Talk:International S series

S-Series by Year[edit]

As all of you should know, the very first S-series models appeared in May of 1977 to replace the Fleetstar A series (a few of the former models continued being sold into 1978, at which point the second wave of S-series was ready to begin production and sale). The second wave of S-series vehicles, which replaced the Loadstar line, were technically 1979 models. The S-2500 series had a 111.6" BBC (bumper to back of cab) width, whereas the S-2600 models were similar in BBC width but had a set-back front axle similar to Ford's Louisville LS/LTS lines.

The S-2200 series was an addition to the original 1978 lineup, which featured a short hood (91.3" BBC dimension) similar to Ford's Louisville LN series. These were powered exclusively by big bore diesel engines and available in tractor/trailer configuration only (in both single and tandem axle). The S-2100 series, introduced for 1979, was similar except for it being mid-range, and were available only in the single-axle tractor/trailer configuration (S-2125 gasoline, S-2155 mid-range diesel).

In 1983, International Harvester introduced two new variants of this line, the S-2375 and the S-2575 LCO (Low Cost of Ownership) models. These were distinct in that they were designed and built with every feature possible to enhance fuel economy and maintenance. The 2375 used a shorter hood akin to the 2275 series. WikiPro1981X (talk) 08:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Models That Replaced the Fleetstar A Series[edit]

NOTE: Engines listed are the standard engines; optional engines are available.

S-2524 (single axle, IH V-537 gasoline engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Fleetstar 2010A)
F-2524 (tandem axle, IH V-537 gasoline engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Fleetstar F-2010A)
S-2554 (single axle, IH DT-466 diesel engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Fleetstar 2050A)
F-2554 (tandem axle, IH DT-466 diesel engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Fleetstar F-2050A)
S-2574 (single axle, Detroit Diesel 6-71N diesel engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Fleetstar 2070A)
F-2574 (tandem axle, Detroit Diesel 6-71N diesel engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Fleetstar F-2070A)
S-2575 (single axle, Detroit Diesel 6-71N diesel engine, tractor/trailer truck)
F-2575 (tandem axle, Detroit Diesel 6-71N diesel engine, tractor/trailer truck)

NOTE: Models listed below were introduced for 1979.

S-1924 (single axle, IH V-537 gasoline engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Fleetstar 1910A)
F-1924 (tandem axle, IH V-537 gasoline engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Fleetstar F-1910A)
S-1925 (single axle, IH V-537 gasoline engine, tractor/trailer truck)
S-1954 (single axle, IH D-190 diesel engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Fleetstar 1950A)
F-1954 (tandem axle, IH D-190 diesel engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Fleetstar F-1950A)
S-1955 (single axle, IH D-190 diesel engine, tractor/trailer truck)
S-2125 (single axle, IH V-537 gasoline engine, tractor/trailer truck, replaced Fleetstar 2110A)
S-2155 (single axle, IH D-190 diesel engine, tractor/trailer truck, replaced Fleetstar 2150A)

Models That Replaced the Loadstar Series[edit]

NOTE: All of these models were introduced for 1979.

S-1624 (single axle, IH V-345 gasoline engine, straight truck, replaced Loadstar 1600)
S-1723 (single axle, IH V-345 or MV-404 gasoline engine, school bus, replaced Loadstar 1703)
S-1724 (single axle, IH V-345 or MV-404 gasoline engine, straight truck, replaced Loadstar 1700)
S-1734 (single axle, Perkins 6.354 diesel engine, straight truck; sold mainly for export and constructed with special materials to discourage camels from eating the hood) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.4.175 (talk) 08:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
S-1754 (single axle, IH D-150, D-170 or Cat 3208 diesel engine, straight truck, replaced Loadstar 1750)
S-1823 (single axle, IH V-345, MV-404 or MV-446 gasoline engine, school bus, replaced Loadstar 1803)
S-1853 (single axle, IH D-170, D-190, DT-466 or Cat 3208 diesel engine, school bus, replaced Loadstar 1853)
S-1824 (single axle, IH V-345, MV-404 or MV-446 gasoline engine, straight truck, replaced Loadstar 1800)
F-1824 (tandem axle, IH MV-404 or MV-446 gasoline engine, straight truck, replaced Loadstar F-1800)
S-1854 (single axle, IH D-170, D-190, DT-466 or Cat 3208 diesel engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Loadstar 1850)
F-1854 (tandem axle, IH D-170, D-190, DT-466 or Cat 3208 diesel engine, straight/Severe Service truck, replaced Loadstar F-1850)

WikiPro1981X (talk) 02:05, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Expanding/Improving this page[edit]

So far, this article is off to a decent start (certainly in comparison to some other articles about trucks). The talk page certainly does have some information provided that could make for content on the article itself. Perhaps it is time to put together a "to-do list" for the article.

It doesn't have to be changed to an exhaustive specification list, but right now, there is no powertrain information given.
If that's the only image, so be it; but I would hope that a hurricane-wrecked truck is not the only example we could use for an infobox photo. (it's also a good idea to have a nice idea to have an image of both generations).
This requires some verification more than anything else, but I'm not totally sold on the dates of the redesigns given here in the article. I'm pretty sure the redesigned cowl was introduced in 1989; that was the year it was introduced for the 3800 bus chassis.

Any other feedback/suggestions/help with the article is greatly appreciated. --SteveCof00 (talk) 09:12, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Steve, some of this information was taken from Frederick W. Crismon's book International Trucks which documents the history of International Harvester/Navistar up to 1995. Also: I updated the model listing to include what their standard diesel engines are (the heavy-duty models had 20 different optional diesels available). WikiPro1981X (talk) 02:58, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article split[edit]

Is it just me, or should the content on the 1950s range of trucks be given its own article? I just think that these are two different sets of vehicles and integrating the content wouldn't make much sense. Having it separate would also be a chance to expand upon this content as well. --SteveCof00 (talk) 10:29, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:International S series/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I am a big fan of International Harvester and the S-Series is one of the best i feel. When i was young the school bus that i rode in was a S-Series it was a Thomas S-1800. It was a 1985 and she always would start up even on cold winter days or hot summer days. The owner of the bus company never had many problems with them. In the 1990s and 2000s they bought alot of newer Internationals both Thomas and Blue Bird but they kept Two 1985 S-1800 around as a spare bus for most part. they would use them if the a bus broke down or a bus was needed for a trip they would give the driver the S-1800 for the day and even with 200,000 miles on them they still would start up and run hard and good. anyone else have any S-series stories?

Last edited at 22:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 19:01, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Tables[edit]

In the past I have made some tables. Looking back I question many of them in commercial truck articles. I think they work in military truck articles, but in commercial... Sammy D III (talk) 12:49, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"International" brand[edit]

Trucks built by "International Harvester Company" (and "Navistar") are branded "International". This is true from at least 1914, the name may have been in use by 1908. "A History of International Trucks (PDF copy of this article)". International Harvester Company, Chicago, Illinois. April 25, 1961. Retrieved September 19, 2017. explains the brand name in the first paragraph of the second page. Seventy-five years of "International Harvester Company" brochures for "International" trucks are here: [1]

There is a discussion about all International/International Harveste brands at " "Are International Harvester trucks branded "International"?. Thank you. Sammy D III (talk) 15:40, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trucks which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 03:15, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 18 November 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Mahveotm (talk) 16:52, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

– These trucks and buses were made between 1977-2004, a date range which overlaps the 1986 name change of the manufacturer from International Harvester to Navistar International. Simply naming these trucks by the common brand name International avoids a misleading title that implies they were called "International Harvester S-Series" after 1986 (or "Navistar International S-Series" before that date). This is a followup to the earlier discussion linked above, and additional detailed follow-up discussions to the earlier failed multi-move request can be found on that page. This move would bring the name of these trucks and buses into conformance with the naming convention for other International vehicles of this time period. For example, International Paystar, which was boldly moved in June 2009 without stirring up any controversy. I'd be tempted to boldly move these two articles as well, were it not for the recent long-winded debates on the matter. wbm1058 (talk) 15:52, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support as set out above by Wbm1058. Eddaido (talk) 02:16, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In between I'm don't disagree, to a point. After reading the related discussion and decision on the WikiProject that was linked above, I agree with that conclusion to a greater degree. While there may be a reason for a page move, there is no clear consensus, and the current state of things does not have critical encyclopedic value. In the context of the two pages that are requested for renaming/moving, I also feel that the content of the pages also eliminates any confusion (more so the bus-related article; the S-Series truck article deserves some attention on this, but that's separate from this...). --SteveCof00 (talk) 10:13, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support Sammy D III (talk) 04:11, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
~~Leaning oppose for now~~. Please could you provide some sources using the term "International S-Series" to demonstrate WP:COMMONNAME? As with the previous RM, I'm inclined to oppose, because I haven't seen conclusive reliable sources using these names. And the parent article for the brand itself is at International Harvester, so the title is more recognizable this way. If COMMONNAME is demonstrated, though, I would be happy to support. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 10:22, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
OK, thanks for the sources Sammy. Consider me converted. Support. — Amakuru (talk) 14:44, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support - as per every single source seen so far. Amakuru, "International Harvester" was the name of the company that produced International trucks. Just as how Mitsubishi Motors builds cars called Mitsubishis. Also, could you please clarify how the sources compiled by Sammy D III below fall short? Mr.choppers | ✎ 14:24, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

Any additional comments:

I have posted this about WP:COMMONNAME with what I think are reliable sources repeatedly. I think it might go here. It is a list of sources for the name "International". It is so long that I am doing this collapse thing.

Extended content

These are for the name "International" in general but not any specific vehicle (other than the IH sales brochures, which are for individual vehicles). They are in my order only, not order of importance.

There are published books here in addition to the IH stuff. Many, many other links to searches are here and could be repeated here if necessary.

Seventy-five years of IHC brochures for their trucks are here. After 1911 "International" is used in trucks without "Harvester". A rare exception is some late model Scouts.

International Harvester General Catalog No. 20. International Harvester. 1920. pp. 336a-342. Retrieved 8 October 2017. Section "International Motor Truck" does not have the word "Harvester" in it.

Historical Facts About Early International Harvester Automotive Vehicles. International Harvester. 1947. p. 2. Retrieved 8 October 2017. Page 2 paragraph 2: "From 1914 until the present all International Harvester vehicles have carried the name "International"".

"A History of International Trucks (PDF copy of this article)". International Harvester Company, Chicago, Illinois. April 25, 1961. Retrieved September 19, 2017. The first paragraph of the second page ends with "and the trade name "International" was not bestowed until 1914".

History and Development of International Harvester. International Harvester. 1976. pp. 14–15. Retrieved 8 October 2017. Page 14: "the design of the International truck..."the present International truck"..."International had become". Page 15: "International trucks"..."Modern Internationals"..."the International 4x4"..."of International trucks". These pages use "Harvester" and "the Company" to talk about plants, not trucks. Page 18-26 all picture captions say "International".

"Navistar, Who we are, Heritage". Navistar. 2016. Retrieved 9 October 2017. This is Navistar's own history. They refer to trucks as "International". From 1972 (IHC) until present (Navistar) they show "International ®".

"International Harvester". Springfield Ohio History.net. 2009. Retrieved 9 October 2017. is about the IHC/Navistar truck plant. It talks about the reorganization. The last sentence is: "Navistar International Corporation continues to manufacture...under the International brand name".

Burness, Tad (1985). American Truck & Bus Spotter's Guide 1920-1985. Motorbooks International. pp. 215–250. ISBN 0-87938-198-1. has "IHC Chicago" under the section title. Page 226 and 229 label the hood ornament logos as "IH". Everything else is "International", "International Trucks", or "International Motor trucks".

Crismon, Fred W. (2001). Modern U.S. Military Vehicles. MBI Publishing. pp. 93, 94, 113, 129, 148... ISBN 0-7603-0526-9. shows that trucks built for the military are "Internal Harvester Model xxx. Prototypes and civilian types are "International" or "International's", but occasionally some are "IHC's Model".

Davies, Peter J. (2000). The World Encyclopedia of Trucks. Lorenz Books. ISBN 0-7548-0518-2. Page 401 is International Harvester, Melbourne, Australia. In the text "International Harvester" is repeatedly used as a company, but trucks are "International". Page 402-403 International Harvester, Chicago, Illinois, USA. Text says "the International name badge was adopted in 1914". All trucks after the "Auto Buggy" are "International", "International's", or just model numbers.

Foster, Patrick (2015). International Harvester Trucks, The Complete History. Motorbooks. ISBN 978-0-7603-4860-4. This history of the company uses "International Harvester", "International", "IH", "Navistar", and "the company" as names of companies. All trucks after the "Auto Wagon" are "International" or model only. Page 172 (about the Navistar name change): "The vehicles themselves would be known as International trucks, as always".

Mroz, Albert (1996). The Illustrated Encyclopedia of American Trucks and Commercial Vehicles. Krause. pp. 206–212. ISBN 0-87341368-7. The first three paragraphs of the section "International" tell of early history. The last sentence of the third paragraph is "In 1914, the IHC was superseded with the name International". The word "Harvester" is not used again. The Navistar reorganization is in this section.

Wood, Donald F. (1998). American Buses. MBI Publishing. pp. 23, 41, 42, 58, 65, 77, 96, 101, 116, 123, 127, 130. ISBN 0-7603-0432-7. uses "International" or "International chassis".

Motor's Truck and Diesel Repair Manual (26 ed.). Motor. 1973. ISBN 0-910992-16-9. index has "International" (915-953) and "International Diesel Engines" (1224-1249). The word "Harvester is never used in the index or either section.

This link[2] is to a run-of-the mill commercial truck sales site. There are plenty of them. Search "Select a make" for "International" (there is no selection with "Harvester"). Look at the very oldest page (#472 for me). What do professionals who buy and sell trucks call them?

Google images [3] shows all factory Scout manuals are labeled "International". There are also some "international" sites that are confusing, but that is Wikipedia's issue, not people looking for an accurate "International Scout" article.

Google search for "International trucks" [4] 126,000,000 results. Search for "International Harvester trucks [5] 520,000 results.

Thank you. Sammy D III (talk) 13:05, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.