Talk:Ideology of Tintin

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Untitled[edit]

Good link : http://www.eab-berlin.de/berichte/fedtrust1101/berichtglenny221101en.PDF

Why should Black Gold be considered anti-Zionist? There's no single mention of Israel and Jews. David.Monniaux 14:39, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)


It' written :

"The early and unfinished version..."

It depends which version you consider in the early version the soldiers were British and the terrorists were from the Irgoun it has been reworked later. Many Tintin album were reworked for political correctness : In fact this text wasn't initially written as an article it was a comment on Talk:Tintin because I found simplistic the analysis of the ideological aspects of Tintin. Thus I didn't care to be very precise or NPOV. Someone pasted my comment in an article with minor edits.

In fact I don't want to write a full article alone on such a subject because my skills in English are somewhat limited.

I've seen you've edited Tintin in America. It's worth to notice that this album was written in the 1930's and in late editions the race of some characters has changed. The whole album can be analyzed as anti-American. In fact in the first 3 Tintins Hergé examine his dominant political references :

1 The communism (Tintin au pays des Soviets)

2 The catholicism and the Belgian colonialism (Tintin au Congo)

3 The USA (Tintin en Amerique)

In fact Hergé is only positive about the catholic/colonialist ideology. The ideology of the newspaper were he worked.

Ericd 17:40, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I've found this :

Hergé aura bien des ennuis à la libération. Son retour au journal Le Soir contrôlé par les allemands ne fut pas apprécié par tout le monde. Sur ces années troubles Hergé a exprimé des regrets dans une interview en 1973 : "Je conviens que moi aussi j'ai cru que l'avenir de l'Occident pouvait dépendre de l'Ordre nouveau. Pour beaucoup, la démocratie s'était montrée décevante, et l'Ordre nouveau apportait un nouvel espoir. Au vu de tout ce qui s'est passé, c'était naturellement une grossière erreur d'avoir pu croire un instant à l'Ordre nouveau."

I need hep for translation. Ericd 00:43, 23 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I've gone over the article, correcting English errors and balancing some of the statements. The Hergé citations are all from the Numa Sadoul book now cited-- definitely the place to look for anyone interested in Hergé's ideology (or ideologies, since it's clear that he rejected much of the narrow right-wing environment of his youth), since Hergé responds explicitly to charges of racism and sexism.

Ericd, the above text says this: "Hergé would have many troubles after Liberation. His return to the newspaper Le soir while it was under German control was not appreciated by everyone. On these difficult years Hergé expressed his regrets in an 1973 interview: "I recognize that I myself beleived that the future of the West could depend on the New Order. For many, democracy had proved a disappointment, and the New Order brought new hope. In light of everything which has happened, it is of course a huge error to have believed for an instant in the New Order." Zompist 04:42, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Is it OK for me to change "album" to "book"? As a native English speaker, I've only ever encountered the term "album" in reference to comic-books from French sources. I appreciate that to many, "book" implies the newsprint comic-books of DC and Marvel, and it would nice to use the word to mean the 60-page works of the Francophonic ninth art, but nonetheless English-speakers don't make a distinction in the way the French do. "Album" is a nice word to use, but incorrect in English, where it pretty exclusively means "full-length music recording". Have I argued my case well enough? :) 80.4.202.8 (talk) 22:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

What on Earth is the point of this article?[edit]

Honestly, there is no proof that Tintin was ever intended to be any kind of spokesperson for "Catholic propaganda," as this article implies. This article is a mishmash of slander, POV, and unresearched b.s. I would like to see this article completely gone, as there isn't an ounce of credible information in it at all and cannot be redeemed. 62 Misfit (talk) 22:59, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

there is a huge lack of references, and I have removed some POV and OR, but most of this is actually documented in the large litterature about Tintin. Mezigue (talk) 13:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree. Most of this stuff would make more sense in the article on Herge, since it's actually about his views. I think it should be merged into Herge. Cop 663 (talk) 13:49, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Hang on, do you agree with Misfit or with me? That is not what I said! I think a separate article is justified for both size and notability reasons. The series is very popular and controversies about its ideology come up time and time again.Mezigue (talk) 14:01, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Possibly, but the Herge article is quite short and says little about his political beliefs. If you got rid of all the unsourced stuff in the article it would fit perfectly. Just a thought...Cop 663 (talk) 16:58, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be better to source it though? Mezigue (talk) 21:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Go for it!Cop 663 (talk) 00:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Sexism[edit]

"Also, in contrast to such arguments against Hergé, there are notable, however rare, examples of realistic and deep female characters at certain junctions within the series." ~ Can anybody provide any examples of this? Admittedly I haven't read all the stories, but I can't think of any, and this seems like quite an assertion to make, given the tone of the rest of this section. Branfish 22:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I can only think to is Peggy Alcazar the American wife of Alcazar in the "Picaros" the last album. Ericd 17:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
The most positive portrayal of a female character I can think of offhand is Chang's mother. It may be relevant though that his other series Jo, Zette, et Jocko has a little girl as a main character. Zompist 18:22, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
There is something about the condition of Chinese woman. I don't remember exactly what... but not exactly a character. Ericd 18:52, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Martine Vandezande might had become something of a "deep female character", had Tintin et l'Alph-Art not ended unfunished. But since it wasn't finished, we can of course not take her into consideration. What a pity... Fomalhaut76 (talk) 17:45, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Herge cartoon - Tintin and the Jews.jpg[edit]

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Image:Herge cartoon - Tintin and the Jews.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 04:52, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Herge cartoon - Tintin and the Jews.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:Herge cartoon - Tintin and the Jews.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:31, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

"Controversial"[edit]

"The sponsor of the rival expedition in The Shooting Star is the head of a major banking organisation, who uses unethical methods to delay the progress of Tintin and Haddock's ship. These include sabotage with dynamite and fake distress messages. Controversially, in his original version, Hergé gave the man a Jewish-sounding name and had him based in New York. These were changed in later editions."

Is it really controversial to have a Jewish person from New York as a banker, but not to have him replaced by some arbitrary Central American figure? Are there no Jewish bankers in New York then? 217.24.73.87 (talk) 23:59, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

The controversy stems from the context: the banker is the leader of the Bad Guys, and he is targeting Arian Good Guys during WW II.--89.146.13.103 (talk) 12:33, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Apparent cynicism[edit]

Upon reading the whole article, I inferred that the description of the last frame of the "Picaros" book (in the "post-war" section) was the basis of the questioned interpretation (in the introductory section) of a cynical perspective in that, the last, adventure. So I edited the last sentence of the introductory section to make that inference explicit.

If there are any references out there to someone else's having observed a shift to cynicism, by all means it or they should be cited. My guess though was that this was original with the contributor, based on the single frame (or perhaps more broadly on the manifest corruption of both sides of the conflict, also referred to later in the article).

At the same time, I fixed the broken link to the article on the Resistance during World War II. -- Douglas W. Boone, guest at 68.113.127.200 (talk) 01:27, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Title[edit]

Shouldn't the title of this article be "Ideology in Tintin" ? The character Tintin doesn't have an ideology, or at least he doesn't explain it. He's just against injustice and the 'bad' guys, wherever they're from. As far as I remember he doesn't even seem to be against 'bad' opinions, only 'bad' actions. However there has been at times ideology in the Tintin books. --Alllexxxis (talk) 15:01, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Changes to Land of Black Gold[edit]

The text initially read "The terrorists in the Middle East were replaced by Arabs (which could be seen as just as racist)". This sentence is quite misleading (as well as rather imprecise), as the entire setting is moved to an Arab emirate (later revealed to be named Khemed), so there is nothing particularly racist about all the characters -- government and insurgents alike -- being Arabs. (Plus, the reason for the removal of the British Mandate and Irgun was not concerns of racism, but rather that the story was well out of date). I have changed the language to be purely descriptive of the change. 192.197.178.2 (talk) 20:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Belgian neutrality[edit]

Hello,

Does anyone have anything which supports the phrase "...Hergé was in favor of the neutrality of Belgium..." in the Second World War section? It seems like quite an important statement and, considering the strip "Mr. Bellum" which he drew in 1939, it seems to be absolutely false..? Brigade Piron (talk) 10:10, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Mûller’s nationality…[edit]

The statement that, Dr. Müller is a German villain and can be read as a clear parody of the Germans at the time is POV and original research, I’m afraid; whilst he may have been given the odd word of German dialogue in the English translation, he isn’t in Hergé’s original French text, which also lacks any of the changes to his dialogue (akin to using “zis” and “zat” for this and that in English) to suggest he has accented speech; I’ll grant you that he has a German name, but his origin is uncertain, so it is not possible to be as certain as the text suggests if one is talking about what Hergé was writing, rather than how it was translated to English. It might be possible to interpolate the fact that the model for Müller would appear to be real-life forger and frind to the Nazi Party, Dr. Georg Bell, a German of Scottish descent, if you wish to suggest that it is implied that Müller is German, and working (as Bell did) to upset economies through forgery. Jock123 (talk) 15:39, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I agree; feel free to remove it. We haven't got around to adding sources to this Tintin article yet. Cheers. Prhartcom (talk) 16:58, 23 March 2015 (UTC)