neither should we. Sergecross73 msg me 12:56, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
Who the hell are the "reliable sources" who discuss console generations? Wicka wicka (talk) 02:14, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
Not to mention the fact that no other generation has such sources. -AnonWikiEditor (talk) 02:15, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
1) I'm guessing that you haven't read the article itself lately, or you'd know there's sources in it that state this stuff. Like this. 2) You need to be patient. While sources will come, they're not necessarily going to be written the week after the product is announced. Only one week has passed from its initial reveal. It isn't even due for release for another 5 months, and there aren't any other entries in this "9th gen" yet - it's extremely early on. More will be written once new systems are actually announced and released. Sergecross73 msg me 02:28, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
That source is not in the article. -AnonWikiEditor (talk) 17:38, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Okay? I thought that's where I found it, but if not...that doesn't really change anything... Sergecross73 msg me 17:56, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
This random games website is a "reliable source?" In what world? I was asking a serious question: who are the authoritative sources that discuss video game console generations? It's certainly not "Game Revolution dot com." You say you are waiting for reliable sources. Who would that be? Who discusses this stuff, other than Wikipedia? Wicka wicka (talk) 17:27, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Game Revolution is reliable/usable per consensus at the WikiProject level - WP:VG/S. There's plenty others, that was merely one I found right away in this very article. The rest of your argument is a logical fallacy - per WP:V, everything is supposed to be sourced, and complaints about scarcity of sources or other instances where there aren't sources doesn't change that. Sergecross73 msg me 17:33, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Nielsen Corporation is certainly more of an authority on data, and they use it here too. There's many out there. If you do any searching on your own, you'd see it too. Sergecross73 msg me 17:56, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
It's not a logical fallacy just because idiotic wiki policies claim so. Asking for relevant examples isn't a logical fallacy, it's a reasonable request. Support your point intelligently without copy/pasting wiki policies. I literally could not care less. And don't ever again pull out that "if you had done any searching of your own" nonsense. Be a grown up and actually support your point. That's not my job. Even then, your Nielsen "source" is bogus. It's just using the term "8th gen" in an entirely unrelated article. You find me a reliable third-party source that actually defines console generations or stop acting like you're hot shit. Wicka wicka (talk) 22:27, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Yes, it is a logical fallacy, because like it or not, as long as we're discussing on Wikipedia talk pages, about Wikipedia articles, we need to discuss within the confines of Wikipedia policy. We're not randomly musing about video games, we're discussing how to build an encyclopedia. Complain all you want, but citing policy and providing source examples is how we discuss here. Sergecross73 msg me 22:52, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
In short - you say we can't make a call as to whether the Switch is an 8th or 9th gen console until a reliable source says so. I would like to find such a source. So, tell me, what does that kind of source look like? Which ones have we used in the past? And, again, I'm asking for sources defining console generations, not ones that simply use the terms. Wicka wicka (talk) 22:30, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
A conundrum with generations is that we believe that Wikipedia is partially responsible for the terms and segregation, at least up through the sixth generation; the video game media picked up how we broke it down and stuck with it. With the seventh generation onward, the language became more commonly adapted by the media, and so we're at a point that it is now accepted knowledge (even IEEE has adapted it [1]. So there are definitions set, but keep in mind we partially influenced those. That said, to call the Switch a eighth- or ninth-gen console will need to come from a significant number (not just one or two) of the sources at WP:VG/S. --MASEM (t) 22:37, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
WP:VG/S outlines the type of sources that are deemed usable and unusable. If we find that sources are generally calling Switch 8th or 9th gen, we will apply the term appropriately. As far as finding sources that define the generations - do it yourself! Why am I doing this for you? I don't have questions about it. I'm merely telling you what it would take to apply 8th/9th gen to the Switch. Sergecross73 msg me 22:53, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
You are doing it because it is YOUR insistence, not mine, that it is required. I've yet to see a single source that defines a console generation. If you want to hold the article to that standard, then prove that standard exists, otherwise you are wrong and we can move on to more productive tasks. Wicka wicka (talk) 13:22, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
If you want to start up a separate discussion about dissolving the 8th gen article because you personally can't find sufficient sourcing to define it, be my guest. (And good luck, you'll need it.) But what we need in respect to the Nintendo Switch are just sources that state the system is part of the generation. Sergecross73 msg me 14:08, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
I'm not suggesting that, doofus. I'm saying that the standard you're setting simply does not exist. Wicka wicka (talk) 17:50, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
If you're not suggesting that, then you don't need a source outlining the entire gen. Just sources directly calling Switch part of a gen. Side note: Wikipedia has a no personal attacks policy, so please no petty name-calling. Sergecross73 msg me 18:41, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
That source is 404. IRMacGuyver (talk) 17:18, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add a Micro-console section[edit]

I believe a Microconsole section should be added to this article. Nintendo Switch is technically a Micro-Console. Also, there are Shield TV, Apple TV, PlayStation TV, etc. --Ne0 (talk) 07:00, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

I've never seen Switch referred to as a micro-console, but instead as a hybrid console. Either way, reliable sources haven't referred to Switch as "Eighth generation". This is required for any console (Including the microconsoles above) to be listed here. If they haven't been categorized as "eighth", they should be omitted. -- ferret (talk) 13:19, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
Are you suggesting Microconsole/Hybrid-Console should be it's own console generation ? Then we should create a Microconsole template: Template:Video_game_consoles. --Ne0 (talk) 09:59, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
No, he/we're suggesting they don't belong anywhere without a source verifying they belong in a generation, per WP:V. Sergecross73 msg me 11:37, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
Some of those have been listed in the past, but I've removed them on the grounds of being unsourced. If you can provide sources that literally state "Console X is part of the 8th generation of video games" then we can discuss re-adding. Switch is rarely called 8th gen and never called a "Micro-Console", so that's definitely out though. There's a big debate on-going about what to do with Switch, but the consensus backed by Wikipedia policy at the moment is to wait and see what reliable sources say about it, so right now, we're holding off on putting it anywhere. Sergecross73 msg me 13:41, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
No. Plus Switch will go on the eventual 9th generation page anyway. -AnonWikiEditor (talk) 19:00, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
WRONG! 9th Gen consoles will arrive around 2020. Note that, PlayStation 4 Pro is still PlayStation 4 & Project Scorpio will still be XBox One, and they are NOT 9th gen ! --Ne0 (talk) 09:59, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
Neither of you are necessarily correct. These things have not been confirmed yet at all. You're both speculating. Sergecross73 msg me 11:37, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
I never said anything about PS4 or Scorpio. But Switch is 9th gen unless Wikipedia is taking it upon themselves to change the definition of the word generation. -AnonWikiEditor (talk) 20:19, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia doesn't define anything. Switch is whichever generation sources call it. We've been over this. -- ferret (talk) 20:24, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
Yes, exactly this. Sergecross73 msg me 20:26, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Nintendo Switch[edit]

Someone should update this page to include the Nintendo Switch and it's stats. Given the PS4 Pro model and Xbox One S model are listed as the same generation as their originals, it only makes sense that the Switch would be listed here as well. The PS4 Pro and Xbox One S models added performance over their existing models, for example a PS4 game might have a lower output resolution or lower framerate compared to running on a PS4 Pro. The Switch's undocked operational performance only matches the Wii U, and this has been demonstrated by Nintendo with ports of Wii U games such as Zelda and Mario Kart - while the docked performance seems to do little but increase the resolution or framerate, much like the Pro model PS4 or S model Xbox One do. Although it is not a specific upgrade over the Wii U given it no longer can read the same game discs as the Wii U, I think this is still enough to confidently place the Nintendo Switch in the Eighth Generation. 71.83.103.150 (talk) 20:48, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Read the discussions just above this one. -- ferret (talk) 20:53, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
Given that discussion not only went nowhere but also ended in November 2016, I don't see what you intended the meaning of your comment to be. 71.83.103.150 (talk) 21:01, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
When there's no consensus, there's no change. In this situation, that means its not included. We go by what reliable sources say, and they're still not consistently placing it in either/any generations. Sergecross73 msg me 21:09, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Do you have any reliable sourcing claiming that Switch is Eighth generation? This is where the discussions ended, both here and at Talk:Nintendo Switch. Nothing has changed since. Our own opinions or reasonings for why Switch would be or would not be eighth generation are irrelevant, we only report what reliable sources are saying. The listing of PS4 Pro and Xbox One S here is based on the fact that they are model iterations of existing eighth generation consoles rather than a new console, as the Switch is. -- ferret (talk) 21:11, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
Calling the Switch a new console is arguable and clearly muddies the definition and injects some uncertainty bias if there's no similar attribution towards the Xbox One S or Playstation 4 Pro. Aside from the lack of a second screen, the Switch is almost identical in performance as the Wii U. I'm not sure if the fact that it is also a portable handheld adds anything to it's definition when, although not "handheld", Xbox and Playstation have also received condensed smaller models. Even the Wii received a smaller model iteration, and that was released after the Wii U. If there is no clear definition for what separates console generations, why would there be expectation or acceptance for how an outside source would label the Switch? This uncertainty could be inviting to problems. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.83.103.150 (talk) 21:36, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
There's no doubt at all that the Switch is a new separate console from the Wii U. Its lack of better performance has nothing to do with that, and its a completely different hardware platform. All this is irrelevant though: There are no reliable sources calling it eighth generation, and Wikipedia doesn't decide such things. Wikipedia reports what sources say, not the other way around. -- ferret (talk) 21:54, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
The only thing the same between Wii U and Switch are their performance levels. Completely different hardware, processors, internal components, playable mediums, functionality, etc etc. Not that it matters, as already stated, that's not how we determine the generations on Wikipedia. But even if it was, your argument is extremely flawed. Sergecross73 msg me 12:35, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
But performance is how the generational leap is gauged. Feel free to play some mental gymnastics in attempt of proving otherwise, though. I'll give you a head start to say that the Wii was supposedly in the same generation as Xbox360 and PS3, despite just being re-purposed Gamecube architecture from the generation prior. If you argue the Switch is a new generation console because it has different guts under the hood, then you can't argue against the Wii not being a new generation console over the Gamecube. There's clearly some dysfunctional bias being pushed here to consider Nintendo's products somehow abiding by different standards than their competitors. If you consider the Wii as belonging to the same generation as the Gamecube and still think the Switch is their next generation console, it would still only mean the Switch is an 8th gen and the Wii U is now 7th gen. If you instead abandon any working semblance of comparison altogether and abide some arbitrary schematic that only serves to shine a positive light on Nintendo without reason, well that's just marketing and Wikipedia isn't the place for that. 71.83.103.150 (talk) 18:28, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
We're not arguing the Switch is 8th or 9th generation. We're arguing that reliable sources haven't placed it at all, and so it can't be included yet, in either generation. I'm not sure where the difficultly in understanding that is. Wikipedia doesn't decide where to place the Switch, reliable sources do. -- ferret (talk) 18:40, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Given the Switch runs on similar hardware as the Nvidia Shield which is mentioned in the article even as far as "not being considered eighth or even seventh gen", I think this conversation has reached it's point. I'm really hoping this isn't some blind brand loyalty, otherwise the article is already well written enough to fully accommodate how the Switch could be seen. If the Nvidia Shield is not considered a main table contender if only by honorable mention, and the Nvidia Shield's hardware has a higher performance limit than the Switch, then that says it all right there. 71.83.103.150 (talk) 18:53, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Are you even reading what we write? It has nothing to do with "brand loyalty" It has to do with the lack of reliable sources verifying the information. If you participated in more if these discussions, you'd know that there are great disagreements in how to classify the generations. Some, like you, say hardware power. Others say timeframe. Plenty of others have a lot of other crazy theories. With no formal agreement on how to define the generations, we default to the basic Wikipedia rules - "what sources say" and "consensus. We dont have either for Switch. Thus, no change is made, and it's not placed anywhere. Sergecross73 msg me 22:39, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Evidently you're not understanding what you're writing. What constitutes a reliable source for this topic? This is a question I posited earlier by casting light on the fact that the definition for this categorization is undefined, and you reinforce the confusion when saying there is "no formal agreement". This is virtually a "chicken or the egg" scenario. You want a reliable source to say where the Switch competes, yet you have no defined arbitration that could determine which source is or isn't reliable. I understand not wanting a bias, but a lack of objectivity is a bigger demon entirely. 71.83.103.150 (talk) 22:58, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Its not an ideal situation, no, but you propose no workable solutions either. We can't just go along with every random personal theory people propose on these talk pages. It'd be in a constant state of flux. Sergecross73 msg me 23:04, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Inaccurate Xbox One Weight[edit]

This article states that the Xbox One weighs 3.2 kg (7.0 lb). However I was unable to find an accurate source to confirm this. A lack of accurate source may mean that the weight of the console is totally bogus. I am a bit more than half certain that the Xbox One weighs more or less than that amount. Could someone please find an accurate source to confirm this specification.Stunts1990 (talk) 19:15, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Start a "9th Gen" Page for "Nintendo Switch" and "Ataribox"[edit]

Should a page for the current generation of consoles be started? As of E3 2017 there are two new post-8th Generation consoles, which have their own isolated hardware and software. Now may be the time to seek consensus on a separate article. -- Sleyece 18:57:59, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Not yet. There's a ton of discussions around about this, but basically, reliable sources aren't consistently calling them 9th gen, so neither should we. Sergecross73 msg me 19:11, 23 June 2017 (UTC)