|WikiProject Australia / Demographics||(Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)|
|WikiProject Ireland||(Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)|
=== Why are there so many people with Irish ancestry in Australia ===. Well there are many opinions to this but have you ever heard an Australia person with Irish Ancestry speak or even know that there offical or nation language is Glaelic. Or tell you that Ireland has been a Republic since 1921. And why do the English hate Irish people so much?. Is it because Irish people are the first to call foreigners racist comments like "WOG" or swear?.
- 1 2005 or earlier comments
- 2 Vote for Deletion
- 3 Deleting comments
- 4 Changed the Article
- 5 Bone of contention
- 6 Detailed transport information
- 7 Famous Irish Australians
- 8 Irish Australians
- 9 Notable Irish Australians
- 10 Ancestry estimate of 6 million or 30%
- 11 Irish language
- 12 Image copyright problem with File:Cole turner.jpg
- 13 Sporting section is dodgy
- 14 Infobox - too many images
- 15 St Patricks Day Irish
2005 or earlier comments
With regard to the below comments....most of this information also shows up on the Australian Embassy web site in Dublin. So, if you would like...you could certainly take it up with the Australian government.
The tone of this article is totally unsuitable for Wikipedia. It reads like one of those sentimental nationalist tracts so beloved of second-generation Irish-Americans. The article needs to be rewritten completely, preferably by someone who knows about the subject and can write about it in a rational tone.
Australia is probably the most Irish country in the world outside of Ireland,
This is a vague, subjective, and ridiculous claim. (What's the most Irish country *inside of* Ireland? How 'Irish' is any country?) - there is nothing vague about it...as a percentage of population, the Irish have always been a huge part of Australian society...read some history books to familiarize yourself.
with around 35% of Australians having Irish ancestry.
Possibly true, but please cite.(According to ABS only about 10% of Australia population claim Irish Ancestry) - also keep in mind, that the number of Australian's claiming Irish ancestry actually more than doubled since the last census...the last census was actually only the second time and ancestry question was asked...it is believed now that more and more Australians are coming to terms with their Irish ancestry....it was not always a good thing to be Irish in a British dependency...times are changing....also, over 6 million people classified themselves are Australian....commonsense would suggest that a large percentage of these people would descend from Irish immigrants during the 19th century...this belief is widely held with many academia...
I'd take some issue with the "it was not always a good thing to be Irish in a British dependency" line. This may have been true in the 1920's, and possibly during '50's. But we're talking about a census in 2001! Keating used to run around with Irishness pinned on his sleeve, we had various pundits going on throughout the 1990's effectively claiming that Australia is an "Irish foundation" and even claiming that "up to 50%" of the population could be called Irish to "some degree". Some of these “claims” were based upon the idea that there are people in Ireland with names like “Smith” and “Davies” and therefore people in Australia with those names might have Irish ancestry – anything to boost the numbers. Even Hawke (who's of Cornish ancestry) strutted up to the Irish Parliament with the words "it's so good to be Home" - he never said that to the House of Commons in Westminster! Even the old perennial, Irish jokes, faded away in the 1980's, or so I'm told. So I don't think that in 2001 people were having "trouble" coming to grips with their "Irish ancestry", that would have been contrary to the zeitgeist of the time. I would have thought it harder to own up to being a "pom" in that atmosphere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 15:27, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
The Irish have been fundamental in the creation of modern Australian and helped shape its character from early in its colonisation.
The second clause in this sentence is just a variation of the first.
The Irish first came over in large numbers as convicts. Even larger numbers of free settlers came during the 19th to the 20th century. The Irish made immense contributions to Australia's law, religion, labour movement, music, education, literature and the arts over the course of their strong presence.
"'Immense' contributions" and "'strong' presence" are unsuitable POV language. Also, please give instances of Irish-Australian contributions in every case.
Famous Irish Australians include Ned Kelly.
If you're going to embark on a list of famous Irish Australians, then please 'include' more than one. As it stands, this sentence is laughably anticlimactic.
Possibly true, but please cite
PLEASE sign your posts
Superdude99 17:17, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Vote for Deletion
By the way, 188.8.131.52, deleting comments is generally not done. If you disagree that the tone of your article is biased, feel free to argue your case here.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk • contribs)
Changed the Article
Any better? Thesocialistesq 17:26, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Bone of contention
During the wave of Irish immigration, unlike the United States and Canada Irish Australians did not face ethnic discrimination
I don't believe this is true, whilst there was no official governmental policy of discrimination against the Irish there are many examples of it in practice. To the early governors the Irish Catholics (the vast majority of them) were seen as troublemakers and rebels see Castle Hill Rebellion. Catholic religious services were banned and the Irish convicts were forced to attend Protestant services. Up until the mid 20th century Australia was divided on sectarian lines of British Protestants/Irish Catholics with entry certain to certain sections of the public service closed to Catholics. Soundabuser 11:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
In Brisbane there was marked sectarianism until recently, but the public sector was seen as Roman Catholic and business interests as Protestant (and Masonic). Millbanks 08:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
- With reference to the Castle Hill rebellion - rebels fo any persuasion are rarely viewed favourably. Most of the rebels were already Irish dissidents. If wish to assert convicts forced to attend protestant services, please cite sources. Doesn't reconcile with the history of the Roman Catholic Church in Australia (article is a bit sparse) - in particular see the article on William Bernard Ullathorne and Millers Point, New South Wales.--A Y Arktos\talk 00:52, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Detailed transport information
I was thinking of adding a section about the Donegal Relief Fund, a project created by the state of Donegal in Northern Ireland where about 1000 Irishmen and women immigrated to Australia. And I'm sure there's other similar cases. Should they be included in this page or should a new wiki page be created altogether? --French line 14:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Famous Irish Australians
I deleted Merle Oberon. She was not born in Tasmania, as she claimed, but in Bombay of a British father and mixed race (Anglo-Sinhalese) mother. There is no evidence of her being "Irish". I added Sir James Duhig but for some unaccountable reason he was deleted, so I've reinstated him. I also added John Howard, who is apparently as Irish as Paul Keating but does not make a meal of it. Ned Kelly was Irish Austrlalian. He was sentenced to death by an Irish born judge for murdering Irish born policemen. Millbanks 07:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
How about Errol Flynn? He WAS born in Tasmania, and in the US at least, always said he was "Irish" and not "Australian". He would count surely, and is surely a more positive than a killer and thief who's made out to be a "hero". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 15:35, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Was John McEwen really "Irish Australian". I can find no evidence of this. The name is Scottish. Incidentally, the Scottish people (Scots born) I met in Australia told me that they were often taken for being Irish, which they didn't seem to like. Millbanks 08:01, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Its been stated that the irish australians are the second largest group in the census 2001 after australian on the main page.
seems someone has got their information wrong on this.
In the 2001 Census, the most common ancestry was Australian (presumably Anglo-Celtic) with 35.9% of all people choosing this as one of their responses; next most popular were English (33.9%), Irish (10.2%), Italian (4.3%) German (4.0%), Chinese (3.0%), Scottish (2.9%) and Greek (2.0%). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anglo67 (talk • contribs) 21:09, 6 May 2007 (UTC).
Notable Irish Australians
There are some peculiar entries in here, like John Howard. Ideally, I'd like to see cites to verify that they are all true, but there is a lot of entries in there and it will be a big job. Lankiveil (speak to me) 03:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC).
- I have added a table to improve transparency as to how Irish Australian is assessed - obviously many entries need the connections with Ireland and Australia added to the table. Filling int he details will then allow the reader to decide whether someone can be fairly described as Irish Australian. Personally I can't see the justification for Mel Gibson to be in this list but ... --Matilda talk 00:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Ancestry estimate of 6 million or 30%
The estimate is referred to also in the lead and supported by footnote currently numbered 2 - ie http://www.ireland.embassy.gov.au/dubl/relations.html - The Australian Embassy in Ireland states Up to thirty percent of Australians claim some degree of Irish ancestry - six of the seven Prime Ministers in the twenty years from 1929 to 1949 had Irish forebears. There are 50,000 Irish-born residents in Australia. --Matilda talk 21:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
The embassy is spruiking Irish links - that's what they do. Let's say someone had 1 Irish great great grandparent but the other 15 came from England, Scotland, Wales, does that make this person "Irish" or a "Brit" by ancestory? Clearly they've got some Irish background, but is it accurate to call them Irish? Judging from that, I'd dare say that a very high proportion of England's population would be "Irish" - care to make that claim? I remember reading in a History book on John Curtin (who was "Irish") that in 1945 Catholics made up 20% of the Australian population. I wouldn't have thought that they were ALL Irish, just mostly Irish, but even if they were, to get to the "30%" mark, it means that at least 10% of Australia's population had to be Irish Protestants. As Protestants made up only 25% of Ireland's population, this means they must have migrated at TWICE the rate of Irish Catholics, yet one would have thought they'd have had less reason to leave! Also, how "Irish" are the Protestants, I've heard Irish Catholics dismiss them as "Scots" or "English" settlers and occupiers. I think the main "claim" to Australia's "Irishness" is the rapidity in which the Irish were "mainstreamed", even if there was still a divide (although this was sectarian, so orangemen were probably exempt), with men of Irish origin becoming Prime Minister well before World War Two, and on both sides of politics too. Long before Kennedy became President. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 15:08, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
According to the ABS only 918 Australian residents in 2006 speak Irish at home. I do not consider this number large enough to warrant Irish being included as a language spoken by Irish Australians. Kransky (talk) 12:40, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Image copyright problem with File:Cole turner.jpg
The image File:Cole turner.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
- That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
- That this article is linked to from the image description page.
The following images also have this problem:
Sporting section is dodgy
The claim that the "Irish" played Australian Rules Football and Rugby, whilst the "Protestant Majority" preferred "cricket and soccer" varies from the dodgy to the absurd! Firstly, there have been PLENTY of players of Irish origin who played cricket: Bill O'Reilly, Stan McCabe, Craig McDermott, Glen McGrath, Clarry Grimmit (although he was born in New Zealand) and that's just a small sample. Many of these players started playing for their Catholic Schools too, so the notion that ethnic Irish people didn't play cricket in any significant way is absurd. Also, whilst I have no doubt that Australians of Irish origin played Rugby and Football as their prime winter sports, they clearly were no different in this than the "Protestant majority". Soccer, until VERY recently, was called "Wogball" and played primarily by more recent immigrants from Mediterranean backgrounds, which is why so many soccer clubs have affiliations with Macedonian, Italian, Croatian, Serbian, Greek etc ethnic communities. This section makes no sense at all, and would be best re-written to mention many of the big figures in these sports who have Irish origins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 16:30, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Infobox - too many images
There are far too many faces in this infobox. Do we really need TWO soccer players ? I would have thought one prominent person from each field is enough. Tim Cahill is born in AUstralia and has mostly Samoan heritage and his father is English. So I have removed him. There are also no citations in the Joshua Kennedy that he has Irish heritage and he was in fact born in Australia. --Redclass (talk) 23:59, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi, I put the cleanup tag on the article because the images are overlapping and not evenly spaced, but if you think there are too many images you can fix that too. Passengerpigeon (talk) 09:13, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
I'd like if someone could add the Irish-Australian flag I tried but i can't figure out how cuz all these copyright rules that wikipedia now has.
You can find the pic and info on these links:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/a/au_irish.gif — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yamama3000 (talk • contribs) 08:50, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
St Patricks Day Irish
Anyway in Sydney on the 14/3/2014 on 97.3FM a well spoken Irish lady who also spoke Gaelic/Gallic/Irish language was talking in detail for ages about St Patrick Day. And yes I can confirm an ABC report asked her if it's true a 33% of Australians have Irish ancestory ( He must have got is info from here wikipedia). He answer was no its much less around 20-25% who have at least some Irish ancestory ( Same as the the old adds on TV from Ancestory.com. So shamrocks, leprechauns and blarney stone to you. Also have you noticed in the media all these people who go around using a coward punch or king hit have Irish/ Scottish surnames?. Or is it me?. And thank you for bringing your culture to Australia and for your worship of the Blarney Stone (Google: Blarney Stone) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 22:52, 16 March 2014 (UTC)