Talk:Iran
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| Iran was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Contents
- 1 Grammar mistake
- 2 Fix the messed up syntax in bold red in the middle of the entry.
- 3 Social Media and Women's Empowerment
- 4 References
- 5 Locked
- 6 Protected edit request on 27 August 2015
- 7 Macedonian
- 8 Iranian people
- 9 Ethnic groups
- 10 The demonstration of March 1979 and the Cultural Revolution of 1980
Grammar mistake[edit]
I found a grammar mistake in first paragraph of this article. In First paragraph and in 7th line we have: "country that has both a Caspian Sea and Indian Ocean coastline. Iran has been of geostrategic importance because of its". Article "a" before "Caspian Sea" is not needed and I think correct text would be: "country that has both Caspian Sea and Indian Ocean coastline. Iran has been of geostrategic importance because of its".
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sotoodi (talk • contribs) 12:24, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Fix the messed up syntax in bold red in the middle of the entry.[edit]
These edits from 4/30/2014 ( Current: "nearby regions wich would last for many centuries onwards." Correction: "nearby regions which would last for many centuries onwards."
Current: "Iran reached it's greatests extent since" Correction: "Iran reached its greatests extent since " )
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Foreverchang (talk • contribs) 01:38, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Social Media and Women's Empowerment[edit]
Women living in Iran have encountered various challenges and obstacles socially, politically, economically, and psychologically that have affected character and integrity. In Iran today we see women’s rights activists have very little opportunity to voice their opinions. Although academics and lifelong learning is deemed valuable in Iran historically and religiously, there is legislation aimed to undermine women’s social and legal progress. An example is women’s rights to an education in Iran. The right to an education is increasingly viewed as a basic human right worldwide but it monitored and regulated in Iran. We see education is strongly correlated to economic growth and political stability. It nurtures awareness, liberation, critical thinking, and success.
The rise of independent women’s rights activists is due to developments in technologies and increasing participation in digital spaces. The reform movement in Iran in the 1990’s encouraged secular thought and feminist thinking. This challenged Iran’s traditional structure by raising self-awareness of social issues, notably women’s rights issues. The emergence of social media has been a great tool to abolish pre-conceived notions of Iranian Women and have gave them a platform to reach out to the world. The media shapes the worlds opinion by deciding what and what not to broadcast. Social media has aided the empowerment of women by attracting global recognition. It gives a voice to the most marginalized groups in society and energizes activists to spread information and create discussions around the world, instantly. Social issues can no longer be hidden from the world by the Iranian government because public scrutiny forces their actions into light, and holds them accountable for wrongful discourse. Bloggers continue to demand social justice and refuse to be silent, knowing there is a possibility of harassment or jail time.
Feminism and activism pose a direct threat to the current power balances in Iran. Media of all forms is a great way to raise important questions and start conversations about women’s lack of rights in Iran. Communication technologies including Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc. creates a stage for awareness and participation. Digital and social media is a very powerful tool and one of the most effective ways to advocate for women’s rights. The future gains of these technology platforms are endless. We can note that technology presents its own challenges in itself, because it is difficult to regulate and is quickly revolving. Women contributing equally to society will have an immense impact on socio-economic, social, and political development. Women being allowed to participate in society will not only benefit women, but all Iranian citizens; and on a bigger scope, the world.
References[edit]
- ^ Mehran, Golnar. “Lifelong Learning: New Opportunities for Women in a Muslim Country (Iran).” Comparative Education 35.2 (1999): 201-15. Web 29 Mar 2015. Nafisi, Azar. “Empathy for Iran’s Women.” New Perspectives Quarterly 27.4 (2010): 34-7. Web. 1 April 2015. Odine, Maurice. “Role of Social Media in the Empowerment of Arab Women.” Global Media Journal 12.22 (2013): 1-30. Web 29 Mar 2015. Shavarini, Mitra. “The Social (and Economic) Implications of Being an Educated Women in Iran.” Harvard Educational Review 79.1 (2009): 132-40. Web. 29 Mar 2015. Shojaei, Seyedeh Nosrat, Ku Hasnita Ku Samsu, and Hossien Asayeseh. "Women in Politics: A Case Study of Iran." Journal of Politics and Law 3.2 (2010): 257-68. Web. 29 Mar 2015.
Locked[edit]
I've locked the article, due to the ongoing edit war. If I were to block Aidepikiwnirotide, it would prevent him/her from discussing the issue. Therefore, I'm going to assume that they are mature enough to discuss the issue - which seems to revolve around the addition (or not) of an image showing the tomb of Cyrus the Great. I will admit I know little of Iran, and nothing of the Achaemenid Empire (not even looked at the article as I write this), so therefore I consider myself completely uninvolved in the issues. It needs to be explained why the image should be included (or not) in the article and a consensus formed as to its inclusion (or not). Mjroots (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- @Rye-96: - same applies to you too. Both of you are lucky not to have been blocked by now. I'm hoping that some maturity can be shown and discussion will ensue. I will also be asking for assistance from members of the Wikiproject covering the country. Mjroots (talk) 20:10, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
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- I came here from a notification at Wikiproject Iran and here are my thoughts:
- Cyrus' tomb is not prehistorical. It very much falls within recorded history, and therefore a photo of it should not go in the prehistory section. Most of this dispute seems to be born out of Aidepikiwnirotide not understanding what prehistory means.
- I endorse Rye-96's clean up of the article. They've removed a lot of puffery and peacock words, and made sure the article isn't flooded with quotes. I do have a few minor issues with it, such as the source about Association football being removed, and a "the" being missing at the beginning of the architecture section, but I think for the most part it's good. Usually per WP:BRD after such a bold and large change is reverted they should have discussed it on the talk page. BUT Aidepikiwnirotide without any explanation and on a later revert claimed these were unreferenced changes when they clearly werent, so fair enough I guess.
- In summary. Rye is in the right here content-wise, but some minor non-contentious changes are needed, which I'm going going to edit request now! Brustopher (talk) 21:04, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- I just realised there was no source for the football stuff in the article in the first place. Apologies. Brustopher (talk) 21:12, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- I came here from a notification at Wikiproject Iran and here are my thoughts:
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- Mjroots & Brustopher, thank y'all for your consideration and performances against the chaos that I unwantedly participated in.
- I agree; I've had my own wrong actions. I will consider all this in my future performances.
- I confirm what Brustopher said.
- If anyone found any error included in the sections that I have edited, be sure that I have nothing against discussion and modification.
- All I've been trying to do is to remove the wordinesses and the incorrect or exaggerated contents, to source and modify the remaining (as far as I could), to add more notable information, and to regulate.
- And by the way, the reason that I removed that image is that it was placed in a wrong section, and was damaging the regularity of the article, and that there is basically no necessity for that image to be kept. But however, I didn't remove it by the time I realized that Aidepikiwnirotide wasn't going to stop; so I kept it, but moved it into the section which refers to the time of Cyrus the Great.
- –Rye-96 (talk) 22:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
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- @Aidepikiwnirotide: Given that your reverts are part of the reason this page is locked, it would be useful if you commented here on the talk page. Otherwise it will be more difficult to resolve this issue and get this page unlocked quickly. Brustopher (talk) 21:31, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
- @Brustopher: Adding the image of Cyrus the Great in section of history of Iran caused objection of Rye-96, I replaced it with the image of tomb of Cyrus the Great and again removed by Rye-96. Such these reactions demonstrates sensitivity of some users concerning some issues about Iran. Although, finally Rye-96 kept image after several deletions, but after attention to history of edits, his/her sensitivity is determined, ex. removing words of Persia or Persian from page of Iran.Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 13:26, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
- @Aidepikiwnirotide: I'm sorry but you still don't seem to get it. The reason he kept on removing the image of Cyrus' tomb is becuase you put it in the wrong section. "Prehistory" means before people recorded history. Cyrus exists in recorded history and is therefore not prehistoric. With regards to the usage of Persia he also did the right thing I think. When talking about the modern country the correct and most common terminology is Iran not Persia. Brustopher (talk) 09:17, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
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- @Brustopher: I well got. The main purpose is to separate history of Iran which usually known as Persia and current Iran. It has to be considered also Iran is not a modern or new name for current Iran, but this name has been used since Sasanian Empire as "land of the Aryans". By the way, Iran came to be known as Persia in the west thanks to classical Greek authors during whose time Persia was the dominant kingdom in Iran. It means that both words of Iran and Persia have the same lifetime and history and both of them have to be used together and simultaneously. So, It's a grave mistake to consider Iran as modern Iran and Persia as ancient Iran. In fact, like many other countries (ex. Deutschland (native) and Germany), we can say Iran has been native name and Persia was used in western world until 1935 and after request of Reza Shah, Iran was used in the western world too. Is not 1934 modern duration? We have to prevent this separation as much as possible to avoid possible confusion by using both Iran and Persia (both two old names for Iran) simultaneously. Concerning the image of Cyrus the Great or his tomb, I agreed with you if Rye-96 from the beginning had changed its place instead of several time deletion. Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 15:01, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry I phrased myself pretty badly, I agree with everything you say about Persia being the western term, and Iran being the native term. But the official name of the country in England until Reza Shah was Persia, and this is english wikipedia. So when I edit articles on Iran, I usually use Persia if I'm talking about before Reza Shah, and Iran if I'm talking about after. With regards to the tomb image: now that you both agree its in the right place is there anything you would still like to revert in the article if you could? Brustopher (talk) 22:54, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
- @Brustopher: I well got. The main purpose is to separate history of Iran which usually known as Persia and current Iran. It has to be considered also Iran is not a modern or new name for current Iran, but this name has been used since Sasanian Empire as "land of the Aryans". By the way, Iran came to be known as Persia in the west thanks to classical Greek authors during whose time Persia was the dominant kingdom in Iran. It means that both words of Iran and Persia have the same lifetime and history and both of them have to be used together and simultaneously. So, It's a grave mistake to consider Iran as modern Iran and Persia as ancient Iran. In fact, like many other countries (ex. Deutschland (native) and Germany), we can say Iran has been native name and Persia was used in western world until 1935 and after request of Reza Shah, Iran was used in the western world too. Is not 1934 modern duration? We have to prevent this separation as much as possible to avoid possible confusion by using both Iran and Persia (both two old names for Iran) simultaneously. Concerning the image of Cyrus the Great or his tomb, I agreed with you if Rye-96 from the beginning had changed its place instead of several time deletion. Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 15:01, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
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- @Brustopher: Just another thing about Persia and Iran: If we use Persia for before Reza Shah (1935) and Iran for after that, it causes a possible confusion for many people who are not familiar with history that: Iran is a new country? and where is Persia now? Although answer is clear, but : as I mentioned previously, we have to prevent such this possible confusion by using both historical names (i.e. Persia and Iran) simultaneously, otherwise we need to attach history of Iran along with some additional explanations to prevent likely confusions about such these issues. Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 22:53, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
P.S. The following text is just my personal opinion and not any more: in my opinion, despite good intent of Reza Shah, he had to keep Iran as native name and Persia as western name to avoid such these problems. sometimes some people deem Iran is a new country and Persia doesn't exist any more. Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 22:53, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
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- @Aidepikiwnirotide: I think this would be an issue for us to ask about at the Manual of Style talk page if you'd like. I think it will make perfect sense as long as we add a sentence to the history section about Reza Shah changing the official western name to Iran. After all the first sentence of the article starts: "Iran also known as Persia." Brustopher (talk) 22:14, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
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@Brustopher and Aidepikiwnirotide: Please note, the terms Persia and Persian are basically pointing to only one of the founding tribes of the Iranian society. But non-Persian speakers of Persian language, without considering ethnic differences, also occasionally introduce themselves as Persians. This generic usage is actually what can cause a confusion in an article which clarifies the Iranian society to be formed by the divided "Persian, Median, and Parthian tribes."
Practically, all of the founding tribes of the country's society have been referred to as Iranian, both by the native individuals and (since the recognition by the order of Reza Shah) by the West. To realize why this term can cover all of the founding tribes of the nation, it is necessary to note that the word Iran is a derivative of the Sassanid term eran, which itself derives from the Proto-Indo-European etymon aryo; and the English term Aryan is a modern derivative of this etymon, which refers to the Iranian speakers of Indo-European languages, who are of Proto-Indo-European ethnicity, and are the founding tribes of the nation.
(Read: Aryan#Etymology and Indo-European migrations)
That is why I have replaced the words Persia and Persian with Iran and Iranian, while referring to the country and the nationality of its peoples. I also believe that this information should be added to the section of Etymology.
–Rye-96 (talk) 14:49, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
What is more important than "meaning" of name, is the "name" itself. My purpose is to prevent possible confusion by using both historic names of Persia and Iran simultaneously, otherwise we need always to attach history of Iran to old Persia. It must be also considered we are editing the English page of Iran, so, consequently we need to consider usual western name of Iran (i.e Persia that is used yet informally) without considering ethnic issues, if we want to represent well current Iran. Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 18:57, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
Protected edit request on 27 August 2015[edit]
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I would like to change the unsourced statement Despite Irans strong Anti Israel policy, the community is the second largest in the Middle East behind Turkey(not including Israel or course), and the communities rights are typically protected. to Iran has the largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside of Israel. sourced to this Associated Press report published by Fox News.[1] AP is reliable even if Fox News usually isn't considered so. I think this should be uncontroversial so I'm proposing it without prior discussion. Brustopher (talk) 20:43, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Macedonian[edit]
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
please change ((Macedonian)) to ((Macedonia (ancient kingdom)|Macedonian))
Done. Thanks, Nakon 04:36, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Iranian people[edit]
redirects to Iranian peoples, not Persian people, yet it's included under "Demonyms". 195.187.108.60 (talk) 12:54, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
Ethnic groups[edit]
The statistics provided in the section of Ethnic groups are listed according to the mentioned sources, which include The World Factbook of the CIA (2012 retrieval) and the Library of Congress (2014 retrieval). In order to submit newly approved updates and modifications, please use valid and accurate data, provide the related sources, and avoid using personal opinions.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Rye-96 (talk) 10:31, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
The demonstration of March 1979 and the Cultural Revolution of 1980[edit]
Certain paragraphs of the section After the 1979 Revolution, regarding the March 1979 Demonstration and the 1980 Cultural Revolution, have been variously removed by a number of users who claim the portions to be incorrect, and criticize the descriptive expression of the text.
The portions have been reviewed, along with wording modification and additional references.
Please avoid repeating the removal, to prevent edit wars. Such performances are regarded as vandalism, and will led to administrator attention, where the vandals will be blocked. To provide your remaining criticisms, please discuss on this page.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Rye-96 (talk) 15:49, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
- I reverted such nonsense because its misinformation. Alleged "mass demonstration" included only ten to fifteen thousands participants (Shahidian, 2002, p. 21; Ramezani, 2010), and only few of them were motivated by rumors about dress code and family law (see Milani, 1992, p. 37-38; Algar, 2001, p. 83), while far larger demonstrations in support of Ayatollah Khomeini and denunciation of these intrigues of the leftists on the one hand and the upper classes on the other went largely unreported in the Western press (see Algar, 2001, p. 84). Rumors were based upon distorted series of sentences in the speech of Ayatollah Khomeini (see Algar, 2001, p. 83-84), and Iranian officials including prime minister Bazargan announced that the left-wing troublemakers, corrupt royalists, and counterrevolutionary elements had distorted the ayatollah’s statement (see Milani, 1992, p. 37; Algar, 2001, p. 84). Rumors were proved as completely false because decision about restoring original dress-code was made in 1984 (five years after this march), and family law was actually replaced by a far more protective law in 1987 (see Hoodfar, 1993, p. 12). Another very controversial thing is participation of Kate Millett who popularized this event with her book "Going to Iran", and its content was described as symptomatic of ethnocentrism and even racism because she suggests that the only way to liberation is to follow Western women’s models and strategies for change (see Hoodfar, 1993, p. 12-13). This short overview based on two Western and two Iranian reviews:
- Algar, Hamid (2001): Roots of the Islamic Revolution in Iran: Four Lectures, Oneonta, New York: Islamic Publications International (IPI), ISBN 9781889999265
- Hoodfar, Homa (fall 1993): The Veil in Their Minds and On Our Heads: The Persistence of Colonial Images of Muslim Women, Resources for feminist research (RFR) / Documentation sur la recherche féministe (DRF), Vol. 22, n. 3/4, p. 5-18, Toronto: Ontario Institute for Studies in Education of the University of Toronto (OISE), ISSN 0707-8412
- Milani, Farzaneh (1992): Veils and Words: The Emerging Voices of Iranian Women Writers, Syracuse, New York: Syracuse University Press, ISBN 9780815602668
- Ramezani, Reza (2010): Hijab dar Iran az Enqelab-e Eslami ta payan Jang-e Tahmili [Hijab in Iran from the Islamic Revolution to the end of the Imposed war] (Persian), Faslnamah-e Takhassusi-ye Banuvan-e Shi’ah [Quarterly Journal of Shiite Women], Qom: Muassasah-e Shi’ah Shinasi, ISSN 1735-4730
- Dubious, controversial and marginal events are not worth mentioning in primary article about Iran. --MehrdadFR (talk) 17:01, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
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