Talk:Ireland

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Good article Ireland has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Ireland:

TRANSPORT! the new terminal 2 has been finished!! could someone add information and add a photo? thanks

  • Communications (broadband coverage, etc.) - add to Economy section

+ Any chance of someone contributing approximate rainfall too to the Geography section? Thanks. + may as well delete the economy section now.


Not the largest, but the second largest[edit]

Ireland is, of course, not the largest (in terms of area) island of the British Isles archipelago, but only the second largest one, whereas Great Britain is the largest island there !! Thomas Limberg (Schmogrow) 93.197.46.203 (talk) 08:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Read closer, that's just what the article says. IgnorantArmies (talk) 09:12, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
But, the sentence is quite poorly worded. The words "... after which it is the largest island of the British Isles archipelago" could easily be omitted, especially as the British Isles are, in geographical terms, not really an archipelago at all (why include both Shetland and Jersey, but not, say, the Faroes?). Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:18, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Can someone please revise the awkward first sentence "from which it is separated..." , "after which it is the largest". DGerman (talk) 15:48, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Would this be acceptable:
Ireland.... is an island in the North Atlantic separated from the west coast of Great Britain by the North Channel, the Irish Sea, and St George's Channel. It is the second-largest island of the British Isles after Great Britain, the third-largest in Europe and the twentieth-largest on Earth.
Qexigator (talk) 16:45, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

add the yola language name for ireland[edit]

hi i would like to add the yola name for ireland to the page. yola is a language from wexford. thankyou — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yola12345 (talkcontribs) 23:14, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

"Yola" is extinct, according to the wikipedia article on it: Forth and Bargy dialect. --Julius R.S (talk) 17:10, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Norsemen[edit]

In Bósa saga ok Herrauðs is to read:

  • Herraud's best friend was Bósi, the younger son of a former viking named Thvari or Bryn-Thvari by Brynhild, a former shieldmaiden and a daughter of King Agnar of Nóatún.
  • Bósi was a rough boy who was eventually outlawed for maiming some other folk in a ball-game. Herraud, discontented, gained permission from his father, over Sjód's objections, be allowed to set off on a Viking expedition with five ships

There is, however, no such thing as a former Norseman, mentioned in the sources. Dan Koehl (talk) 22:49, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Egil Skallagrimsson saga: Björn var farmaður mikill, var stundum í víking, en stundum í kaupferðum; Björn var hinn gervilegasti maður. (english: Björn was a great traveller; sometimes as viking, sometimes as tradesman.

So, a Norseman could be a viking for some time, and he could be a tradesman (or a baker, or a shepherd) for some time. But not all tradesmen, bakers, shepherds and vikings were Norseman.

Norseman spoke norse, but norse vikings did not speak vikingish, and norse shepherds did not speak shepherdish or bakerish.

Norsemen had norse culture, but there was no norse viking, baker or shepherd culture.

I think its important to remind people today about the term Norsemen, an accepted term by historians and archelogists, referring to people from the north, present Scandinavia. This term does not have any certain time limit, the Norsemen were norse in years, 400, 500, 657, 749, 803, 950, 1066 and 1100. Norsemen is a true ethnical group, for some reason neglected on Wikipedia. Whenever the word viking is mentioned, it can correctly be replaced by the term Norsemen in 95% of the cases. Norsemen are described in other Wikipedia languages, and since the english Wikipedia should be written from a global point of view, the term Norse and Norsemen should not be treated different.

The first documented use of the word viking is made by Orosius, written in latin, and translated into old english. There is to read about Alexander the Great´s father, Philip II of Macedonia: Philippus vero post longam obsidionem, ut pecuniam quam obsidendo exhauserat, praedando repararet, piraticam adgressus est. translated into: ac he scipa gegaderade, and i vicingas wurdon. In this time the word pirat was not used in the english language, the latin piraticam was directly translated to vicingus.

Interestingly enough, theres stories in the sagas, describing arabic piates, and they were in the sagas referred to, as vikings. = Vikings could be arabs practising piracy, and vikings could be macedonian kings practising piracy, but peaceful norse farmers, and their wifes, were never, ever, described as vikings before 1900.

For over 1 000 years, viking was nothing else than an old-english translation of the latin word pirate.

A macedonian king will never, ever, become scandinavian. An arabic pirat will never become scandinavian.

But a norseman was scandinavian, and the present scandinavians are descendants of Norsemen, according to historians and archelogists.

The sentence The linguistic contact of the Viking settlers of the Danelaw with the Anglo-Saxons left traces in the English language reflects a very poor knowledge in what viking actually means. As well as poor knowledge in the term Norsemen.

'Viking is a controversial term, Norsemen is not. For some reason, some people absolutely wants to call my ancestors vikings, which is historically incorrect and besides, unpolite. The Scandinavians as a an ethnic group, is more or less the same as Norsemen, Theres no problem whatsoever to use the correct term. Dan Koehl (talk) 11:32, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

"The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability" Hohenloh + 13:18, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Infobox re sovereign states[edit]

As we all know, Ireland is the name of the sovereign state with jurisdiction over 5/6ths of the island. Could we fix the info box accordingly? At the moment it says "Republic of Ireland" which isn't the name of any state and doesn't appear on any passport! My edit around this was reverted in 22 seconds (a record I think for me). Frenchmalawi (talk) 00:53, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

You will be aware that this has been much discussed on Talk pages. Please, if you can, elaborate the point about passports, with as much factual detail as is available. Qexigator (talk) 05:21, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
And if you're doing that why did you not also try turning 'United Kingdom' into 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. ;-) What you were trying to do would just confuse the readers too much. I think a case could be made for giving their official names somewhere near the beginning of the article though if you can think of some phrasing. What you've got there is the state of Ireland described there as the Republic of Ireland to avoid confusion and the United Kingdom' into 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland which is commonly known as the United Kingdom. Dmcq (talk) 08:38, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
IMHO, Northern Ireland should be removed. GoodDay (talk) 10:17, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
I thought you where supposed to be removed from discussions to do with such matters? ;-)
The way the infobox is at present fits accordingly with IMOS seeing as the infobox is about Ireland the island but makes mention of the state which means we must use Republic of Ireland to distinguish them. Mabuska (talk) 11:03, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Obviously I disagree with all this. Supposed consfusion about whether or not we are referring to an island under an infobox called "Sovereign State". The only confusion this is going to cause is about the name of the Irish state which as we all know is Ireland. Frenchmalawi (talk) 00:22, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

...how come no one struggles with the same approach at Solomon Islands archipelago? Why that approach there and this approach here? Frenchmalawi (talk) 00:24, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

To my mind, that is a good question, and it should now be given serious consideation. If the the Ireland (state of) infobox were adapted to the article on the model of Solomon Islands archipelago, what would it look like? Qexigator (talk) 05:22, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Disagree all you want. Dmcq and myself are correct and it follows WP:IMOS which is a community agreed consensus in regards to such matters. Don't like it, then get consensus for a change to it, though as I object to such an idea now, your not going to get a technical consensus. The status of Ireland's real name is not being denied, anyone clicking the wikilink to the article will clearly see that it's official name is Ireland. However the state's official description "Republic of Ireland" is useful to distinguish it from an island that has had the name for over a millenia longer than the present-day state that doesn't even span the entire island. Should we go around using Hellenic Republic in articles instead of Greece because the former is its official name? Look at the article for the Greek city of Thessaloniki. What does its infobox state? Hellenic Republic (the official state name) or Greece (the unofficial state name)? It says Greece. Even the Greeks don't call their state Greece but we use it anyways. Mabuska (talk) 11:45, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

I think we should change the second paragraph of the lead to say what the true name sof the states are.

Politically, Ireland is divided between the Republic of Ireland, which covers five-sixths of the island, and Northern Ireland, a part of the United Kingdom, which covers the remaining area and is located in the north-east of the island. The description Republic of Ireland is used in this article instead of the state's official name 'Ireland' to avoid confusion with the name of the island. The United Kingdom's full official name is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The population of Ireland is about 6.4 million. Just under 4.6 million live in the Republic of Ireland and just over 1.8 million live in Northern Ireland.[7]

hHow about that? Dmcq (talk) 13:30, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
Too long. If it even needs to be changed it would be simpler to simple state: "Politically, Ireland is divided between the Republic of Ireland (officially named Ireland), which covers five-sixths of the island, and Northern Ireland, a part of the United Kingdom, which covers the remaining area and is located in the north-east of the island." Mabuska (talk) 11:00, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
That reads better okay but that paragraph is about political divisions and we have enough people around who go on about officialese and I think we should get that business out in the open and over and done with somewhere, if not there then later in the article - after all the lead is supposed to be a summary. How about we put that summary in the lead and a longer version at the start of the Politics section? Dmcq (talk) 14:07, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
To be honest, I'm surprised the Republic of Ireland section doesn't make a brief mention of the official name, though a slightly expanded upon instance of it is all that is needed as the main article deals with the intricacies of it. Mabuska (talk) 21:40, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

"Ireland"[edit]

The naming of the article at Ireland and the usage and topic of the pagename "Ireland" are up for discussion, see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ireland_Collaboration#Move "Ireland" to "Ireland (island)" or similar (June 2015) -- 70.51.203.69 (talk) 05:08, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Demonym: Northern Irish[edit]

I wish to add "Northern Irish" to the Demonym element of the infobox. Demonym: Northern Irish is already recognized on wikipedia here and from the most recent census in 2011, over half a million people in Northern Ireland are Northern Irish. Dubs boy (talk) 23:05, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Northern Irish does not represent a demonym for the island. Irish does as someone from the island of Ireland is Irish. There is no logical or rationale reason to stick Northern Irish in here. At Northern Ireland yes but not here. Seriously engage that brain before typing Dubs boy. Mabuska (talk) 10:41, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
[1] Normally best practice is to go back and delete an uncivil comment (that you added in haste), not to go back and add one (that you didn't add in the first place). IgnorantArmies (talk) 12:00, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 July 2015[edit]

Please change Ireland is part of the British Isles as this name is disputed, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute. Also your ref 6 is a link to UN page and not specific to ireland being officially part of the British Isles. Kindly present an official reference. News Insight (talk) 14:49, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done as stated in British Isles naming dispute "the British Isles" refers to a European archipelago consisting of Great Britain, Ireland and adjacent islands. AFAIK there is no other WP:Common name for this group of islands - if there is please provide it, with a reliable source. - Arjayay (talk) 15:12, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Please find a link to an alternative name - IONA (Islands of the North Atlantic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islands_of_the_North_Atlantic "It has been used particularly in the context of the Northern Irish peace process during the negotiation of the Good Friday Agreement, as a neutral name for the proposed council.[4]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by News Insight (talkcontribs) 15:32, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Ref 6 is not accurate. Change the line 'Ireland is part of the British Isles ' or show an unbiased (non british) source thats internationally recognised. The term is offensive to Irish people "Many political bodies, including the Irish government, avoid describing Ireland as being part of the British Isles; Eamon de Valera, for example, corrected John Gunther when the journalist used the term during a private meeting in the mid-1930s.[39]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by News Insight (talkcontribs) 16:23, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Please change Ireland is part of the British Isles as this name is disputed please see, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute. Also The reference 6 after this sentence is a link to UN page and not accurate in showing any evidence to suggest Ireland being part of the British Isles. Kindly present an official reference. News Insight (talk) 14:49, 5 July 2015 (UTC) I can suggest an alternative name - IONA (Islands of the North Atlantic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islands_of_the_North_Atlantic "It has been used particularly in the context of the Northern Irish peace process during the negotiation of the Good Friday Agreement" Here is quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute. about the term 'British Isles' "The term is offensive to Irish people "Many political bodies, including the Irish government, avoid describing Ireland as being part of the British Isles; Eamon de Valera, for example, corrected John Gunther when the journalist used the term during a private meeting in the mid-1930s.[39]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by News Insight (talkcontribs) 16:29, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

IPA pronunciation[edit]

The pronunciation /ˈaɪərlənd/ is, what Americans say. The majority of people say including the Irish say /ˈaɪrlənd/.