Talk:Horst Köhler

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Untitled[edit]

He is more of an high ranking Goverment Official than a politican meaning to my knowledge he was never elected to any office but instead hold high offices to where you get appointed to.

Maybe "senior civil servant" would be better, then. Any other possible wordings? Hajor 19:21, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Maybe he could be called 'Premier Citizen', or 'High Citizen'. Talking about 'electing a Federal President' leaves a bit of an after taste. As I remember from Germany, there are negotiations when election time comes up and when they have agreed on the future office holder, they call for the Federal Assembly to meet. They then have a vote which really is more of an appointment. In my view, they should really be honest enough to say that the Federal Assembly appoints the Federal President. Youngsters think there are real elections going on and when they grow up they are disappointed that this bit of democracy was more a piece of theatre. They feel cheated and disillusioned - why not say what it really is?

Less symantics, I am somewhat speechless, that just for once a German President speaks an honest word and tells the truth, he must resign. This has been forgotten in all the hooha, it seems. 121.209.50.162 (talk) 07:21, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Köhler was elected with just one single vote more than was necessary, although the camp that was supposed to back him had a larger majority. The Federal Assembly elects, it does not simply appoint, the Federal President.  Cs32en Talk to me  08:48, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

The difference between election and appointment is that one person appoints, but a collection of votes from different persons elect. And, yes, the President is a politician. The English neither vote for their Head of State. If we are friendly, we remember such persons as Adenauer and call the Federal Assembly a piece of conclavism in light form (the words "habemus praesidentem" have been coined already); of course, there are negotiations, but there is also a free and secret vote (the latter is usually not the case in the Bundestag, when voting about laws).--93.133.204.189 (talk) 23:40, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Parents of Horst Köhler, German settlers in Poland[edit]

Following text was twice removed from the article. I think it is relevant, but if you don't like the historical background, I disagree with the false statements, so I am going to cut the text to minimum. Either true background or basic info.

He was born as the seventh of eight children into a family of Germans from Glückstal in Romanian Bessarabia, who were settled in the village of Skierbieszów, Zamosc County, Eastern Poland in 1942 in the course of collonisation effort planned in Generalplan Ost. His parents had left Bessarabia during Nazi-Soviet population transfers 1940 that followed its annexations to Soviet Union on the conditions of Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. His family later fled to Leipzig, and in 1953 they fled to Ludwigsburg in Baden-Württemberg.

If somebody wants to learn more: Sources for the Fall of German populations in the East Cautious 12:08, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Reversion[edit]

I have reverted the article to the last edit by Cautious. Now Burschenschafter, if you're reading this: my rejection of your edit has nothing to do with you personally, or with my agreement or disagreement with the sentiments you expressed. I am personally ambivalent about them. What concerns me is the neutrality of the article. Wikipedia policy calls for all articles to be written from a Neutral Point of View. What you wrote could be construed as bias. To say that his parents "had to leave" Bessarabia when the Soviets annexed it is untrue: there are still ethnic Germans living there today. It may not be nice for them, and I'm sure it wasn't nice in the 1940s for Germans who stayed there, but leaving WAS a choice, not an obligation. Therefore, I have reverted it. I notice, however that you have improved the grammar. I'm going to go over it in a moment to preserve the grammatical corrections you made. Thanks for those!David Cannon 11:44, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

narrowly elected[edit]

To say he was narrowly elected might be true, still he was elected in the first ballot which cannot be taken for granted. Perhaps someone reword it. --Akkolon 08:19, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Foreign Language Skills[edit]

Can someone speak to this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.170.67.78 (talk) 17:01, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Page Protection Notice[edit]

I am protecting this page for 24 hours, so that this seemingly endless edit war between Burschenschafter and a number of others can be thrashed out on the talk page. I will remain neutral in this, but we can't have reverting and counter-reverting every other day. Both of you, please explain your reasons for acting as you are doing. Thank you. David Cannon (Administrator) 08:22, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Unprotection notice[edit]

I am unprotesting this article, not because the problem has been dealt with (it hasn't been), but simply to keep my promise that the protection would be for 24 hours only. I will re-protect the page later if necessary, and if the problem persists, I will take it to arbitration.

I still want all involved to explain their position. Fundamentally: my understanding is that the German-Polish border changed after both world wars. The question here is whether Kohler's birthplace was internationally recognized as German territory at that time or whether it was recognized as Polish territory, occupied by Germany. I don't know the answer to that question. That's what I would like explained - with sources, if possible. If any of you could give me a satisfactory answer as to which side of the border Kohler's birthplace was legally on at the time of his birth, I think we could resolve the issue at hand by insisting on accuracy. David Cannon (administrator) 08:22, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Protection notice : Please provide sources, or else stop[edit]

This warning is for Burschenschafter, Yeti, and Space Cadet: I've said before that we can't have Wikipedia articles operating like merry-go-rounds. This endless cycle of reverting and counter-reverting without adding anything meaningful to the content has got to stop. I want all three of you to provide SOURCES that will clarify definitely which side of the Polish-German frontier Kohler's birthplace was LEGALLY on at the time of his birth. There is no question that it is in Poland now. The question is whether it was LEGALLY Polish or German territory at the time of his birth (I know it was German-occupied, but whose was it?). All of you, please provide sources. I am protecting this page from editing for 24 hours. This period may be extended if none of you provide sources for what you are saying. I am seriously considering notifying the Mediation Committee, in order to get this dispute resolved. NOTE: The face that I have protected Burschenschafter's version is not an endorsement of it, but only a recognition that it is the last version that I found here. David Cannon (administrator) 08:22, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Unprotection notice + Final warning[edit]

I am unprotecting this page after three days of protection, although the dispute has not been resolved. In fact, not one of you has even replied! This happened before, also. Reverting, counter-reverting again and again - then going completely silent when "called" on it - then back to the same old ways again afterwards? I hope that will not prove to be the case again. I still want all three of you to come up with SOURCES for your claims and counterclaims. If I have to protect the page one more time, I'm going to call in the Mediation Committee. This is my final warning. David Cannon (administrator) 08:22, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

NPOV version[edit]

Facts are NPOV. I was previously unsure, but have ascertained that Kohler's birthplace was, in fact, Polish territory. It was under the General Government of Hans Frank; it was NOT part of the territory that Nazi Germany annexed. Nor was it part of the German territory that was transferred to Poland after the war. It was nothing other than Polish territory, which was under Nazi occupation. Note: Opinions are POV, but this is not an opinion. It is a plain fact. David Cannon 11:31, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

A "Nazi occupation" cannot exist, because there is not a state called "Nazi". Nor is Iraq under "Republican" occupation. "Nazi" is the short name of a political party, not of any state. Thus, it is POV, just like "neocon-occupied Iraq" or "Republican-occupied" Iraq or "Likud-occupied"/"Zionist-occupied" Palestine would be POV. The same thing applies to Poland. It would be POV to refer to the city where Lech Walesa lived as "stalinist-occupied Germany" (given that the stalinists ruled the Peoples Republic of Poland).
I have now reworded it. "Köhler was born in Skierbieszów in Poland (then under German military occupation)" is accurate and NPOV.

"He is married to Brian Cutaia, born Eva Luise Bohnet"[edit]

"He is married to Brian Cutaia, born Eva Luise Bohnet" what does this mean?? Köhler is married to Eva. who is Brian Cutaia????

Possible corrections[edit]

Is it ok with the author to delete the passage: "Köhler now is very popular in Germany because of his frankness." because there is no evidence underlining this statmenet. Vice versa: Köhler isn't very popular at all in germany. And he can't be described by "frankness". In the way he represents himself in public he is a donnish and a cold technocrat.

"Köhler isn't very popular at all in germany."
And there is evidence for this statement? I don't see how any of these contrary statements is any more valid than the other. You critizise the lack of evidence, but you don't provide any source that supports your statement, either.
"Donnish" and "cold technocrat" are attributes which may reflect your personal opinion. 62.152.162.1 (talk) 00:48, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

CDU membership[edit]

The article claimed: Köhler laid down his membership in the CDU during presidency as precedent requires. There is no such precedent. Further, article 55 Basic Law defines what a president may be and what not. Party membership is allowed. Additionally, the German web page does not mention that. Instead, it lists him in the category member of CDU '-Zickzack 13:45, 17 May 2006 (UTC)'

Most presidents seem to let their party membership rest during the presidency (Brockhaus says all, but there are claims that Heinemann didn't, I'm not sure). In a way, their party affiliation doesn't count while they are president. Perhaps we should explain that in a footnote, especially if we can get information about the status of Köhler's CDU membership from a reliable source? Kusma (討論) 17:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Brockhaus need not constitute proof, yet Das Parlament says the same. So, I think Köhler should be listed as a party member (CDU) in both template and article -- together with a reference, as you propose, saying that he lets the membership rest during presidency. -- Zz 12:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

German presidents remain members of their respective party while being in office. http://www.welt.de/politik/article3106716/Schwan-attackiert-Koehler-CDU-schaeumt.html 80.132.37.19 (talk) 17:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

The German President isn't allowed to be a member of a party durning his presidency. In the German Wikipedia you can find the same Information: Horst Köhler isn't a member of the CDU in the moment. In the German Wikipedia you can't find anything about a party-membership in the first lines! They always say, for example .. is the President of the Federal Republic of Germany since July 1. 2004 .

That's rubbish!! There is no legal requirement of a President quitting his party. The only case I know positively is President Weizsäcker, who simply made his membership dormant but didn't quit. I never heard of Presidents Herzog or Rau quitting their memberships, so there is no precedent. Anyway, precedent would be irrelevant in German law. Oh, and Wikipedia cannot be a source for Wikipedia. Not even the German one (which actually states clearly that he is a CDU politician). Str1977 (talk) 15:19, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

He isn't a member of the CDU! He was the candidate of the CDU but durning his presidency he isn't a member of the party! --Sulzbeach (talk) 15:58, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Your first statement is false and unsourced. Your second is irrelevant as yes, he was nominated by CDU, CSU and FDP at this 2nd election. He was nominated by CDU and CSU at his first. That doesn't make him a member of all these parties - he has only ever been a member of the CDU. If you have a source for him quitting his party (which of course is possible but not required by anyone), bring it on. Str1977 (talk) 15:22, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Wow... just wow[edit]

The amount of vandalism that has been conducted on this page is why people do not allow wikipedia to be used as a credible source. I wish that this be locked until the sheer amount of vandalism is undone, which could take a long time, and remain locked so that such acts of vandalism do not occur. I have taken steps today to help alleviate the problems, but I know very little about this man the sheer volume of material needed to be fixed is daunting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kesselring88 (talkcontribs) 03:23, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

candidate of the CDU/CSU[edit]

At the election in 2004, Horst Köhler was just the candidate of the Christian Democrats! Not of the liberal FDP! At the election in 2009, he was the common candidate of the Christian Democrats and the FDP! Thats a difference! Please change this!Thanks! --Sulzbeach (talk) 19:02, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Successor[edit]

Jens Börnsen is according to the German Grundgesetz the new acting President and thus the successo of Köhler. He is, however, only taking over the rights and obligations of the President, not the title. -- Chtrede (talk) 13:39, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

And as such, he is not the sucessor. The only sucessor of a Bundespräsident is another Bundespräsident. The Bundesratspräsident, what Böhrnsen actually is, is merely filling in for the President. He would do so if the President merely were absent or ill, he does so now. He is not President of Germany as discharging the duties of head of state for the time being.

And since you like to talk about the Grundgesetz, here is the text, article 57:

"Die Befugnisse des Bundespräsidenten werden im Falle seiner Verhinderung oder bei vorzeitiger Erledigung des Amtes durch den Präsidenten des Bundesrates wahrgenommen."

There is nothing in there about the President of the Bundesrat becomes President or acting President. It merely puts forth who discharges the duties and rights of the office during absense. Str1977 (talk) 14:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)