Talk:Disposable household and per capita income

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Not disambiguation[edit]

Originally, this article was a disambiguation page, which actually did not discriminate ambiguous terms. Rather it introduced the term Household income and presented links to mean and median average income.

I have corrected this, making the present a proper article on its own merit. After all it is household income which first deserves its own article. Derived from here one can develop articles about averages thereof - compare, e.g., with GP and GDP.

The information on any of these subjects is presently still very limited. Perhaps it would be an idea to merge the articles here. If somebody else thinks so too, please feel free to pt this forward. Tomeasy T C 23:42, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've added in some more material from the Median Household Income page, which ought to be merged in here: the only unique content there is US-specific and dealt with far better in the US-specific article On a slightly related note: does this article also warrant a section dealing with the use of "household income" in credit/loan applications? Dtellett (talk) 13:22, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Section "Introduction"[edit]

The section Introduction copy-pasted by User:Lneal001 today is already present at Wikipedia here. Therefore, this text must be deleted.

Moreover, the table copy-pasted by this user at the same time is in contradiction to the table shown at Mean_household_income. While the latter is properly sourced, I fail to verify the data introduced by Lneal001. Only one of the two tables can be shown. At present, this would obviously be the one for which verification fails. Tomeasy T C 07:25, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please explain what the issue is? So I can fix the page. It now has sources. You just have to go to the link, get the info, divide by PPPs and you get the number I posted for 2004. What is the problem? You should delete the text in mean household income page b/c I wrote that text and it was meant to be in a page that encompasses both mean and median hh income. Lneal001 (talk) 17:13, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The text on Mean hh income was thoroughly copy edited, so if any version is placed on any article, it should be that version. The issue here is that we are currently having two articles wit almost identical content. This must be stopped soon. The other problem with the source is that I do not get it. Please show me the link that I have to follow and all other links where I getthe data, and then tell me how they have to be combined to get the data you are posting. At present, this cannot be understood at all by our readers, because the link provided does not lead to data at all. Tomeasy T C 19:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, the link does not give us the exact numbers. But here is what you do:
http://www.lisproject.org/php/kf/kf.php
Click on the desired country, for latest year (normally it's 2004). On the right side you can highlight median and mean equivalized income. You now have the raw data. For the PPPs, google stat.extract oecd; go to national accounts; ppps, and in there you will see the PPPs for private consumption that I have used. As you can see there is not one link that has the numbers shown on the webpage; you have to pull out the numbers from the first source and use the second source as a means of conversion. Hope that helps. Lneal001 (talk) 20:22, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This procedure needs to become clear in the article itself. As you explain, it is not sufficient to use one source, we also require PPPs. The best would be to add one column and mirror this data with its reference. The a third column could display the desired values mentioning on top the necessary computation applied to the two sourced columns.

I will delete now the unsourced table. Once you have established a version that is verifyable (e.g., the way I explained above), please add it again. Tomeasy T C 20:28, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

After 3 long hours, I finally did it. Anything else? Lneal001 (talk) 02:15, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Yes, many things. First you could learn to indent your comments, to visually separate them from mine. I am always doing this for you. Did you not notice yet?
  2. The table would be verifiable now, if the links you provided for NCU and the PPP rate really brought us there, but currently they fall short on some sort of overview pages. I am confident that you can fix this, because you must have taken the values somewhere. Nevertheless, thanks for your big work, it will really be an improvement for the article, once the sources are properly provided.
  3. Your tables are in contradiction to the table shown on mean household income. This needs to be fixed, too. at the end, we will have to make a decision. Therefore, it is so important that you present your data in a reliable way.
  4. The main body text is now almost a xerox copy of what is written on mean household income. I have raised this point now so often that I am wondering why you keep ignoring it. I propose to merge both articles under the name Household income.
  5. You have rewritten the lead. The style is just not acceptable: "Household income is the most comprehensive measure of a country's citizens material well-being." That is advertising POV, and a bad starting sentence. Better start with defining what it is (i.e., sum of all earnings by a household) and then talk about its use as a possible measure for the monetary well-being. Also, you have bolden the title twice in the lead. Really, with your writing skills, I am wondering why you keep on reverting my copy edits. Anyway, that can bee done in the end. Now, we should try to implement the merger. Tomeasy T C 07:38, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see that you provided a deeper link now to the PPPs, which is indeed what we need to have. Unfortunately, the source shows different data than the one you report in your table. So, still not fixed. Still the table is not verifiable. Therefore, I tagged it again. Please leave it up to me to remove these tags. I find it unnecessary to revert war about this. Once you present links that show the data stated, I will remove them. Also, i would add in the header of the table the year, because the source give the data for many years. Unfortunately, you have still not provided a link for the NCU data. Please do so. I tagged these column again. Do not remove the tags. I will do so when solved. Tomeasy T C 16:30, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal[edit]

I propose that Mean household income be merged into Household income. I think that the content in the former article can easily be explained here. Also, the present article is of a reasonable size to accommodate the merging.
Currently, both articles are almost identical duplicates. Their main difference is the display of tables that ought to be identical, but differ because they have been complied by different users. Tomeasy T C 07:45, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree to merge the article to this page, so it's fine to delete the mean hh income age as a whole. Also, for the first paragraph, it is fine of what you said about the POV. I fixed the PPP problem you alluded to before. Lneal001 (talk) 16:03, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that there is still a problem with the NCU citation. I am not very literate in these things, so can you tell me what you mean in human language? Lneal001 (talk) 18:11, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. See that's what you get when check the reference for NCU data. Just put the link for the webpage where you read your data from. And perhaps you can format the reference so that it displays information about itself, too. Tomeasy T C 20:40, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Will you do something about the citation issue any time soon. otherwise, we should remove the content and post it again once it is resolved. Tomeasy T C 08:52, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This is Lneal001. I am away right now, but certainly can work on the citational issue. Sorry for the delay! The problem is that when you actually input the data, the website link remains the same. So you have to do what you did for the PPP source, and simply say "select value and scroll down." Lneal001
If you know what needs to be done, just do it. I am not sure how to get the data that we are displaying. In any case, the way it is presented right now is not acceptable. When do you think, you will have time to fix the issue? Tomeasy T C 21:32, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, I implemented the proposed merger. Tomeasy T C 21:49, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Again, the way that website works is that you have to pick the country, year, and data output. However, once you do this, a box pops up and gives you a number. BUT, this box has no specific link. If you can tell me how to directly link the output, please let me know. ~~Lneal001

Please define NCU[edit]

The charts on this page should define the acronym "NCU". Which I presume doesn't stand for Northern Caribbean University. Perhaps "native conversion unit"? The acronym is not defined on the linked external reference page, or on the Purchasing Power Parity Wikipedia page. Nor on the World Bank's What is Purchasing Power Parity whitepaper. Dredmorbius (talk) 14:57, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Why Income per capita section?[edit]

Right now there is a section Household income#Disposable income per capita (OECD), giving data for 30 countries. But household income, the subject of this article, contrasts with per capita income, so this section is irrelevant to the article, and will mislead the unwary reader into thinking that these are data on the topic of the article.

Without objection, I’ll remove this section. Let me know if there are any objections. Loraof (talk) 22:39, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not remove as it relates to household income from an authoritative source. Lneal001 (talk) 01:33, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for responding. I’m not sure why you say this table relates to household income. The title of the section is “Disposable income per capita (OECD)”, which as you know is not what household income is. The opening paragraph gives a description that indicates it is not about household income. References 1 and 2 go to definitions of things that are not household income. The title of the key column of the table is “2015 Per Capita (PPP)[3]”, which again is disposable income per capita and not household income. Reference 3 goes to a definition of household disposable income but does not contain the indicated data.
If the data are in fact on household income, everything in this section needs to be corrected to reflect that. If not, the section needs to be deleted as irrelevant to the article on household income. Loraof (talk) 21:01, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It is household income on a Per Capita basis because its includes income going to the household sector. I think you misunderstood what was meant by household. Also, there is no official definition of household income Lneal001 (talk) 03:19, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A household is a collection of one or more individuals living at the same residence. Household income is societal income divided by the number of households. Per capita means societal divided by the number of individuals.
Take a look at the lead of this very article for the distinction:
Household income is a measure of the combined incomes of all people sharing a particular household or place of residence....Average household incomes need not map directly to measures of an individual's earnings such as per capita income as numbers of people sharing households and numbers of income earners per household can vary significantly between regions and over time.
Loraof (talk) 22:58, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of Median Section[edit]

Jeonju 2022 keeps removing an entire section with median data from the OECD's "median disposable income" metric per person without a clear reason. This data shouldn't be removed without some kind of consensus on the matter. Holstener Liesel (talk) 07:50, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above median income does not match the income inequality index based on household disposable income. The years are also different. As you saw in the discussion above, we want to provide as accurate information as possible. Jeonju 2022 (talk) 17:02, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please clarify what this has to with the income inequality index based on household disposable income. The data you keep deleting is in no way inaccurate. It is correctly cited from the OECD source and correctly referenced as such. The years which you mention are correctly noted in the table in cases where it's not 2016. There is no reason to remove this table, which is properly cited, referenced, and relevant to the article. You have now removed this properly-sourced content for the third time without discussing them first. Please refrain from doing so. Holstener Liesel (talk) 19:26, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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