Talk:Ireland

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Good article Ireland has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Ireland:

This sentence makes little sense: Gaelic Ireland had emerged by the 1st century AD and lasted until the First World War.


TRANSPORT! the new terminal 2 has been finished!! could someone add information and add a photo? thanks

  • Communications (broadband coverage, etc.) - add to Economy section

+ Any chance of someone contributing approximate rainfall too to the Geography section? Thanks. + may as well delete the economy section now.


IPA pronunciation[edit]

The pronunciation /ˈaɪərlənd/ is, what Americans say. The majority of people say including the Irish say /ˈaɪrlənd/.

Infobox Statistics[edit]

I noticed that the stats in the infobox at the top of the page all seem to be taken from sources that are at least 3 years old, some as much as five years or older. Not a big deal for some categories, but I very much suspect that a lot of the demographics information is badly in need of updating. It looked off enough to me that I felt the need to check the date on the sources anyway. I'm not a regular contributor, and I don't have replacement sources/stats ready to pop in, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to shine a light on it in case someone felt like looking in to it? Thanks. 37.228.226.218 (talk) 23:39, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Questions and comments[edit]

I read the article and I found it very interesting. I made some minor fixes and improvements, to the grammar, the punctuation and the layout. I leave below a series of questions and comments.

1. "In 1166, Mac Murrough had fled to Anjou, France, following a war involving Tighearnán Ua Ruairc, of Breifne, and sought the assistance of the Angevin king, Henry II, in recapturing his kingdom".

What kingdom?

2. "The British–Irish Intergovernmental Conference provides for co-operation between the Government of Ireland and the Government of the United Kingdom on all matter of mutual interest, especially Northern Ireland."

The last part of the sentence, "especially Northern Ireland" is somewhat ambiguous. I feel that it could be improved.

3. The section that starts with "The algal and seaweed flora" and ends with "although for many years it was regarded as an alien species" in my opinion is awkward, unnecessary, irrelevant, out of context and out of place. It just does not fit with the rest of the text above.

4. "Counties in Northern Ireland are no longer used for local governmental purposes".

What's the reason?

5. Under the "Migration" section, the Great Famine has two date ranges: 1845 to 1852 and 1845 to 1849. This is inconsistent.

6. "As of 2006, 4.3 million Canadians, or 14% of the population, are of Irish descent. As of 2013, a total of 34.5 million Americans claim Irish ancestry."

If the Canada has a percentage it would be proper to add a percentage for the U.S.A.

7. "The Irish philosopher and theologian Johannes Scotus Eriugena was considered one of the leading intellectuals of his early Middle Ages."

His of who?

8. "Paddy Barnes secured bronze in those games and gold in the 2010 European Amateur Boxing Championships".

What are "those" games?

9. What is "salmon driftnet fishery"?

ICE77 (talk) 05:34, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

By and large I have reverted all your edits as they were not helpful.
I have made four minor edits to solve your concerns (question 9, 7, 5, 4). Question 6 is irrelevant. All others are a case of better reading as the answer is in all cases to be found in the sentences just before the disputed text. The Banner talk 09:43, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

OK, whatever. ICE77 (talk) 05:38, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Area of island discussion[edit]

I removed two tags of "dubious" about the area of the island. I didn't see any discussion challenging this on the talk page but now see it has been brought up in archived discussions at least in 2009. It seems someone claims this statement comes from the Republic of Ireland and is wrong? I added an additional citation from National Geographic. If there are credible allegations that the Republic of Ireland was lying/mistaken in its evaluation of the island's area, wouldn't this be a widely known dispute? Surely it would be significant enough to include, if there were anyone of prominence countering with a different number? Otherwise it seems to be WP:OR that it is dubious. Additionally, as was suggested in 2009, any discrepancy seems to be concerning whether or not outlying islands are being counted. Could we get this clarified? Since the 84k figure is given in regards to the actual Island of Ireland itself, it would be confusing if this included the area of other islands nearby. I'm not an expert in this area so am proposing this sake of clarity for laypeople reading the article. МандичкаYO 😜 20:57, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

See #Area above (I just restored it from the archive). Rob984 (talk) 01:14, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
@Rob984: Thank you, but I don't see it restored on this page? I purged the cache but still no luck. Can you try again? Nevermind, I see it was re-archived by a bot. Is there a way to get such an old discussion back and to stick? It would be great if we could continue the discussion because having an incorrect area for such a prominent island is bad (and so are dubious tags). МандичкаYO 😜 07:02, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
The difference between the various figures is quite a bit less than the difference between the shore at high and low tide, so do we really need to worry about the value from one source compared to another except to take the most reliable source? The difference has nothing to do with islands. Dmcq (talk) 09:26, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

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Here's my comment from that discussion:

I can't find any other reliable sources from a quick Google Search, but...

The Republic of Ireland has an area of 70,273[1]–70,282 km2[2]
Northern Ireland has an area of 14,130 km2[3]

The figure cited by the Irish Government for the whole island is 84,421 km2, greater than the combined area of the two jurisdictions (84,417 km2).

Note also that the source is comparing the Republic of Ireland's area to the whole of Ireland—which would be a misleading comparison if it did not include surrounding islands like in the Republic of Ireland's figure.

The area of just a few islands would create discrepancy: Achill Island (146 km2), Great Island (53 km2) Inishmore (31 km2), Valentia Island (26 km2), Gorumna Island (24 km2), Bere Island (19 km2), Aran Island (18 km2), Clare Island (16 km2)[4]

So I thinnk all islands taken into account could encompass around 2,500 km2, as the UN's Island Directory suggests.

Although I agree, additional sources would be ideal.

Rob984 (talk) 13:31, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Like I said, it's pretty clear the Irish Government is taking into account both jurisdictions (since it's being compared with the Republic's total area), so why are we using it as a source for the island?

My understanding is that area figures are calculated up to the low-tide line, given this is regarded as the edge of land and beginning of territorial waters under international law.

Edit: To add, the area of countries often also takes into account coastal internal waters (e.g. small bays), which you wouldn't typically include as part of the area of an island from a geographical perspective. It doesn't make sense for the island to be larger then both jurisdictions when the jurisidctions are taking into account coastal internal waters and other islands, up to the low water mark. The UN's figure is 81,638 sq. km. Here is the listing in the UN's island directory: http://islands.unep.ch/IBT.htm#749

Rob984 (talk) 17:12, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

You're talking about a 3 km^2 difference between two reliable sources. There is no requirement to talk about islands in that context - that is your own original research. They say their figures are the area of the island, they are authorities, what they mean is irrelevant. The difference is insignificant, it is spurious accuracy. Applied to the length of Ireland it would make a 10m difference. And the shoreline is a fractal where it is very hhard to be shure what is included in the low tide. I am removing your 'dubious' because the figure iis accurate whichever oone you include and the only question is which accurate version to include. Dmcq (talk) 17:35, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Category:Former disputed islands[edit]

I added the above Cat and User:Dmcq reverted this. His reason per edit summary was "not what is meant by the category". There was a territorial dispute concerning part of the island of Ireland as recently as 1999. Why, then, does it not fall neatly into this category? Frenchmalawi (talk) 22:15, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Clearly it's for small islands and islets - down to "submerged reefs." Rockall, if and when that disupute is ever settled, would qualify. Ireland doesn't. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 09:25, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
why is it "clear" it's for "small islands and islets"? The category is former disputed "islands". The island of Ireland is an island. Frenchmalawi (talk) 12:27, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
This is actually a very difficult category, practically every single piece of land in the world has been disputed and fought over at some point but we can't just add every island in the world to this category. Canterbury Tail talk 13:11, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
If you have to apply 'logic' to try and show something then it isn't for Wikipedia, or at the very least don't start up discussions arguing for your latest idea you got over breakfast. It wastes little bits of peoples' lives. Find a citation saying Ireland was a disputed island. Dmcq (talk) 13:25, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
User talk:Canterbury Tail: Agree with what you say about every piece of land having been disputed. However, Ireland is an island and it was the subject of an active sovereignty dispute that was only resolved in 1999 under an international agreement. I'm not making up any of this. There are tonnes of sources out there User:Dmcq e.g. [5] which talks about the sovereignty dispute and talks of an "island-wide national right of self determination"; the "entire island". It refers to Ireland's constitution "claiming sovereignty over the entire island". This was the first source I came to. There are many, many others. I suspect the facts concerning the former sovereignty dispute on the island are pretty well known to those here on this discussion page. Why listing Ireland as a former disputed island is controversial, I don't know. The facts are so well known. The citations are plentiful. Frenchmalawi (talk) 00:30, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
The citation does not say Ireland is a disputed island or that it ever has been. The UK does not say it has rights to the whole island and there never was a time it disputed control of the whole island with another government unless you're going to consider everyone who stands up saying they are starting a revolution as being a bona fide government. As I said before find a citation that specifically supports what you say. Less is more - all the words you write trying to make out that something is saying something else is simply evidence that it does not say it. If you find yourself writing a long justification just try also considering that you might be wrong. Dmcq (talk) 10:28, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Misattribution of Uragh stone circle[edit]

Your picture of Uragh stone circle early in the Ireland article states incorrectly that it is in Gleninchaquin Park. It is not and this may be verified via the gleninchaquin.com website. This stresses the information that the stone circle is not in the park. The Uragh stone circle is in.....Uragh!

Denis Healy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Denis Healy (talkcontribs) 14:28, 10 August 2017 (UTC)