Talk:Internal combustion engine

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Graph Colours[edit]

Hi,

could the colours on the graph at the bottom of the page be changed? it's rather hard to distinguish the lines.

Fuel systems?[edit]

Seems to me this article is missing any discussion of carburettors, turbochargers, superchargers, fuel injection and so forth. There's no fuel going into our ICs! WolfKeeper

Interesting Observations[edit]

Very nice article with lots of information. Whomever owns this article may want to incorporate these two bits of info.

  1. The animated graphic of the cycle demo is really neat, however every automobile engine I've seen rotates clockwise when looking at the front of the engine. This immediately caught my eye as odd from someone who has worked on engines for 30 years. I suppose it could be the 2nd engine in a pair of contra rotating marine engines.
There are a few automotive engines which rotate "the other way"; my increasingly shaky memory-branes tell me that the Chevrolet flat six was one such, from a magazine article concerning substitute engines in the NSU Ro80. Mr Larrington (talk) 11:22, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
  1. Believe it or not, maximum brake torque occurs when combustion pressure peaks at 12-14 degrees after top dead center, not the 90 degrees stated. At 90 degrees ATDC, the effective chamber volume is increasing too quickly for the gas expansion to have maximum mechanical effect. 90 degrees ATDC is certainly when the crank is in the most advantageous position, but burning that late just wastes the heat energy out the exhaust instead of producing crank torque. A crude analogy is to imagine riding a bicycle, but waiting for the pedal arm to be at 90 degrees before pushing.
Hello and thanks you very much for your interest Mr Larrington. Please note that nobody owns Wikipedia articles. If you want to have something change in an article you can edit, you're encouraged to be bold and make the changes yourself. There are some articles which are protected for which you would have to make an WP:edit request instead.
Regarding your specific points:
  1. All animations show the crankshaft rotating clockwise. Did you mean to say “counterclockwise” instead?.
  2. I was unable to find any claim in the article for the statement that you mentioned regarding maximum torque and 90° after TDC.
When starting new sections in a talk page, please add them at the bottom of the page. That's what the “New section” link defaults to, and is the widely accepted convention. It would also be much more clear who made which comment if you stick to the convention of adding your signature to the end of the message. Regards. Mario Castelán Castro (talk) 22:17, 7 October 2014 (UTC).

Something peculiar here. I didn't start this section, just added the observation about engines which rotate widdershins. Which I signed. I have no idea who put it the original section or when. Mr Larrington (talk) 22:33, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

I see. The user who posted the original message didn't sign it, causing this confusion. Regards. Mario Castelán Castro (talk) 18:21, 8 October 2014 (UTC).

question about compression ratios[edit]

I have a question:

When you press on the accelerator pedal of a petrol engine, you open the throttle and allow more fuel/air mixture to enter each cylinder. Therefor the harder the acclerator is pushed, the more volume enters the cylinder; and thus the compression is increased, yes?

The average compression ratio of a petrol engine is about 10, but is that at full throttle. Is the compression much less when the engine is idling?


On the other hand a diesel engine is only controlled by how much fuel is injected , so the compression ratio is always about 20.


However it gets much more confusing when a turbo is added =(

The compression ratio remains the same no matter what the throttle setting is but the compression pressure varies with throttle settings . Usually on petrol engines with 10 to 1 compression ratio the open full throttle cranking start speed (1000RPM) is about 150 to 220 PSI but at part throttle it could be as low as 40 PSI. malbeare 20/5/2007

Swashplate Engine?[edit]

No mention of the swashplate configuration is listed in the current article (31 July 2007). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swashplate_engine Swashplate Engine

Sentence fragment in introduction[edit]

Hello, I am not a regular contributor to wikipedia, so forgive any buffoonish errors I make in the following.

In revision 413119031, user Twexcom removed the clause "the ICE delivers an excellent power-to-weight ratio with few disadvantages" from the sentence "Powered by an energy-dense fuel (which is very frequently petrol, a liquid derived from fossil fuels), the ICE delivers an excellent power-to-weight ratio with few disadvantages."

It seems clear that this was an attempt to remove the potentially controversial claim that internal combustion engines have "few disadvantages," but what remains is the fragment "Powered by an energy dense fuel."

I considered simply adding "...the ICE delivers an excellent power-to-weight ratio," but given that this error has persisted for nearly two years, and that even this reduced version of the sentence contains the value-laden word "excellent," I decided to post to the talk page and let the wiki natives decide how to proceed.

Thanks for all y'all do.

Operation section: Clearer explanation needed about the mechanics of the motion[edit]

Basically, this is a good article but for non-expert readers the explanations are not very clear. Particularly confusing is the compression stroke.

I think it's obvious that when the spark ignites the gases expand and the piston moves down, but it's not at all obvious what makes the piston move up. Could some explain this clearly? Macgroover (talk) 02:21, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Depends a little on the engine. It's always pushed up by the rotating crankshaft, via the connecting rod. In multiple cylinder engines, this is done by other cylinders whose firing is spaced out so that one cylinder is driving the crankshaft with its power stroke whilst another is being compressed by the crankshaft. In single cylinder engines, and four strokes with few cylinders, there's no other cylinder to do this and so instead they rely on mechanical inertia stored in the rotation of the flywheel. Andy Dingley (talk) 08:37, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Internal combustion engine or internal combustion piston engine?[edit]

I note some recent work by Mario Castelán Castro (here and elsewhere), and thanks for that.

Should the main push to "explain the car engine" (clearly a vital topic for engineering in any technical encyclopedia) be made here, or at internal combustion piston engine? (currently a redirect here). We need a vital article on such engines: not the obscure outliers, but a straightforward answer to the question, "How does a car engine work?" Yet we also have the accuracy and scope problem of encylopedias. Such an article under that title needs to cover jets, rockets and the Brayton cycle too. Yet to be clear on the car engine article, we should keep it focussed. We have to mention and link to other forms of IC engine, but we shouldn't spend time explaining them there, or even cover them visibly such that readers looking for "car engine" might be confused.

Do we even need a simple article at car engine that describes how car engines work and is narrowly focussed on answering that specific question? It wouldn't be huge effort to write, as most of it could be culled from pre-existing material, and the hardest part would be defining the editorial scope and maintaining that.

Suggestions? Andy Dingley (talk) 08:47, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Hello Andy Dingley. Thanks for your comment and your contributions to Wikipedia too. I enjoy contributing because it's free as in freedom. I will add references to the material I added once I consider that no major changes will be required.
I agree that Wikipedia needs to explain how a land vehicle engine works. I have noticed that Wikipedia covers reciprocating ICE several times through these articles:
And maybe even more that I'm not aware of. These articles are partially overlapping, which is not bad by itself but I agree that there must be a central location for describing reciprocating ICEs and the rest must refer to it as the main article/section. This article seems like a good place for that and that's why I have been adding content here. It seems like a good idea to create a separate article “reciprocating internal combustion engine” or “internal combustion piston engine”, as it would be mostly not overlapping with other types of ICE. Doing so would turn the scope of this article (internal combustion engine) into a summary of all ICE types, in the way it already summarizes combustion turbines and Wankel engines. The more important problem with that proposal is that we would have yet another article on the topic of engines covering what is already covered by other articles. Also, most links to internal combustion engine assume that the article talks about reciprocating ICEs, because that's the most common meaning of the term, and that's why I added content here rather than for instance, in reciprocating engine.
The most part of explaining how a car/land vehicle engine works is the same as explaining how a reciprocating ICE works. Ideally in my view, the small part of the structure and operation of car engines specific to car engines should be explained in a boarder article about the operation of land vehicles in general, something like “structure and operation of powered land vehicles”, which also talks about suspension, transmission, steering, etc..., includes the specific aspects of cars, trucks and motorcycles and mentions the respective articles (on suspension, transmission, steering, etc...) as the “main article” or the “see also” article.
To summarize: My idea is to talk about all kinds of ICEs in this article, or maybe in a separate reciprocating/piston ICE article, and have a different article not only about car engines but all the structure and operation of cars and the other types of land vehicles. The question of how a car engine works would be answered by both this article and the article about structure and operation of land vehicles.
Regards. Mario Castelán Castro (talk) 16:00, 17 October 2014 (UTC).