Talk:Intelligent design

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Notes and references
  1. ^ a b Phillip Johnson: "Our strategy has been to change the subject a bit so that we can get the issue of Intelligent Design, which really means the reality of God, before the academic world and into the schools." Johnson 2004. Christianity.ca. Let's Be Intelligent About Darwin. "This isn't really, and never has been a debate about science. It's about religion and philosophy." Johnson 1996. World Magazine. Witnesses For The Prosecution. "So the question is: "How to win?" That's when I began to develop what you now see full-fledged in the "wedge" strategy: "Stick with the most important thing"—the mechanism and the building up of information. Get the Bible and the Book of Genesis out of the debate because you do not want to raise the so-called Bible-science dichotomy. Phrase the argument in such a way that you can get it heard in the secular academy and in a way that tends to unify the religious dissenters. That means concentrating on, "Do you need a Creator to do the creating, or can nature do it on its own?" and refusing to get sidetracked onto other issues, which people are always trying to do." Johnson 2000. Touchstone magazine. Berkeley's Radical An Interview with Phillip E. Johnson
  2. ^ "I have built an intellectual movement in the universities and churches that we call The Wedge, which is devoted to scholarship and writing that furthers this program of questioning the materialistic basis of science."…"Now the way that I see the logic of our movement going is like this. The first thing you understand is that the Darwinian theory isn't true. It's falsified by all of the evidence and the logic is terrible. When you realize that, the next question that occurs to you is, well, where might you get the truth?"…"I start with John 1:1. In the beginning was the word. In the beginning was intelligence, purpose, and wisdom. The Bible had that right. And the materialist scientists are deluding themselves." Johnson 1999. Reclaiming America for Christ Conference. How the Evolution Debate Can Be Won
  3. ^ Dembski: "Intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John's Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory," Touchstone Magazine. Volume 12, Issue4: July/August, 1999
  4. ^ Wedge Document Discovery Institute, 1999.
    "[M]embers of the national ID movement insist that their attacks on evolution aren't religiously motivated, but, rather, scientific in nature." … "Yet the express strategic objectives of the Discovery Institute; the writings, careers, and affiliations of ID's leading proponents; and the movement’s funding sources all betray a clear moral and religious agenda." Inferior Design Chris Mooney. The American Prospect, August 10, 2005.
  5. ^ "ID's rejection of naturalism in any form logically entails its appeal to the only alternative, supernaturalism, as a putatively scientific explanation for natural phenomena. This makes ID a religious belief." Expert Witness Report Barbara Forrest Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, April, 2005.
  6. ^ Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, 04 cv 2688 (December 20, 2005). , pp. 31 – 33.
  7. ^ a b Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, 04 cv 2688 (December 20, 2005). , 4. Whether ID is Science, p. 87
  8. ^ "Science and Policy: Intelligent Design and Peer Review". American Association for the Advancement of Science. 2007. Retrieved 2007-07-19.
  9. ^ Brauer, Matthew J. (2005). "Is It Science Yet?: Intelligent Design Creationism and the Constitution" (PDF). Washington University Law Quarterly. 83 (1). Retrieved 2007-07-18. ID leaders know the benefits of submitting their work to independent review and have established at least two purportedly "peer-reviewed" journals for ID articles. However, one has languished for want of material and quietly ceased publication, while the other has a more overtly philosophical orientation. Both journals employ a weak standard of "peer review" that amounts to no more than vetting by the editorial board or society fellows. Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
  10. ^ Isaak, Mark (2006). "Index to Creationist Claims". The TalkOrigins Archive. With some of the claims for peer review, notably Campbell and Meyer (2003) and the e-journal PCID, the reviewers are themselves ardent supporters of intelligent design. The purpose of peer review is to expose errors, weaknesses, and significant omissions in fact and argument. That purpose is not served if the reviewers are uncritical
  11. ^ "Statement from the Council of the Biological Society of Washington". Biological Society of Washington. Retrieved 2007-07-19.
  12. ^ See also Sternberg peer review controversy.
  13. ^ Wilkins, John (9 Nov. 2013), "The origin of "intelligent design" in the 18th and 19th centuries", Evolving Thoughts (blog) Check date values in: |date= (help)
  14. ^ Matzke, Nick (2006), "Design on Trial: How NCSE Helped Win the Kitzmiller Case", Reports of the National Center for Science Education, 26 (1&ndash, 2): 37–44
  15. ^ "Report of John F. Haught, Ph. D" (PDF). Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District (NCSE). 2005-04-01. Retrieved 29 August 2013.
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Semi-protected edit request on 18 September 2018[edit]

Please change the opening sentence "Intelligent design (ID) is a pseudoscientific argument for the existence of God," to "Intelligent design (ID) is a scientific argument for intelligence being the originator of all information embedded within things, like the information contained in DNA."

The God of the bible is NOT an implication of this theory, it could have been that we were seeded here by a comet for all we know, or even aliens.

Observing intelligence(humans) creating information (writing a book maybe, or even a wikipedia article!) is indeed an everyday occurrence, and should not be labeled as pseudoscientific. Inferring intelligence is not new to science at all, investigators hypothesise intelligence in cases of arson, insurance (fraud) and Crime Scene Investigation. Forensic Science departments live by this hypothesis.

The evidence is then examined in order to rule out the hypothesis of intelligence, or to affirm it by ruling out chance.

Intelligent Design does the exact same thing. It hypothesises intelligence, and then goes about examining evidence for the origin of information in everyday life, and rules out chance in the inference based on the evidence.

It is arbitrary to say that we can hypothesise intelligence in cases of insurance fraud, but not in the origin of information. That would be against the spirit of science, which is open to enquiry and free of all bias. Science does not presuppose materialism.

It is not to say that Intelligent Design implies a God. That is another case altogether.

Theories like Panspermia and others are then also given a fair chance, like the aforementioned idea that life could have been seeded here by a comet or aliens.

Thanks and kind regards, Usul1980 (talk) 09:33, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

No. It is well sourced as pseudoscience.Charles (talk) 10:11, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
good grief no. Roxy, in the middle. wooF 10:19, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Galobtter (pingó mió) 10:20, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
These arguments make no sense. But most importantly, you did not provide a reliable source to support your suggested formulation (Wikipedia articles are not based on editor opinions). —PaleoNeonate – 13:27, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Hello Usul1980. I see you've smacked headlong into the intense bias of this place. Don't despair! (Of course ID is well sourced as pseudoscience by well-biased sources.) Bob Enyart, Denver KGOV radio host (talk) 18:40, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Bob, if you're just here to whine about "bias", I'm going to have to remind you that that is not an appropriate use of talk pages. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:48, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes, Wikipedia is biased in favour of empirically established reality. Creationists have always had a problem witht hat, hence Conservapedia. Guy (Help!) 14:36, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Edit warring.[edit]

@Jevoussaluemarie: You are currently edit warring and may end up blocked if you don't stop. I'll give you a good reason to stop: theology and teleology are two entirely different things. I can see that you've mistaken the latter for the former already by claiming that the teleological argument is unrelated to the argument from design. All you need to do to show how wrong that is is to click on both links I just gave and notice that they go to the same page.

Also, the fact that you found someone who says something doesn't make that something the scholarly consensus. You need to provide sources that directly support your claims, not sources that sorta support something similar to your claim. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 22:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

A WP:RS: https://web.archive.org/web/20070423074520/http://www.mrrena.com/misc/Swinburne.shtml Tgeorgescu (talk) 23:46, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
In what strange universe is that a WP:RS for anything? - Nick Thorne talk 09:14, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Why couldn't Richard Swinburne be a RS for stuff in this universe? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:32, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
It's a RS that philosopher Richard Swinburne has stated "I understand by an argument from design one which argues from some general pattern of order in the universe or provision for the needs of conscious beings to a God responsible for these phenomena. An argument from a general pattern of order I shall call a teleological argument." . . dave souza, talk 10:04, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Yes, the meaning was if Swinburne does not know that these would be different arguments, then nobody knows that. Tgeorgescu (talk) 18:00, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
But Swinburne's opinion is not the subject of this article and so his opinion is irrelevant. We reflect the scholarly consensus for articles about science and purported science. An essay by some Christian apologist philosopher may be all very interesting, but in this context it is simply an appeal to authority and thus not a WP:RS. The only way that the reference can reasonably be used is if Swinburne's comments are quoted here in the normal course of events and then it can be used as a RS to back up that he made those statements and nothing more. - Nick Thorne talk 04:21, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Here's what Swinburne says in the extract from Is There a God? (OUP, 2010): "Now this phenomenon, like the very existence of the world, is clearly something ‘too big’ to be explained by science.... Science thus explains particular phenomena and low-level laws in terms partly of high-level laws. But from the very nature of science it cannot explain the highest-level laws of all; for they are that by which it explains all other phenomena."
Where ID breaks with Swinburne is that it claims that science can be used to prove the existence of a designer, while he says it cannot. ID falsely claims that the teleological theory is science and can be tested empirically, which is why it is a pseudoscience.
TFD (talk) 20:29, 11 October 2018 (UTC)