Talk:Individualism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Philosophy (Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Politics / Liberalism (Rated Start-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Liberalism task force.
 
WikiProject Libertarianism (Rated Start-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon Individualism is within the scope of WikiProject Libertarianism, an open collaborative effort to coordinate work for and sustain comprehensive coverage of Libertarianism and related subjects in the Wikipedia.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Collective Individualism[edit]

What about the view that everyone is an individual, and that to treat others with courtesy is derived not out of social obligation, but an individualized realization of live-and-let-live, that you and I are both individuals and I have no place subjegating you, just as you have no place subjegating me? Most comments here are either "the self always comes first" OR "an individual is greedy and irresponsible," both of which seem to be misconstuctions of what individualism is. Moreover, to collectively label all individualists anti-social or non-altruistic seems to be a bit paradoxical, lumping individuals into one collective category.

I very much agree. Individualism is not about the importance of the individual, but about the rights of the individual. An individualist recognizes not only his or her own rights, but also the rights of other (all) individuals. Individualism does not advocate pursuit of one's own interests at the expense of others as doing so would violate the rights of those other individuals. Instead Individualism advocates yielding to the rights of all individuals.

Individualism holds that a civilized society, or any form of association, cooperation or peaceful coexistence among men, can be achieved only on the basis of the recognition of individual rights—and that a group, as such, has no rights other than the individual rights of its members. -- Ayn Rand (One of Individualism's "thinkers")

I also find it quite disingenuous that this article has so few citations and references from the actual list of "thinkers" in this very same article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.32.242.241 (talk) 06:02, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
You have to think of a spectrum from Individualistic to Collectivist. Ultimate Individualism is indeed selfish, whilst the 'Individualism' mentioned above, which starts to consider others, is a step away from Individualism on the spectrum towards the Collective (because it starts to recognise a collective 'right'). LeapUK (talk) 14:59, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Lasseiz-faire capitalism[edit]

I'm removing the word 'radical' from the section regarding lasseiz-faire capitalism. It violates the NPOV.

References[edit]

Individualism in evaluative orientation[edit]

On December 2, 2013, the following good faith addition was removed for apparent conflict of interest. I am the author of one of the cited sources, so, per Wikipedia's position, I am suggesting it on this talk page. If someone without an apparent conflict of interest thinks Wikipedia would be enhanced by adding this material (or parts of it) to the Individualism article, please do so. Langchri (talk) 02:54, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Main article: Evaluative diversity
Differences in the individualism of different individuals correspond to differences in genes, brains, personalities and, in the case of individual computers, in algorithms.[1][2][3][4] This suggests that both individualism and anti-individualism may merit legal protections similar to those extended to sexual orientation. It also supports the hypothesis that individualism is not a mere human invention, but an evolved polymorphism, a fundamental social dimension likely to span independent cultures.[5]

This article is about a political philosophy. The things you are describing sound more like a discussion of biology. I will think this is not relevant to this article unless you can prove that the word "individualism" is used in biology also, which i doubt.--Eduen (talk) 06:41, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying the concern. I think the question is whether individualism is studied in biology (this article is about individualism, regardless of the particular words biologists use to name it). I've made the sources visible below. One is from psychology. Each of the other four makes an independent case that political or moral stances arise from biology (additional sources can be found in the evaluative diversity article). I recognize practical reasons for discussion of the biological origins of individualism to take place in an article not edited by political philosophers, but, in that case, I think the goals of Wikipedia would be well-served if this main individualism article included a link to that other article. I don't see justification for breaking out the individualism aspects of the evaluative diversity article into a separate "individualistic evaluative orientations" article, so I am suggesting that the individualism article link to the evaluative diversity article directly (along with explanation of the relevance). Langchri (talk) 03:44, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

1. Alford, John; Carolyn Funk, John Hibbing (2005). "Are Political Orientations Genetically Transmitted?" (PDF). American Political Science Review. 99 (2): 153–167.  Cite uses deprecated parameter |coauthors= (help)

2. R. Kanai; et al. (2011-04-05). "Political Orientations Are Correlated with Brain Structure in Young Adults". Curr Biol. 21 (8): 677–80. doi:10.1016/j.cub.2011.03.017. PMID 21474316. 

3. Norman, Warren T. (1963). "Toward an adequate taxonomy of personality attributes: Replicated factor structure in peer nomination personality ratings". Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology. 66 (6): 574–583. 

4. Santos-Lang, Christopher (In Press). "Moral Ecology Approaches". In van Rysewyk, Simon; Pontier, Matthijs. Machine Medical Ethics (PDF). New York: Springer.  Check date values in: |date= (help)

5. Dean, Tim (2012). "Evolution and moral diversity". Baltic International Yearbook of Cognition, Logic and Communication. 7. 

None of these articles you are proposing us to consider have even the name "individual" in their titles. There is a wikipedia article called "individual" which might serve these subjects you are proposing better since talking about "individual(s)" will have more biological and psychological implications than talking about "individualism". Individualism clearly has more to do with politics and philosophy.--Eduen (talk) 04:14, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

As i read the article "evaluative diversity" it seems that it does not deal with the decisions of individuals only but also of groups. It also does that from a psychologist point of view. I see it too distant from the issue of individualism or only marginally conected and many other things just as connected or more.--Eduen (talk) 04:20, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I guess the question is whether you want to acknowledge the perspective that controversy over individualism (like controversy over liberalism and conservativism) was a form of bigotry arising from genetic, neurological and psychological diversity (i.e. individualism and anti-individualism belong in the same category as sexism and feminism). If you want to include that perspective, then what other article would be more helpful? I agree this perspective has come at political philosophy from outside the field (including from evolutionary biology, as well as from genetics, neuroscience, and psychology), maybe even as a criticism of the field. I think Wikipedia's commitment to neutral point of view entails acknowledging any well-sourced controversy, even if it comes from outside the field. If contrary evidence arises, we can add it to the individualism article and say the controversy was explored and settled, but I don't think it is appropriate to simply ignore the perspective. If you need a source that specifically used the word "individualism" to describe a part of an ecosystem (i.e. something that needs to be both protected and limited), you can cite "Moral Ecology Approaches"--it is a peer-reviewed academic source, but I wrote it myself, so someone else should decide whether to add this to the individualism article. Langchri (talk) 21:25, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Alford, John; Carolyn Funk, John Hibbing (2005). "Are Political Orientations Genetically Transmitted?" (PDF). American Political Science Review. 99 (2): 153–167.  Cite uses deprecated parameter |coauthors= (help)
  2. ^ R. Kanai; et al. (2011-04-05). "Political Orientations Are Correlated with Brain Structure in Young Adults". Curr Biol. 21 (8): 677–80. doi:10.1016/j.cub.2011.03.017. PMID 21474316. 
  3. ^ Norman, Warren T. (1963). "Toward an adequate taxonomy of personality attributes: Replicated factor structure in peer nomination personality ratings". Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology. 66 (6): 574–583. 
  4. ^ Santos-Lang, Christopher (In Press). "Moral Ecology Approaches". In van Rysewyk, Simon; Pontier, Matthijs. Machine Medical Ethics (PDF). New York: Springer.  Check date values in: |date= (help)
  5. ^ Dean, Tim (2012). "Evolution and moral diversity". Baltic International Yearbook of Cognition, Logic and Communication. 7. 

External links[edit]

My removal of the links that violate our external link guideline was reverted here. Can those who want to include those links explain how they meet the guideline? Thargor Orlando (talk) 14:53, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 11 external links on Individualism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:22, 21 July 2016 (UTC)