|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ice cream article.
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|Ice cream is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.|
|Ice cream has been listed as a level-4 vital article in Life. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as B-Class.|
|WikiProject Food and drink / Desserts||(Rated B-class, Top-importance)|
|This article is/was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Assigned student editor(s): RedPowerRanger.|
- 1 Edit request on 20 November 2012
- 2 edit request
- 3 References?
- 4 The article could be improved with better reference to flavours
- 5 The table
- 6 ?
- 7 Edit request on 29 June 2013
- 8 No advertising, please
- 9 Frozen desserts
- 10 Widespread in history?
- 11 Not A rollback Vandal
- 12 Did you know? nomation
- 13 Deaths
- 14 Café Procope?
- 15 Snow Cones Are Not Ice Cream
- 16 FANTASY
- 17 Why is this edit-locked? Or is it?
- 18 Edit Request: Ice Cream Song
- 19 Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2015
- 20 Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2015
- 21 No Evidence of Arabs making ice cream
Edit request on 20 November 2012
O SALVADOR E FE*A
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Under "Expansion in Popularity", please correct the following grammar mistake: "Agnes Marshall, regarded as the 'queen of ices' in England did much to popularize ice cream recipes and make it's consumption into a fashionable middle-class pursuit. " --should remove the apostrophe in "it's".
i dont understand why it is "properly" ice-cream from the reference #1. merriam-webster lists it as 'ice cream' (no hyphen). that would be a more appropriate source than a 1911 cookbook. request to remove "properly" altogether, or if the 1911 cookbook is used as source, then write "historically" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 19:59, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
- I was coming here to address that very issue. I agree that a single cookbook (or wouuld it be cook-book?) from 1911 is not nearly sufficient to override what is standard in dictionaries. I'll remove it. Joefromrandb (talk) 07:45, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
The article could be improved with better reference to flavours
The article could be improved if it had more structural reference to the different flavours of ice cream, such as neapolitan, tutti frutti or vanilla. When it refers to a marketing company that referred to 31 flavours of ice cream, one for every day of the month, it does not actually cite what these 31 flavours are. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 22:21, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- The problem is that there are infinite numbers of flavors (for example, one ice cream parlor in San Francisco has over 500). As such, I fear that it fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE. I think the best approach is to have separate articles for notable flavors (we have chocolate, mint chip, and several others; maybe create vanilla and strawberry?) 05:57, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
- I agree. That was sort of the idea, to add only notables or items with articles, not every flavour. The trouble is, the table is big, and there's maybe not enough juicy details for the notes section. It's a pity though, that strawberry or vanilla ice cream isn't really covered anywhere at the project. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:21, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
What does this mean? which allowed manufacturers to use less ingredients. "Ingredients" is plural. "Less" is used with noncount nouns. But beyond the grammar, what does it mean? Does it mean that a small volume or weight of non-air content could be used? (I don't know if air is considered an ingredient or not.) 18.104.22.168 (talk) 08:13, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Edit request on 29 June 2013
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I feel the picture for this description of ice cream is misleading. It's a picture of gelato. Ice cream and gelato are 2 different products made with different ingredients and by different processes. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 18:03, 29 June 2013 (UTC)firstname.lastname@example.org
- Not done: Thanks for the suggestion, but based on the lead, as well as some Googling, the idea that gelato is not a form of ice cream is not universal. Although "ice cream" has a narrow meaning in the US and Australia, other countries consider gelato a form of ice cream. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 06:08, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- Mmm, fair point. I've been browsing commons but struggling to find a good picture. Do you think this would be an improvement? It's less pretty than the current picture, but more universal. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 12:41, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
No advertising, please
See the Guidelines:
Advertising. Information about companies and products must be written in an objective and unbiased style, free of puffery. All article topics must be verifiable with independent, third-party sources, so articles about very small "garage" or local companies are typically unacceptable. External links to commercial organizations are acceptable if they identify notable organizations which are the topic of the article.
No doubt the Oxford ice-cream place is excellent, but it does not deserve pride of place in an encyclopaedia. They have been very clever in getting their picture into the article, but it has to go ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 20:54, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry, but could you point me to where the "advertising" is located? Acalycine talk 23:09, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
- At the time IP added that comment on August 7th, the article contained this image: File:G&Ds on little clarenden st.JPG. It looks like it was removed from the article during a copy-edit cleanup of the article done on November 12th. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 23:54, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
The first third of the History section describes early frozen desserts that aren't ice cream. Should this section be here? Shouldn't we have such a history section in Frozen desserts and leave it out of this? 188.8.131.52 (talk) 15:44, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
Widespread in history?
This report claims ice cream was not widespread until electricity in the 1800s. This article notes spread after cheap refrigeration in the 1900s, but the history section claims:
- As early as the 10th century, ice cream was widespread among many of the Arab world's major cities, including Baghdad, Damascus, and Cairo.
It seems more likely that ice cream was eaten in major Arab cities during this period, but was not widespread among the populace? This claim is unreferenced; it would be nice to have better context on who exactly was eating ice cream in ancient civilizations and how often. -- Beland (talk) 01:01, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
After careful review of historical documents, arabs cannot be given credit in an encyclopedic manner for the creation of modern ice cream because there is no documented proof, there are no citations or unbiased references, I vote for the removal of arabic heresay from the article. seems like a classic case of "we did it but have no proof by the way arabs where the first to land on the moon and mars, oh also the royal british are direct descendants of mohammed" aka general self-race promoting ambiguity. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 04:57, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
- That sounds reasonable. Unsourced claims using "...were perhaps..." should not be in the article. (By the way, Eskimos invented it around 3,000 BC using Elephant seal milk. Fact! :) I'll let you know when I get a solid source for it.) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:43, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Not A rollback Vandal
My last edit is not vandalism and can be verified by looking at my contribution log. I edited and reverted to a previous version because the previous version is lot closer to the truth. I sell ice cream for a living and will not be including any information that will be self-promotion or advertizing.
Did you know? nomation
Is the "Deaths" section really relevant? Except for the first one, which I couldn't access the reference to but sounds unreliable, the deaths seem to be caused by contamination, bacteria and poison that have nothing to do with ice cream. I think that unless we want to add a "Deaths" section to any food anyone has ever died from, these should be placed, if at all, under Foodborne illness or similar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 23:47, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Snow Cones Are Not Ice Cream
Why are snow cones in the history section, when they are not related, and no explanation is even given in why they're mentioned? How do ancient snow cones relate to ice cream? It doesn't. And, the Chinese milk & rice thing does not clarify if that was actually an ice cream, which would be the first ice cream (from prior to ice cream in Europe & North America in modern times), or if it's something else. If it's something else, it also shouldn't be mentioned on this Wikipedia page without some kind of explanation of how it relates to ice cream. --18.104.22.168 (talk) 07:49, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
"It has also been claimed that, in the Yuan Dynasty, Kublai Khan enjoyed ice cream and kept it a royal secret until Marco Polo visited China and took the technique of making ice cream to Italy" is URBAN LEGEND!--22.214.171.124 (talk) 18:08, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Why is this edit-locked? Or is it?
Why is this article locked? Or am I just being a dumbass? There is a lock symbol over the search field and there is no edit button. I searched this talk page for "lock" and found nothing. I didn't see any explanation in the article either, but maybe I missed it. Ice cream is hardly the kind of topic I'd expect to elicit an edit war. (Dimwitic politicians eat aborted fetus ice cream in secret conclaves! Repugnant senator wants to outlaw ice cream for poor people! - LOL) I just wanted to correct the part about frozen yoghurt where it is DEFINED as being low fat. Ain't necessarily so. Not all commercial frozen yoghurt (I wish that narrow minded, Americentric spell checker would shut up - yes, dammit, yoghurt has an "h" in it, 'cause I said so) is low fat and no GOOD homemade frozen yoghurt is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 00:30, 21 April 2015 (UTC) OK, I clicked the lock icon and saw what it said. So I went to the trouble of making an account and it is still locked for me. Come on, mods! Without this vital change, you may contribute to millions of people suffering from horrible frozen yoghurt because they don't know any better. That is worse than having to live without peanut butter. Can your conscience bear it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lew Rockwell Fan (talk • contribs) 01:07, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Lew Rockwell Fan: This article is semi-protected, this means only auto confirmed users can edit it. If you'd like, you can use the edit protected template to request someone make the edit or you can request the page be unprotected. Roborule (talk) 21:47, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Edit Request: Ice Cream Song
Under "specialty job" it states that the song usually played is a recent rap song. The underlying melody the author was referring to is the folk song Turkey in the Straw. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 17:08, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2015
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Persia and Middle East
Persians used milk as a major ingredient in the production of ice cream and sweetened it with sugar rather than fruit juices. It was flavoured with rosewater, dried fruits and nuts. In the Persian Empire, people would pour grape-juice concentrate over snow, in a bowl, and eat this as a treat. This was done primarily when the weather was hot, using snow saved in the cool-keeping underground chambers known as "yakhchal", or taken from snowfall that remained at the top of mountains by the summer capital Ecbatana. In 400 BC, the Persians went further and invented a special chilled food, made of rose water and vermicelli, which was served to royalty during summers. The ice was mixed with saffron, fruits, and various other flavours.
184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:07, 16 July 2015 (UTC) Persians have many differences from Arabs , every descriptions in this article is about Persian (iranian) people and nation but it is wrongly named Arabs in the beginning . Arab countries doesn't have mountain, so they couldn't have Ice for making Ice cream, they have a very hot climate . also Yakhchal is a persian word, arabs don't use "CH" in their words.
Not done - there are plenty of mountains, and snow, in Arab countries see Skiing in Lebanon as just one example. Furthermore, we do not allow synthesis, only reliable sources - Arjayay (talk) 08:17, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2015
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- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Also see the discussion just above this one. Maybe that will address your concerns? Grayfell (talk) 09:13, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
No Evidence of Arabs making ice cream
The article claims arabs used milk to make something similar to ice cream, there is no evidence of this, especially, the fact that there is no citation for that claim. The only evidence of ice cream in the middle east is in Iran. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Khosro22 (talk • contribs) 23:48, 21 October 2015 (UTC)