Talk:Indian National Congress

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Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2015[edit]

Simonchummar (talk) 10:39, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 12:04, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2015[edit]

Since the world corruption in two paragraphs misleading google search " the world's most corrupt party" to our site, please change the word "corruption" to a word like "allegations" Simonchummar (talk) 19:22, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: If you have a problem with Google PageRank, file a complaint with Google. Also, you can't assume Wikipedia is completely to blame for this search result. Google bombing is a technique many activists have used in the past, setting up their own independent websites to distort search results. Altamel (talk) 23:25, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Different Congress Parties should be separately shown[edit]

Indian National Congress is not same since Independence. The party was dissolved long ago. This is a new party formed around 1995 and should not be confused with the one formed pre-independence. Therefore the information disclosed on this page is both misleading and incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Capankajsmilyo (talkcontribs) 02:08, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

That is WP:OR my friend. Please find reliable sources that discuss the issue. Note that the Election Commission has awarded the Congress banner to the current fragment operating under that name. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 06:56, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Party meaning Congress Party[edit]

Party and Congress Party -- Party needs to be consistently capitalised. Rwood128 (talk) 23:10, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

The MOS recommends against this:
  • Generic words for institutions, organizations, companies, etc., and rough descriptions of them (university, college, hospital, high school) do not take capitals:
Incorrect (generic): The University offers programs in arts and sciences.
Correct (generic): The university offers programs in arts and sciences.
Correct (title): The University of Delhi offers programs in arts and sciences.

Baffle gab1978 (talk) 02:01, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

That's what I thought. Corinne (talk) 02:24, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
I was referring to where the word 'party' was used as an abbreviation for Congress Party, and is therefore a proper noun: "Also treat as a proper name a shorter but still specific form, consistently capitalized in reliable generalist sources (e.g., US State Department or the State Department, depending on context)." (MOS my emphasis) I subsequently edited accordingly, though it looks like I missed some. Rwood128 (talk) 11:56, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Rwood128 You don't think using "the Party" as an abbreviation for "the Congress Party" is a little different from using "the State Department" as another term for "the Department of State"? I think "the Congress" is a better abbreviation for "the Congress Party", and the lowercase "the party" is sufficient as an alternative. You wouldn't use "the Company" to refer to "the Main Street Furniture Company", except perhaps in a legal document, would you? Corinne (talk) 16:39, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes. I had doubts, but then checked the similar use of 'university'. See the following:

The contents of this calendar set forth the intentions of the University at the time of publication, with respect to the matters contained therein. THE UNIVERSITY EXPRESSLY RESERVES THE RIGHT TO DEVIATE FROM WHAT APPEARS IN THE CALENDAR WITHOUT NOTICE, including both the content and scheduling therein, in whole or in part, and including, without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the right to revise the content of, and to cancel, defer, reschedule or suspend, in whole or in part, the scheduling of particular periods of instruction, courses, or programs, and the academic program of the University, and to alter, accelerate or defer fees and charges, and to do any or all of the above either in order to serve what the University considers to be the best interests of the academic or student community or of the University itself, or because of any circumstance or occurrence, whether occurring by or through the wilful act or negligence of the University, its agents, servants and employees, or otherwise and whether or not beyond the reasonable or other control of the University.[1]
And [3]

But these are legal documents! But why does that make a difference? and if 'Party' is clearly a synonym for INC, shouldn't it also be in capitals because its role is also that of a proper noun? If there was an article on Wikipedia for "the Main Street Furniture Company" I'd be inclined to use Company in that specific context.

However, I'm feeling that I'm in a minority here, but I find this usage just as illogical as 'winter'. Rwood128 (talk) 18:58, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

  • Just an FYI, Indian media is divided on this too: Huffington Post India and NDTV mostly use "Congress Party", Indian Express prefers "Congress party", The Hindu is divided between the two. —SpacemanSpiff 19:04, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks all; I usually defer to the MOS but if there's a good reason to I'm happy to defer to another consensus while c/e-ing the article. I'm using "Congress Party" (though I'm mostly changing that to "INC" for consistency), and "the party" for generic uses, such as "In May, the party won 43 seats in the election" (not from the article btw!). Please let me know if things change. :-) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 01:50, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Good, that's what I'm used to seeing. Rothorpe (talk) 02:25, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
You don't like using "the Congress", which, as we read at the beginning of the article, is the abbreviation often used by Indians? I prefer "the Congress" (and "the party") to "the INC". "The INC" looks like the "inc" for "incorporated" and, as "the I - N - C", is harder to say than "the Congress". Corinne (talk) 02:33, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
"The Congress" sounds odd to my ears. "Congress", without the article, sounds right; but that's probably from seeing too many movies. Dhtwiki (talk) 13:40, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
I've never seen "the INC" before (and agree); I have seen/heard both "the Congress" and, more often, just "Congress". Rothorpe (talk) 16:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Not a problem; I can go back and change things around. I'm not Indian so I don't know what terms Indians commonly use. Mea culpa, innint. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 20:01, 27 August 2015 (UTC) ---> Yes check.svg Done, per above. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:02, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Probably my mind isn't working clearly, but I still don't understand the logic behind the use of the lower case where party is short for Congress Party (e.g. from the lede: "The [Congress] party was founded in 1885 during the British Raj).") However, I'm happy to accept that it is the common usage, like spring rather than the logical Spring. I've been searching online for clearer guidelines, without much luck, other than the following, from the Government of Canada (does someone have the MLA Guide, or similar, to hand?):

"A generic noun used as a short form of a title is often capitalized, especially in corporate writing:
the Institute
the Board
the Party". [2]

See also:

"Capitalize the word party when it is preceded by the official name of a political party, unless it is used as a generic term:
He was a member of the Social Democratic Party.
A new agrarian party was founded at the rally."[3]


Simom & Schuster's Handbook for Writers (2nd Canadian edition, 1999) recommends the use of the lower case, though it also advises that in certain contexts the capital letter is used: "the administrators of your school might writer the Faculty and the College or the University ". Rwood128 (talk) 13:45, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Rwood, that's helpful and points towards using lower case when using the generic term in this article, since we aren't corporate writers or school administratiors here. I don't have any dead tree style guides but the Oxford University one is here; it agrees with much of the above. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 10:48, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Many thanks Baffle gab1978 for responding to my comments. Unfortunately the Oxford Guide doesn't address this matter directly. I'm still unclear why 'party' is a generic noun in the example that I gave above (The [Congress] party was founded in 1885 during the British Raj). ) – but I'm not much of a grammarian. Is it simply a case of common usage being followed and a rule ignored -- or am I just being dense?
The following sentence is helpful (but again doesn't deal with this specific point): "The general rule is that capitalization makes a word more specific and limited in its reference" ("Capitals 5", The New Fowler's Modern English Usage, (3rd edition, 1996), p. 128). Rwood128 (talk) 17:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm no expert grammarian either btw; I'm just following Wkipedia's style guide. I'm not deliberately trying to be contentious. In this context, "Party" isn't a proper noun by itself, so "the party" can be used generically to refer to a specific party because we know which party is being referred to. As per your example above, I'd write and expect read; "The local council founded Eastern Middle School in 1976", but not "The local Council founded the School in 1976". Apart from hubris, that's the best explanation I have; sorry. My c/e is almost done; I'm just checking for WP:OVERLINKs then I'm done. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 08:45, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks again. If anyone is being contentious it might seem to be me. Yours is the best explanation yet – better than the Wikipedia guidelines. Many thanks for clarifying this – though I'd still prefer the more formal 'Party' in the sentence I quote (see Canadian Government guidelines above). Rwood128 (talk)

References

  1. ^ Memorial University of Newfoundland Calendar [1]>
  2. ^ Translation Bureau, Government of Canada: [2]
  3. ^ Translation Bureau

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