Talk:International recognition of Kosovo

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Russia: Kosovo's Declaration of Independence is legal?![edit]

Russian MFA now expressed that the Declaration of Independence of Kosovo is legal and not violated international law. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.207.60.208 (talk) 00:40, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Source? --Khajidha (talk) 17:49, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Nigeria[edit]

This seems reasonably reliable and credible: [1]. The Nigerian foreign minister confirms that Nigeria has not recognised Kosovo. I propose we remove it from the recognisers list and reinstate the Nigeria text in the non-recognisers section. Anyone disagree? Bazonka (talk) 22:45, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree. The sources for moving them to the non-recognizers are more convincing than those to keep them in the recognizers. TDL (talk) 00:38, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

There is nothing convincing about it. We should ignore it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Science-FictionFan1 (talkcontribs) 08:24, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

"Nothing convincing", in what way? A quote from the Nigerian foreign minister in an apparently reputable source seems fairly convincing to me. Bazonka (talk) 09:09, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Agreed. This is not some third hand rumor, this is direct from the Nigerian foreign minister. --Khajidha (talk) 21:19, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Why Nigeria MFA write in an official communication "the Republic of Kosovo"??? [2] [3] [4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.207.60.57 (talk) 10:35, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Huh? They're not. The quotations from the MFA just refer to Kosovo; it's the journalists who've added the "Republic of". The third link doesn't even mention "Reublic". This is an irrelevance. Bazonka (talk) 18:41, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Could someone who knows what they are doing move Nigeria to the non-recognition section? Bazonka and I have both reverted edits that did it in a haphazard manner that left the recognizers table misnumbered. --Khajidha (talk) 13:46, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
It is clear now that Nigeria has indeed not recognised Kosovo yet. IJA (talk) 13:58, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
True, but removing it from the recognition table should not leave a misnumbered table and a recognitions count that still includes it. That's why Bazonka and I reverted those changes. --Khajidha (talk) 14:37, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
I moved it down to the non-recognition section, changing the note on dispute into the main prose and adding the source Bazonka brought in above. Probably worth going over by someone who has been following this situation more than me. CMD (talk) 16:56, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

I am aware of the sourcing issues, but former Deputy PM Behgjet Pacolli is in Abuja and met with the new president of Nigeria, who he said would recognize Kosovo after his government is in place [5]. - ILBobby (talk) 20:18, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Slovakia[edit]

Slovakia's newly elected president Andrey Kiska calls for recognition of Kosovo's independence.

http://medialne.etrend.sk/televizia/fico-a-kiska-uz-opakuju-dookola-to-iste-ta3-ukoncila-debatu-skor.html


http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2014&mm=03&dd=30&nav_category=78&nav_id=830326


Yep, new elected President of Slovakia is pro Kosovo recognition.[6] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.207.60.57 (talk) 10:28, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I added a note to Slovakia's reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence. TDL (talk) 19:34, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Nigeria precedent - San Tome[edit]

I see that Nigeria was removed from the list of recognition after the declaration of Nigeria MFA in Abuja. Last year President and Prime Minister of STP said that the recognition is not valid, because according STP's Constitution the verbal note is invalid if is it were not firmed by President or approved by Parliament of the country.

Now Nigeria is a precedent for STP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.207.60.57 (talk) 22:24, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

STP's government recognized Kosovo (no doubt about that, they sent a note verbale), however they seemed not to have followed the procedures the legal framework of STP demands for such a step to be valid. However, it can be claimed that squabbles about the internal procedures have no relevance with respect to international law. That's why STP is still in the list (with the footnote explaining that it's recognition is challenged). In the case of Nigeria, however, it is not entirely clear that any recognition took place at all - now the foreign minister explicitly stated that Nigeria doesn't recognize Kosovo's independence: End of the story, Nigeria is removed from the list. In my view those two cases are entirely different animals. Gugganij (talk) 12:08, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
haha IJA (talk) 21:39, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
??? Gugganij (talk) 10:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
I didn't find your comment amusing Gugganij, I just find the concept of a "Nigeria Precedent" rather funny and ridiculous. IJA (talk) 10:56, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
We'll call it the "have a source precedent". CMD (talk) 11:30, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

106 STATES HAVE RECOGNIZED KOSOVO SO FAR!!!

Hello guys,after the Kosovo-recognition by Lesotho two months ago Hoxhaj,Thaci and Co.... confirmed,that now 106 states have offically recognized Kosovo as an independent state. This means,that your 107-list still has one state,which in reality has not recognized Kosovo so far! So which state is it? Uganda? Sao Tome? Someone else? Thank you in advance,Sascha,Germany, 79.233.43.36 (talk) 07:22, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Find us a reliable source Sascha. If we had one that clarifies the position, then we'll use it. Without one, it is pointless asking the question. Bazonka (talk) 18:25, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

you are not in the position to decide,which questions i and other users ask! We are free people and we can write whatever we want! Sascha,Germany, 79.233.4.130 (talk) 13:56, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

I suggest you read Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines and Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. Bazonka (talk) 16:19, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
And WP:BLOCK while we are at it. User:Sascha30 was indefinitely blocked for disruption, so you have had your editing privileges revoked. Editing wikipedia is not a right. TDL (talk) 19:07, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Resolution of the counting discrepancy[edit]

In this speech, Hoxhaj said that 33 OIC states have recognize Kosovo, while we claim the number is 34, which would suggest that Uganda is probably the state we erroneously list as recognizing. The MFA article later lists Uganda as a state that has not recognized Kosovo. Given the past dispute over Uganda's recognition (ie [7]) I believe we now have enough to move Uganda to the non-recognizers. Any objections? TDL (talk) 04:22, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

  • Weak Support - It isn't watertight but logically I suppose it makes sense. IJA (talk) 08:53, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Weak support - It would be good to see a Ugandan source that says that they haven't recognised, or at least a direct quote from a Ugandan official that is published in a neutral source. But in the absence of this, there is certainly enough circumstantial evidence to cast a credible doubt. Bazonka (talk) 09:02, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support - Per TDL. - ILBobby (talk) 11:32, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Strong support – per proposal. 23 editor (talk) 13:55, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment - The Kosovan MFA recently noted that Uganda hasn't recognised yet, see the last paragraph: [8] IJA (talk) 10:05, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I pointed that out above in my original proposal. (Your source is just the English translation of the one I linked to above.) TDL (talk) 17:51, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Bus strangely Uganda is still in their list of countries who have recognized. Just shows what a great work they do...
You're probably right anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.15.56.99 (talk) 12:40, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
That list hasn't been updated in years so I don't think it can really be used as evidence for what the current position of the MFA on Uganda's recognition. They listed Mali at one time as well, before removing them after new information emerged. TDL (talk) 00:05, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

As no one has objected I will go ahead and make the change. TDL (talk) 00:05, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Togo[edit]

ok very good, Sao Tome recognized,Nigeria and Uganda didn´t so far! Today Togo number 107!!! 107 from 194! 87 states remain! Now the list is in accordance with the official number from the Kosovo-government, 107! Finally after so many years of discussion, :) Sascha,Germany 79.233.25.167 (talk) 18:59, 2 July 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.233.25.167 (talk)

Seems legit: [9]. TDL (talk) 19:16, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

https://twitter.com/enver_hoxhaj/status/484397553962999809 https://twitter.com/search?q=kosovo%20togo&src=typd http://epapar.blogspot.de/2014/07/togo-recognizes-kosovo-video.html

Sascha,Germany, 79.233.25.167 (talk) 20:02, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

So is someone going to make the edit? - ILBobby (talk) 20:20, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

I am unable to make the edit, i am sorry! Someone else must do it. Sascha,Germany, 79.233.25.167 (talk) 20:31, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Do we have a reliable, official source yet? Bazonka (talk) 20:50, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

https://twitter.com/enver_hoxhaj/status/484397553962999809 https://twitter.com/search?q=kosovo%20togo&src=typd http://epapar.blogspot.de/2014/07/togo-recognizes-kosovo-video.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.233.25.167 (talk) 21:04, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Twitter and blogs cannot normally be used as WP:RS. The Blic article referenced by TDL above, and this RTK report may be OK, but seem to be mostly rumour at present. I would prefer to see something official from the Kosovo or Togolese governments. Bazonka (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

http://www.mfa-ks.net/?page=1,4,2381 THE OFFICIAL NEWS NOW ON THE KOSOVO-MFA-WEBSITE!! TOGO 107!!! Sascha, Germany, 79.233.25.167 (talk) 21:30, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Solomon Islands[edit]

FM Enver Hoxhaj tweeted that he's been informed that the Solomon Islands have taken the decision to recognize Kosovo [10]. Yes, I know this isn't actionable, but I thought I'd go ahead and put it on our radar. - ILBobby (talk) 04:40, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

SOLOMON ISLANDS 108!!!

https://twitter.com/Petrit The deputy foreign minister has confirmed it as well,and some other sources! http://www.solomonstarnews.com/news/national/3456-solomon-islands-recognizes-kosovo-as-independent-state http://mapo.al/2014/08/ishujt-solomon-njohin-pavaresine-e-kosoves/ http://www.telegrafi.com/lajme/ishujt-solomon-e-kane-njohur-kosoven-2-49218.html Hoxhaj just now confirmed it not only on Twitter,but also on facebook https://www.facebook.com/dr.enverhoxhaj?fref=ts Sascha,Germany, 79.233.35.217 (talk) 05:56, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it's all over twitter and the Kosovo news media are reporting it. I have no objection to the edit being made, but I will not make that call. - ILBobby (talk) 06:02, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

We had many doubtful recognitions in recent years,but the Kosovo has changed it´s attitude and is now more trustworthy.There is no doubt concerning the Solomon-Islands,the links above are numerous and official and the media-coverage is increasing every hour now! Update can be made! Sascha,Germany, 79.233.35.217 (talk) 06:20, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Please don't edit the main page if you don't know what you're doing. - ILBobby (talk) 07:09, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Instead of lamenting about other guys,you should do it yourself! Criticizing others without showing personal courage is very easy! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.233.35.217 (talk) 07:15, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done IJA (talk) 07:46, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Growing recognition of sports federation[edit]

Should we include something in the introductory portion of the text on the growing number of international sports federation admitting Kosovo to full membership status? Kosovo became a member of the IOC and other federations, and I think it merits a mention. What do you think?--alchaemia (talk) 09:56, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Anything significantly notable should be included under "International recognition of Kosovo#International non-governmental organisations" such as the IOC, smaller sporting organisations should be covered at Membership of Kosovo in international sports federations. I've added a "see also" section under the "International non-governmental organisations" sub-section. Also remember to sign your comments with ~~~~ please. Regards IJA (talk) 20:03, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Kosovo note template[edit]

Has anyone else noticed that the number of countries displayed as recognising Kosovo is on 107 (as of today) while the Kosovo note template reports 108? Obviously this is not including Taiwan and Military Order Malta. I am not sure how to amend the template so I don't wish to fiddle, but on the whole I cannot be certain which of the two is correct (meaning whether the article is out of date).This comment is posted on both talk pages --Oranges Juicy (talk) 08:50, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

The number of recognisers is held in the Template:Numrec/Kosovo template, called by both this article and the Kosovo Note template. Someone removed Sao Tomé's recognition from this article, and then broke the link to the Numrec template so that it didn't work properly, causing an inconsistency. I've reverted to the last stable version, but I think there is a case to be made for removing Sao Tomé from the recognisers list - they seem to have withdrawn their recognition. If it is to be removed then we must do it properly, without making a mess. Bazonka (talk) 16:38, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Antigua and Barbuda[edit]

Antigua and Barbuda just recognised, so far Kosovo MFA announced in a tweet, replace is needed when media writes about it. Digitalpaper (talk) 08:52, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


Sao Tomé[edit]

Currently we state that Sao Tomé has recognised Kosovo, with a footnote stating that the recognition is disputed. A new source now shows that STP's new government denies recognition: [11]. This seems to be a blog and so may not be RS, but it refers to a formal communication from the new president stating that STP does not recognise Kosovo. If we can find this then I think we can take it to be cast iron evidence of non-recognition. If we cannot find it, then should we leave things as they are (with a possible error in the number of recognisers), or move STP back to the non-recognisers list? Bazonka (talk) 16:59, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

That link is older that I'd thought. It's from 2013. So perhaps we should leave things as they are. Keen to hear what others think though. Bazonka (talk) 17:00, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I tend to think that they should be moved to the non-recognizers. At one point, when there was internal dispute in STP's government on their position, I think it made sense to list them as recognizing with a footnote. Now that there seems to be consensus by STP's government that they currently do not recognize, I think it's best to move them to the non-recognizers. Obviously there is a question of legality of this position, but de facto they do not recognize and that's what is really important. Depending on whose lawyer you believe, the recognition either never took place, or has been annulled.
That being said, the text currently under STP needs to be rewritten as it is unbalanced, poorly written and makes unsubstantiated claims. For instance, it should clearly be mentioned that Kosovo's reaction has been to insist that the recognition is still valid. (This is in contrast with Mali, which Kosovo acknowledges no longer recognizes.) TDL (talk) 03:31, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
We have the disputed note, that is sufficient and neutral. Also all sources say 108, not 107. IJA (talk) 05:10, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Firstly thank you Bazonka for identifying the problem, which as we now know lies with São Tomé and Príncipe. Theoretically this state is the elephant in the room for us as editors because we cannot be certain to which category it begins, most of us suspect that STP does not recognise yet the only evidence comes in the form of an unreliable source. Such things cannot generally be ignored because often they hint at the facts, the problem we have is that if it is the case that STP has amended its position then we still may never know for a very long time because relations between STP and Kosovo/Serbia are of low importance to any publisher. It doesn't mean no information exists, it means finding it is difficult. To me STP belongs in its own little third category of "not sure". This source from 2014 says 108 so maybe there is nothing in the STP case, there again it could be cited in pure passing without consideration towards the situation. Nobody knows. All I can say though is that it has nothing to do with neutrality since this is not a contentious debate, it is simply to do with accuracy, do they or don't they. --Oranges Juicy (talk) 06:08, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
"It doesn't mean no information exists, it means finding it is difficult."
I guess São Tomé and Príncipe knows whether or not they recognize Kosovo. Ever considered to simply ask them ? I am almost sure they've got a government, an embassy or two ... and the ability to read an email.46.115.21.161 (talk) 10:29, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I have sent an email to their Office of Public and International Affairs. However, an emailed response from them would unfortunately still not meet WP:RS unless they published it widely. It'll give us an indication though, and we can always consider whether to apply WP:IAR. Bazonka (talk) 12:57, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
If they do respond, I am in favor of following what they say whether that technically fits our rules or not. --Khajidha (talk) 14:53, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I've just had a thought! I wouldn't be surprised if the clerks at the embassy didn't know themselves only to find the government cannot remember what it did! DISCLAIMER: Don't take this seriously!. --Oranges Juicy (talk) 15:29, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I have a copy of the Note Verbale from Sao Tome if anybody's interested. I would think that Sao Tome would have to officially withdraw recognition by a clear act, which to my knowledge it has not done. Loudly complaining about irregularities in the process is an internal issue that does not necessarily impact a formal governmental act. The recognition did not become an issue until there was a change of government in Sao Tome, so the government at the time of recognition believed it had done so properly.
In my own experience, many embassies and ministries do not answer email queries. Calling on the telephone isn't helpful, either, because you usually get a nervous or oblivious staffer who doesn't want to speak without authorization, assures you they will "call you back," and then never does. - ILBobby (talk) 01:01, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
There was the formal communication issued by the President on the matter which clearly stated that the position of the head of state of STP is that it does not recognize Kosovo. I'm not sure what else could be expected? The new government would not withdraw recognition because in their view it had never (legally) happened. Withdrawing it would have been an endorsement of the legality of the original recognition. Legal semantics aside, the end result is the same: the position of the state was that it did not recognize Kosovo. I don't think how we got there is really important for the purposes of this list. TDL (talk) 03:28, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
That is interesting - I've not seen it before. The answer to the question would depend upon the role of the president in the country's constitutional order. As you know, there are countries where the president is a figurehead and the PM and cabinet do what they want without reference to the head of state. As an example, I remember in 1999 when the Republic of China established diplomatic relations with Macedonia that the president of Macedonia at the time, Kiro Gligorov, was left out of the process and loudly objected that he did not approve, but the government ignored him. The Saotomean recognition Note was approved by the Cabinet, whereas the statement you link to is from the president. I cannot call myself acquainted with Saotomean constitutional law, so I cannot say who trumps whom. - ILBobby (talk) 05:12, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Neither am I, but with the change in government it really became moot: both branches took the same position that the recognition was not valid. (See quotes from the PM at [12].) TDL (talk) 16:51, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

LOL the President of the Republic published an official statement saying pretty much "Now-sacked Minister X had issued a invalid decree stating my country recognised Kosovo; as is clearly stated in our constitution, whose text is by the way fully available online, the final authority over foreign policy and diplomatic relations of the country lies with me, the President. Therefore I sacked Minister X, and, just to make sure, even though we have already said it a hundred of times - I have said it, the new PM has said it, our Congress/Parliament have said it, but since the Kosovans insist on saying they were recognised, here am I, publishing an entire, formal Presidential declaration, which says, ten times, that São Tomé and Príncipe does not recognise nor has it ever recognised Kosovo"... and TWO YEARS AFTER THAT (and after two years of São Tomé and Príncipe not letting Kosovo open an embassy in it, or even allowing anyone with a Kosovar passport enter the country, etc) Wikipedia is still "discussing" what to do about the list. Seriously... lol. 191.33.135.252 (talk) 23:41, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

If our anonymous Brazilian I.P.-using friend would like to sign his or her posts, I'm sure this could turn into a positive conversation. - ILBobby (talk) 03:16, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't want have a conversation, I don't have time to lose - especially not to discuss something as undiscussable as this (seriously, like, seriously...). You guyts failing to have removed the country whose own President has bothered issuing and publishing an official declaration saying "No, we don't recognise nor have we ever recognised Kosovo" from the list... and wanting to "discuss" it... lol... is what makes people right when they say Wikipedia is not reliable. 191.33.150.141 (talk) 01:43, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia has to go on what the sources say and SAP's recognition is disputed, we acknowledge that. We have sources saying both positions regarding recognition, hence why we have the dispute note. IJA (talk) 02:37, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Where is this "official declaration". I haven't seen any official source, other than blogs etc. Bazonka (talk) 06:21, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
@Bazonka: I linked to it above [13]. TDL (talk) 13:41, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Please block the IP.Politik (talk) 09:59, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


LOL "Please block the IP - shut them up before they can prove we're lying and spreading false information, contributing to Wikipedia's lists being completely disregarded by serious academics".

I quote what another user posted above, but seemed to be ignored:

There was the formal communication issued by the President of the Republic of São Tomé and Príncipe http://www.telanon.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/COMUNICADO-da-Presid%C3%AAncia-da-Rep%C3%BAblica1.pdf on the matter which clearly stated that the position of the head of state of STP is that it does not recognize Kosovo. I'm not sure what else could be expected? The new government would not withdraw recognition because in their view it had never (legally) happened. Withdrawing it would have been an endorsement of the legality of the original recognition. Legal semantics aside, the end result is the same: the position of the state was that it did not recognize Kosovo. I don't think how we got there is really important for the purposes of this list. TDL (talk) 03:28, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

In case you cannot understand the language, let me translate it:

[...]Therefore:

The President of the Republic, relying on the competences/prerrogatives on him constitutionally bestowed over the international relations of the State of São Tomé and Príncipe, by this declaration declares TO THE WORLD that the Democratic Republic of São Tomé and Príncipe has not recognised the sovereignty of the Republic of Kosovo.

All those to whom the topic may concern shall so understand it and act accordingly.

Presidence of the Republic of São Tomé and Príncipe, 7 January 2013.

191.33.150.141 (talk) 16:15, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Well then is everybody satisfied that STP should be removed from the 'recognised' list? Or are there any outstanding objections? --Oranges Juicy (talk) 14:32, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, I don't know; somehow I still don't think this Presidential Statement was straight-forward enough... Just kidding. It obviously needs changing, go for it :) MissionFix (talk) 16:30, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Let's await one or two more posts from the other contributors. --Oranges Juicy (talk) 15:48, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree that it should be moved back to the non-recognisers section. Bazonka (talk) 16:05, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
I'll stick to my principles and agree with what the sources/ references state. However I do believe that the content which is currently in the "disputed section" should remain in the article in some capacity. Also we mustn't state that STP has "withdrawn recognition" as STP has stated that official proper recognition never constitutionally/ formally occurred in the first place. IJA (talk) 22:42, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Endorse move to non-recognizers. The most up to date and authoritative sources say that the government of STP does not recognize Kosovo, so we should follow the sources. The situation is similar to Mali (official statement of recognition followed by a statement of non-recognition) so we should treat both equivalently. The historical position should be explained in the relevant cell. TDL (talk) 23:30, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Did my best, feel free to improve it... MissionFix (talk) 02:42, 26 May 2015 (UTC)