Talk:Hors d'oeuvre

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Who decided that zakuski should be translated as hors d'oeuvres? They are decidedly not, by definition. Hors d'oeuvres presuppose the existence of the main meal, of which they are outside. Zakuski are used to chase vodka, and make up the entirety of the meal. All the food served as part of a meal that also includes vodka is considered zakuski. The most correct translation is "chasers", with the clarification that beverages used as chasers in other cultures do not qualify. EAE (Holla!) 21:44, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

That might have been a confusion of Russian zokuska.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:21, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
I found a source[1] that contradicts the above old claim Eaefremov. The book: "Revisiting the Shadows: Memoirs from War-torn Poland to the Statue of Liberty" by Irene Shapiro, on page 276, the author describes Zakuski as a sour salty hors d'oeuvre. An hors d'oeuvre does not have a true prerequisite and can be defined in many ways. It seems that by definition zakuski is an hors d'oeuvre depending on is use.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:06, 21 December 2015 (UTC)


History section needed[edit]

The reason why I looked up this article was I wanted to read up on the history of appetizers. Basically every wiki article has a history section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:14, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

inconsistency with Bruschetta[edit]

On the main page of Hors d'oeuvre the image of Bruschetta says origin France, if you go to Bruschetta itself it says it's Italy. I'm not so sure about the origin. Thanks! --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 08:28, 18 September 2015 (UTC)


Should the word hors d'oeuvre be italicized per the MOS?--Mark Miller (talk) 03:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Nope. Per the MOS: "...for isolated foreign words that do not yet have everyday use in non-specialized English".. I believe it is safe to say this word is common in non specialized English.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:10, 21 December 2015 (UTC)


No references found for: Korean jeonchae. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 11:23, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

"outside the work" explained with the progression of this custom[edit]

I think I have the full, historic explanation of the term but please feel free to read through it. It basically has to do with the style of the way a dinner was served all at once with everything laid out on different plates in a very particular and symmetric manner, placing specific, secondary dishes between the main course plates within the main "work" of the dinner service for each guest. The Hors d'oeuvre was introduced during this period on small dishes that were set outside that rigged placement of plated foods or "Outside the work". It took me some time to find the right sources that explained everything and jived with each other but I believe the explanation of etremets evolving into the British "savoury" that took the place of the hors d'oeuvre that was popular before the meal in Europe and was served at the end of the meal and just before the heavier drinking. This fell out of favor when drinks before dinner became popular and cocktail parties began to become popular and fashionable. Americans were late to the party because of prohibition but took the traditions in the current direction we see today with platters of canapés on trays that are sometimes passed around the room. It was a lot of fun to research. I've been wanting to look into this history for a while and was very surprised at the state of the article when TAFI found it. Good catch! Very topical for the season.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:59, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Māori section incorrect.[edit]

In New Zealand, Entrée means appetizer. Te Reo Māori translation for appetizer is "kumamatanga". Interestingly, the reference given is technically still correct. "Snacks" is also ambiguous. This is my first post on wikipedia. Trickmott (talk) 20:46, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

"Etymology" section should be titled "History"[edit]

A section titled "Etymology" should be about the meaning of the individual words in the term. What is the meaning of the words "hors" and "d'oeuvre" in this context? How did they come to be applied to this particular food item? The "etynology" section of this article covers none of that. It merely gives the history of hors d'oeuvres. Therefore it seems to me that it should be re-titled "History".Beetfarm Louie (talk) 15:20, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Mishmash article[edit]

While it may have occasionally been steered into an article on French customs in particular, the need for a general "appetizer" article has endured for as long as this one has existed. The link "appetizer", used on many articles within its own category, currently redirects to this article. Okay, why this one? I don't often see "hors d'oeuvre" anywhere but according to this article it means "small one- or two-bite items that are served before a dinner", with a distinction between it and appetizers being that appetizers are part of the meal. Bizarrely, the infobox categorizes it under "appetizer" while also using that as an alternate name. It also claims an origin in France, while the "Origin" section of the article itself makes zero mention of this and theorizes on origins in either Russia or China. Whatever happens to this one, a general appetizer article is needed. Restaurants in virtually every country in the world have a form of appetizer. Naturally these all use a local name and feature different dishes, but they're still the exact same thing. Variations can easily be listed within their own national subsections under "By country". Articles like Antipasto and Entrée (made obsolete by the fact that "appetizer" redirects here) all deal with the exact same thing as well, but "Entrée" is clearly less popular than "Appetizer" and "Antipasto" is associated with Italian cuisine. A catch-all title would be "First course", which is currently links nowhere. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 16:00, 7 September 2017 (UTC)