This article is within the scope of WikiProject Holidays, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Holidays on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Islamabad --Tito Dutta✉ 05:58, 13 August 2012 (UTC) Done
Muhammad Ali Jinnah --Tito Dutta✉ 05:59, 13 August 2012 (UTC) Done
Flag of Pakistan --Tito Dutta✉ 07:59, 13 August 2012 (UTC) Done
Citation issues Done
e day celebration including establishing security, and to see that no terrorist activity occurs– explain which portion of this article discusses about it! --Tito Dutta✉ 06:03, 13 August 2012 (UTC) Done
What's done? It was a question! --Tito Dutta✉ 06:42, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
History section needs rewriting, it is more background of independence than of independence day. The article needs more additional citations (for example "Pre-celebration" section has only one source). Copyedit/rewording needed in the lead section and some other sections– (eg. Before the day arrives, a patriotic atmosphere...) --Tito Dutta✉ 07:14, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Trimmed further. Now it is merely a reflection of what is in Independence Day (India). On the other hand "Pre-celebration" with one source has no issue as everything is covered with (though I'll add more sources). Lead re-worded. Also, if possible give me the points that need re-wording. TheSpecialUserTSU 07:20, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
As August begins, various shops start..– now that's need a source! Will make a list quickly which need rewording/clarification/copyedit --Tito Dutta✉ 07:26, 13 August 2012 (UTC) Done
All are images are related to Celebrations, but, History section etc does not have any image. If you don't add any image in other sections in "celebration" section we are facing an "excess image" issue. --Tito Dutta✉ 07:26, 13 August 2012 (UTC) Done
Removed one Image and on hunt to see if I can get any Image for history. TheSpecialUserTSU 07:32, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Ya, images related to history/background will be excellent! --Tito Dutta✉ 07:36, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
If you are using first letter small for the word "national" then you can change for the word "National Monument" too! Is not it? Or do you thing it is needed? --Tito Dutta✉ 07:28, 13 August 2012 (UTC) Done
Some of these points may have already been addressed since my review, but my notes are as follows
Grammar smoothing is required in the last two sentences of the lead section. Done
Found awkward grammar in the sentence; "Everyone rejoiced due to independence, but the atmosphere remained heated up which followed many riots as a part of partition of India into two states."Done
The "Pre-celebration" section requires copy-editing for better grammar and WP:ENGVAR spelling Done
Could use better descriptive wording for; "government high-ups"Done
Awkward grammar in sentence; "Later, it is followed by the leaders deliver speeches that are televised live."Done
"Homepage is paid to the people who lost their lives while struggling for independence..." - That is in need of correction. Done
I'm seeing British date styles, but a mix of both British and American spelling throughout. Done
Additional comments - Though most of the major points of the article are indeed sourced, it would be nice to see an article of this importance with a reference-count higher than 19. -- WikHead (talk) 08:12, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
I think I've already fixed #1, #2, #4 and #6. Bgwhite (talk) 08:15, 13 August 2012 (UTC) -6 UTC
Thanks for additional comments WikiHead and thanks for helping out BGwhite! I'm confused here. It is not my strong point to differentiate between both languages, perhaps, can you point them out? TheSpecialUserTSU 08:23, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm an American, so my British English is limited. I've changed a few I knew about, but I don't know about the rest. Why couldn't the British learn to spell? :) Bgwhite (talk) 08:26, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
You're most certainly welcome TheSpecialUser! At last glance it would appear that all my notes have been addressed, except for the addition of more references. I'll return in a short while to see how things are progressing. -- WikHead (talk) 08:33, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
I second the request to add additional references. Also image for history/background section! See the comment related to El sections and Commonscat above too--Tito Dutta✉ 08:36, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Ah I see, you have done EL and Commonscat tasks already! --Tito Dutta✉ 08:38, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm struggling a bit here. I don't live in Pakistan nor do I've ever witnessed what happens on 14 August, so have trouble fixing section 5 (I've asked a friend). Also, I'm doing a bit search to see if I can get clarified. Thanks! Also.. will add section about culture and additional sources (can try till 30-40) by today eve. TheSpecialUserTSU 08:42, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
"The day begins with special prayers for integrity, solidarity, and development of Pakistan" Where do these happen? I mean prayers are held in schools, government offices etc? Or the citizens just pray in their homes after getting up in the morning (since it says "the day begins with"?)
Done - Start off with morning prayers in mosques.
"The official festivities usually take place in Islamabad ..". Why usually? Is there some unusual exception to this?
Done - Yes, in 2010 and 2011 due to floods there were no official festivities, only the main ceremonies. Will need to add that.
"followed by a 31-gun salute in the capital" Is it 31 or 21? Also, the reference following this sentence links to a Dawn article that does not mention the gun salute (unless I missed it). Done
"It is followed by various leaders delivering speeches highlighting achievements of the government, goals set for the future, and praising the sacrifices and efforts of national heroes" Various leaders give speech? So there is no "main event" where PM or President give speech? Also, does various leader include opposition leaders (they may not highlight government achievement)?
Don't believe that there is a"main event or special event". Have Done regarding opposition. TheSpecialUserTSU 15:58, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
This is not done yet. The "various leaders" can deliver speeches, but all of them praise government achievements? If the leaders are from opposition, they are more likely not to highlight government achievements. The government leaders and officials may do so. --Dwaipayan (talk) 17:47, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Address from the PM and president to the nation + separate speeches of political leaders mentioned. SamarTalk 17:59, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Nice work, just playing with the words, and bingo :) Yes, now it is acceptable.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:05, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
" In Karachi, drives are initiated to clean and prepare the Mazar-e-Quaid (Jinnah Mausoleum) for the celebration.". I guess this happens before the I day, right? Done
Yes. The paragraph is about preparations leading up to the day, it starts from As the month of August begins....
"In Peshawar, the main function of national flag hoisting ceremony is presided over by the Chief Minister of Khyber Pakthunkhwa. Various other flag hoisting ceremonies are held in the main buildings of the city including Governor House, High Court, and DCO Office". Why are you specifically mentioning Peshawar and not mentioning other cities? (the preceding sentences on Lahore and Karachi are actually on the Minar-e-Pakistan and Jinnah's mausoleum, not on the cities per se.) Done
"Along with flag hoisting, the national anthem is also sung at various government places, schools, residences, and monuments at the eve of Independence Day".. Only on the eve of I-day? Not on the I-day?--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:24, 13 August 2012 (UTC) Done
"National flags are displayed on Shahrah-e-Faisal, Shahara-e-Quaideen, and Mazar-e-Quaid Road leading up to the mausoleum.". Which mausoleum. No mausoleum is mentioned in the preceding sentences.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:50, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Done - Quaid's mausoleum. Missed during restructuring.
"Various other flag hoisting ceremonies are held in the main buildings of the city including Governor House, High Court, and DCO Office" Which city are you referring to? Lahore? The reference tells about Peshawar. Also, what is DCO?
Added DCO link. This was referring to activities in Peshawar, KP capital which I see is now removed. Can the editor who removed it comment on it. SamarTalk 16:53, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
"National flags are displayed on Shahrah-e-Faisal, Shahara-e-Quaideen, and Mazar-e-Quaid Road leading up to the Quaid's mausoleum" Replace with "Jinnah's mausoleum", Quaid is a local word, not generally known to the rest of the world. Also, add "in Karachi" at the end of the sentence. Done
"Along with flag hoisting, the national anthem is also sung at various government places, schools, residences..." Also is not needed. Done
"Homage is paid to the martyrs who lost their lives while struggling for independence in the freedom movement.". Hmmm... You mean martyrs of Indian independence movement? Or do you mean Pakistan Movement's martyrs? Done I am interested to know a few names of the latter, just to be sure we are on the same page. Names may or may not be needed to be added to the article though. The editors living in Pakistan can throw some light on this, which personalities are actually remembered and paid homage to? Jinnah, Iqbal, Rahamat Ali, and who else? I may be ill-informed, but Gandhi is unlikely to be remembered.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:29, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
The martyrs awarded Nishan-e-Haider, past political leaders, major figures in Pakistan freedom movement, senior artisits. But I don't know why only martyrs of freedom movement are mentioned.SamarTalk 16:53, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Current version "Homage is paid to the martyrs who lost their lives while struggling for creation of a separate state in the freedom movement...". Completely vague. I read Pakistan movement article, no martyrs as such are mentioned. Did a quick google search, did not find names. As Samar is telling, the award of Nishan-e-Haider may be awarded on I-day, but in that article, none of the recipient of the awards actually dies during Pakistan movement.
So, you have to substantiate who are the people who died? Please provide reference. You need not name the people in the article, but specify. Even if we remove the term died or lost life, and replace with "sacrifice", some more concrete wordings and evidence is needed. The language is quite flowery here.
Past political leaders, major figures in Pakistan Movement, senior artists -- all are ok, and non-contentious. However, this "lost their life" is debatable. One hypothesis could be this is referring to the lives lost in the partition or pre-partition riot; if that is the case, that should be mentioned.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:08, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Can you please point the header where this statement is, I can't find it. SamarTalk 17:30, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
The sentence is in the last paragraph of "Celebration" section.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:36, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
I have edited for clarification. It will be hard to provide a reference for this, these events just takes place, I can't find an online source. SamarTalk 17:49, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Now the sentence reads good:"Homage is paid to the people who lost their lives in migration and riots during the partition, martyrs of Pakistan Army and recipients of Nishan-e-Haider, political figures, and famous artists and scientists". That's nice work. Yes, I know retrieving online (or offline) references for these things is extremely difficult, and I am not going to press for reference (as the sentence reads non-contentious as of now). I asked for reference earlier as the content was doubtful (martyrs of Pakistan movement). Great work.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:57, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
All concerns raised above have been appropriately addressed.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:05, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
To stress on the history of the day, and not the independence, I guess the quote of Rahamat Ali needs to be removed. If we remove the quote, the "background" section would be succinct enough. Done
Please mention why the date of 14-15 August were chosen (both Maountabatten's wish to coincide this with Japan's surrender as told in an interview, and Pakistan getting 14 August as he had to attend both ceremonies need to be mentioned). This would add to the history of the day itself.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:53, 13 August 2012 (UTC) Done
Security threats and security measures! --Tito Dutta✉ 15:48, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Boycotting in Baloch province need to be mentioned. You may search for boycotting in any other geographical area as well (NWFP? The tribal areas?).--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:12, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Let's address other issues and then will get on the 'issues' issue. SamarTalk 18:15, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
What is this Dwaipayan? Don't add such dangerous edit summaries. I though you are boycotting/asking to boycott the review! --Tito Dutta✉ 17:26, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Trim partition section (optional) you can also link main article! --Tito Dutta✉ 16:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Do we require the Act's salient provisions? I think it should be removed, doesn't add much context to the topic.SamarTalk 16:38, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, that can be removed or (better) summarized! --Tito Dutta✉ 17:26, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Summarized, I still don't see the relevance. SamarTalk 18:15, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Popular culture Done
Thanks a lot a for starting this section. But, could you please modify it too? The way it is started it seems duplication of what we have already told in "Celebration"! If independence day has been main theme of any film, book, play, song you can mention that too! Some relevant/similar comments can be found in "Section improvement" topic here --Tito Dutta✉ 17:50, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Added a couple of things. Do you think philately can be added here, each year Pakistan Post issues a new stamp on the day commemorating something. I am not in tune with the film and music industry, that will be hard to add. SamarTalk 18:21, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Now that I have read the concerned section in India's Independence Day, is see we can copy paste from there, not literally but take content from there. Train to Pakistan, Toba Tek Singh, Faiz Ahmad Faiz works, Midnight's Children all relate. I haven't read Freedom at Midnight but sounds relating. SamarTalk 18:40, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, philately will be a great addition here. And yes, many books will be common (obviously). Train to Pakistan, Toba Tek Singh, Faiz Ahmed Faiz -- all are relevant. I am not sure about Midnight's Children, I read that many years ago. The book largely deals with India (mostly post-independence, although the night of independence play an overarching role), although brief mention of Pakistan may be there. You will need reference to support that. For Freedom at Midnight, yes, several chapters of the book deals overall with the event of the independence from the British Raj, and obviously incorporates creation of Pakistan. Indeed while researching those books, I came across some papers specifically mentioning Pakistani creations. Unfortunately I can not remember which sources. You can try to look at the different sources mentioned in the popular culture section of Indian Independence Day article.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:48, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Looks like everyone is asleep. I have added some details, the literary work needs formatting and references, added an image but can remove it if you think it is un-necessary. SamarTalk 20:38, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I was sleeping. 1) Replace IMDb reference with a better source 2) This ref is not the best citation there! --Tito Dutta✉ 00:52, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I have replaced IMDb citation. 1 citation needed for "Dastaan Pakistan TV serial". I have tagged! --Tito Dutta✉ 01:59, 14 August 2012 (UTC) Done
I might be wrong, but I believe if we say "the prime minister" or "the president", it should appear in lower-case text. On the other hand, if we say "Prime Minister of Pakistan" it's a proper title that should appear with capital letters. Would anyone like to comment further on this? -- WikHead (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
I agree there. Also should I and D in Independence Day be capital? SamarTalk 16:07, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, thank you for this. WP:JOBTITLES says so. Regarding I and D, there is probably no guideline, but the use should be consistent throughout the article.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:11, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
I also spotted a capital A in the stand-alone word "Act", which I believe should be lowered. -- WikHead (talk) 16:12, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
In popular culture - Needs formatting and structuring to make it coherent. But there is plenty of details there at least for a GA. Done
Security issues - If there is an online source categorically mentioning security issues then add it, otherwise leave it for now. Issues in KPK and Baluchistan, again with reliable references. There are a few incidences there, they must be mentioned in news sources. Otherwise there are other issues on 14 August such as single wheeling by youth causing accidents and concerns of traffic police, incessant use of fire crackers disturbing peace, no celebrations in 2010 and 2011 due to floods, scuffles of youth with the police etc. SamarTalk 21:24, 13 August 2012 (UTC) Done
Made some minor formatting changes. IMDb and Goodreads reference (also the blogspot reference) should be replaced! Done
If security measures in the country are greatly intensified during independence day or if there is any record of terrorist (or any kind of) attack those need to be mentioned! --Tito Dutta✉ 00:59, 14 August 2012 (UTC) Done
The security does get more intensified. Randomincidents do take place, and Baloch boycott is there, although not much covered in the media.--Dwaipayan (talk) 05:52, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Pakistani currency: File:Pakistan commemorative banknote.png I know Indian currency, per Commons:Currency#India and The Indian Copyright Act, 1957 (Chapter V Section 25), government works, (including banknotes and coins) from India enter the public domain 60 years after the date on which they were first published. So banknotes and coins created after December, 31 1951 are copyrighted and can not be uploaded. Can someone tell me about Pakistan's copyright? This image derivative work, but both the source images are in bad condition (source not clear "Own work"– Pakistani currency is their own work?", uncategorised etc). --Tito Dutta✉ 00:28, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Please don't forecast (even if it is your opinion) on GA review result in review page. --Tito Dutta✉ 00:42, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
@Tito Dutta; Apology for that, It was unintentional and actually there I mean; It was good reviewed and constructive contribution from all. Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 09:28, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I've added the section on security (it was easy). TheSpecialUserTSU 08:01, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
We have done lots of works in last 24 hours and I feel we should approach the end now! Don't worry, I'll not finish the review right after submitting this post. I'll wait for few hours to get response! --Tito Dutta✉ 08:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
As we approach towards the end, I'd like to thank editors; Titodutta (especially for doing this in limited span of time, guiding, and addressing some issues yourself), WikiHead (for giving those issues which were ignored but count a lot), Bgwhite (for staring c/e on the article when I was all alon and I'd reached my limit), Dwaipayanc (for bringing up those concerns and guiding us when needed. Much appreciated) and last but not the least, Omer123hussain whose review at the end and his edits were useful - thanks guys for reviewing this :) Also, not to forget Samar (who really made this article look better then what I came up with it. Thanks for expanding the "celebration" and other sections significantly), Mar4d (for addressing the issues and providing refs and expanding the article when needed), SE (thanks buddy for coming handy when I needed and 2 invisible editors who kept this article in a normal state by removing vandalism before I came here, TopGun and SMS. It has been one of my better experiences on wiki TheSpecialUserTSU 08:22, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I second that and would also like to thank you for starting this initiative. It was great to work constructively and collaboratively on this article and it is even more great to see how it has been improved from its original state just a couple of days ago :) The main issues seem fixed, so I guess we're close to wrapping it up. Any comments by others are welcome here. Mar4d (talk) 08:52, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it was nice to witness such a prolific collaboration. Just to help the main reviewer, the prose of the article is of acceptable standard for GA. While some improvement in reference standards and reference formatting will be useful, those are not really GA criteria. Coverage seems exhaustive, barring one or two issues that will continue to arise despite our best effort!
How dearly I wish we could see more of such collaborations among the editors of the two nations! It is nice that the collaboration coincided with the anniversary of the momentous occassion. Azadi Mubarak to everyone. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 12:08, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Well Pakistan's I-Day has passed [and India's is here (Azadi Mubarak)]. So why not steadily work on the remaining issues and look it with an eye of FA review. We can nominate it later for FA but while we are at it why not fix the issues now. SamarTalk 21:19, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be merged into the history section, since it is talking about the 1947-1948 era? Regardless of that, the day has been 14 August ever since. I do not think this is WP:DUE enough (or significant for that matter) to get a separate section, it can be better discussed in the history. Mar4d (talk) 10:11, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I was going to add it in the history section anyways. Just adding material and fixing for now, will include after done. SamarTalk 10:19, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I can't see even a single mention of Balochistan. Many protests take place there on this day (the latest if you want). This is a important issue which needs to be addressed. Another point is joint celebration by India-Pak, and its criticism. Please work on this issues. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛TalkEmail 10:53, 14 August 2012 (UTC) Done - Added the issue of Baloch separatist movement, threats from Al Qaeda and Taliban. Any more details in here is unnecessary.
Join celebration is not off-topic. Also MOS suggests that links should not be bolded, also Youm-e-Azadi is not the translation, and indeed the transliteration. Also there is no ref which says that 27 Ramadan is a sacred night for Muslims. Also "by Vital Signs" and "by the rock band Junoon" is irrelevant, as the songs are wikilinked. Good work overall. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛TalkEmail 11:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Eh, didn't see the joint celebration comment, will stuff it somewhere. But I don't see how or why this is a controversy, probably should be in celebrations section. Will add a ref to 27 Ramadan and remove bands. SamarTalk 11:20, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
The joint celebrations took place in India? Any source of celebrations taking place in Pakistan. I think this reference is more suited for India ID article.
I would tend to agree with that, I can not see anything indicating where in Pakistan joint celebrations are happening. A source is needed to verify that. Mar4d (talk) 11:32, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Is this article about Pak ID in Pak? A celebration is a celebration. Also another ref is . Although its my personal experience, a special ceremony also takes place in Wagah Border, you may get some sources for that. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛TalkEmail 11:56, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Regarding your first question, yes, the article is about independence day celebrations in Pakistan. As for the ref, it is talking about joint celebrations in Hyderabad, India. As for your other point, I'll try to look for a source related to the Wagah border ceremony, that is definitely notable. Mar4d (talk) 12:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
No! Its about Pak ID celebrations. That also covers joint celebrations and celebrations by Pak immigrant groups. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛TalkEmail 07:09, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Sorry but I disagree. This doesn't happen particularly on I-D and if included it clearly goes off-topic. Yes, this can be added to the partition article but not this. There is no mention of I-D in the article whatsoever. TheSpecialUserTSU 11:22, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Graphic template in header
I have removed graphic templates from section headers. Please don't add again. --Tito Dutta✉ 01:39, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
In the sentence; "Like Iqbal, Bengal was left out of the proposal made by Choudhary."' - Choudhary appears to be referred to by his first name. This needs to be addressed. Done
The last sentence in the lead section (about security) does not flow well, and appears to have been randomly duct-taped to the article. I would suggest removing it, or editing for smoother flow of readability. Done
That's all for now. -- WikHead (talk) 14:21, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Any update? Is anyone going to add more point? --Tito Dutta✉ 04:04, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
I have just completed running several scripts as well a full review and very intense proof read from top to bottom. I'm pleased to say that everything appears to be in good order. Unless the current version drastically changes, I'm unlikely to have any further comments. I think the article looks and feels fantastic. Good work! -- WikHead (talk) 12:02, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Regarding the question on currency image by Dutta, I searched through Pakistan copyright lays but could not find required details. Somewhere I read TSU is planning for FA therefore copyright issues with images need to be addressed. So I am putting up a list of images (present and potential) and we can request a senior editor from Commons to review them in detail. I prefer alternate 5 or 6 in place of current image in history section. Please put up if you have better options. Also any experienced admin in sight who can thoroughly work with images? SamarTalk 21:07, 14 August 2012 (UTC)