Talk:Homo floresiensis

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After having read this article on 'Homo floresiensis' I must surmise its topic is not H.Floresiensis, but rather the LB1 specimen and its surrounding controversy. Reading it left me with the awkward sensation of being a witness to a dispute instead of having gained a degree of topical information. I would suggest a separate page is made that handles the LB1 specimen specifically or that the disputes are gathered in a section rather than pervading the entire article. This page has a distinctly substandard feel to it and should definately be revised. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:09, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't follow your argument. H.Floresiensis is, essentially, LB1. What would the article be about if it were not about LB1 and the debate about it? It's not as if we known anything about their culture, or language. Paul B (talk) 00:32, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
That's not entirely accurate; we know something about their culture. Associated faunal remains suggest that floresiensis hunted the dwarf elephants and Komodo dragons (Lieverman 2009). However, I agree that the debate should be included in the article. And I also agree that whoever reads or wants to learn about the controversial floresiensis remains, is almost immediately invited to take sides in the controversy. - Boneyard90 (talk) 14:38, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
That they were hunter-gatherers is fairly basic. I guess it could be called "culture" in a very broad sense, but I meant we know nothing about culture that's distinctive to them. The fact they hunted local animals is hardly distinctive. Pretty nearly every culture in the world does it, and it is already present in the article. If the IP could say what "topical information" they think it missing, it might help. Paul B (talk) 17:29, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Elaboration on Down syndrome hypothesis[edit]

This page goes into strong detail about many of the proposed hypotheses for the origin of H. floresiensis, but the 'Down syndrome hypothesis' section is a little neglected (likely due to the recentness of the proposal). I have three suggested areas of improvement:

1. More details should be included about the specific physical attributes which led researchers to believe Down syndrome was the pathology at work (i.e. facial asymmetry, endocranial volume, brachycephaly, flat feet)

2. It also might be important to include that the researchers found previous published measurements regarding stature and endocranial volume were biased downward; their corrected measurements actually put Down syndrome within the realm of possibility.

3. Also to be discussed is the fact that the projected statures of LB1 and other associated specimens are within the normal ranges for this region, though indeed at the low end. On the other hand, the endocranial capacity of LB1 is several standard deviations below the norm (which would suggest a developmental pathology such as Down syndrome).

--Horbaly.5 (talk) 16:31, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Horbaly.5, I look forward to your expansion of this section (though I don't myself subscribe to the hypothesis). Regarding your point 3, however, you'll need to deal with the issue that it only logically applies if LB1 is presupposed to be H. sapiens. If LB1 is actually a non-pathological specimen of a different species, there is no reason to expect its endocranial capacity to fall within the sapiens norm: presumably the original papers address this point. (FWIW, my money is currently on floresiensis really being a directly derived Australopithecus rather than descended via Homo.) {The poster formerly known as} (talk) 15:34, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Pov in lead[edit]

The first sentence states "Homo floresiensis ("Flores Man"; nicknamed "hobbit" and "Flo") is widely believed to be an extinct species in the genus Homo." I don't think we should be saying that. Most of the lead seems to be pushing the separate species article. And finally, too many paragrahs, 4 is the normal maximum. See WP:LEAD. Dougweller (talk) 15:15, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Why don't you think so? Yes, there are nay-sayers. No-one disputes that. Of course the fact that there are so many alternative theories, even those that are no longer credible, means they get a 'disproportionate' amount of coverage, but that may be inevitable. Paul B (talk) 23:05, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
I see no POV issue. It's pretty well established among the majority of anthropologists that H. floresiensis is a separate species. You can cite a few diehards that are against the idea, but they are a minority, and they're not even unified on how to classify the recovered specimens. Besides, the article title pretty much establishes the Flores hominins as a separate species. So if nothing else, the lead sentence isn't describing the hominin specimens, so much as defining the term Homo floresiensis. But again, no POV. - Boneyard90 (talk) 13:17, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I can see that this backs the lead. I'm still not sure that the dispute should be so low. Does [1] about the actual origin need to be used? Dougweller (talk) 16:54, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
The source is a report of the original Nature piece at [2], so it would be better to use that. Presumably if Stringer is right, it should really be Austrolopithecus floresiensis! Dudley Miles (talk) 17:13, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
It's amazing enough to find a direct descendent of H. erectus at such a late date, but a member of genus Australopithecus, with a 2+ million year gap between the last agreed on member of Australopithecus and sp.floresiensis? That's not just ridiculous, it lacks even a shred of credible evidence to support it. - Boneyard90 (talk) 21:17, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

There is an RFC that may affect this page[edit]

There is an RFC that may affect this page at WikiProject Tree of Life. The topic is Confusion over taxonomy of subtribe Panina and taxon homininae (are chimps hominins)?

Please feel free to comment there. SPACKlick (talk) 16:40, 20 March 2015 (UTC)