Talk:Islamic culture

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Right now, the [[by following the tenants of Islam 100%) it does not mean that the two are inseperable. In fact, cultural practices have possibly led to the decline of Muslim governance in accordance with Qur'an and Sunnah and it can be seen in the legal (and clutural) practices of governments and people around the world today. ed "Islamicate culture" to denote non-religious culture? The fact is that there is a lot about Islamic civilazation which is cultural and not religious. For example the evolution of elements of Islamic architecture (domes, mihrabs and minarets of mosques especially) from pre-Islamic origins. Compare this article to Jewish culture; obviously the stuff there is not part of Judaism as a religion.asssfd

Usually when Muslim culture is used academically, it's in reference to a sub-culture, for example Indian Muslim culture (see --Zeeshanhasan 19:52, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Islamicate never took off. I think I've seen it in one book aside from Hodgson.
It is also the case that the whole concept of "culture",heyyy!!!!!! as something that can be viewed as one entity, is not as widely accepted these days.
You might try reading Clifford Geertz, Islam Observed -- I'm reading it now. He's hard put to come up with any Islamic commonality between Indonesia and Morocco. He was held up to me as an exemplar when I was an anthropology graduate student, and now I think he's all style and no substance. Patricia Crone's Pre-industrial Societies, where she uses the anthropological concept "Great and little traditions", might also be relevant.
I just had a google for Muslim culture and cultural Muslim. I've found two instances where people defined themselves as cultural Muslims. Most anthropology courses talk about Muslim cultures or societies -- in the plural.
I just can't see this article being about anything out there in the real world; it seems to be you defining your identity. Zora 10:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

You are right in that I have been unable to find usages of the isolated term "Muslim culture". I admit that lack of usage of Islamicate or Islamic culture may be grounds to delete the article.

However, this article still seems to me to be a good place to lump together things like Islamic art and architecture, which otherwise don't seem linked as part of a larger tradition. The only other alternative seems to be to start rewriting Islamic studies... groan. --Zeeshanhasan 11:35, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

The article ought to be deleted. It essentially suggests that Arabs, Turks, Persians, Afghans, Kurds, Balochis, Pashtuns, Indian Muslims, Bengalis, Malaysians, Hui people, Albanians, Bosnians, Greek Muslims, Indonesians, Afro-American Nation of Islam followers, and Black Muslims in Africa are all united under a single culture. I suppose we could also throw in the thousands of White Germans that converted to Islam in the year 2006, and say that they are now a part of Islamic "culture?" Clearly this is not the case.. The article really makes very little sense. Further, Islamic art and architecture is heavily influenced by pre-Islamic ideas and thoughts, like the Byzantines, the North Africans and the Persians. No one would refer to Persian architecture as "Zoroastrian" architecture, just like no one refers to the collective category of Romanesque, Gothic, and Byzantine architecture as "Christian" architecture. The term Islamic Culture is meaningless. 02:47, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I would agree in the usage (in this case) of Islamic culture. Culture however is a peoples journey through time. Although some would krindge at the term "American Culture" the fact is that it exists. It exists becuase of the amalgamation of the different cultures it has brought into its melting pot.

However, Islamic culture (or Muslim culture) should be recognized with the same discourse. That it's tolerance of the various "cultures" allowed for new ideas. This in itself has meaning. To focus, Islamic culture is the result of practicing Islam to it's full effect. The change it manifests in people and places and governments would be to speak ill of it by not accepting it as a culture. However, do not associate local customs and practices as Islamic, rather as the tolerance of the Islamic culture towards them. What people do is their responsibility, not the religions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Rename page ?[edit]

How about renaming this page Islamic culture. I've created a category Islamic culture, but this should not cause too much confusion. Thoughts ? MP (talk) 18:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Islam Template[edit]

This article is linked from the {{islam}} template, should the template be added? Which is to say is this article "part of a series of articles on Islam"? -Kode 23:10, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

There is only one form of Islamic Marriage[edit]

As-salamu alaikum

Please do not utilize the minority view as if it were mainstream and majority, as has been done with mut'ah. This is outlawed by the final prophet to humanity during his lifetime. No one practiced it after that until people, as they usually do, started following their nafs and desires.

Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 03:59, 3 March 2007 (UTC).

Movin' on up![edit]

As per previous suggestions on the talk page, we should move this to Islamic culture. I believe that is more common in secular academia anyway. --Enzuru 18:37, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Taj Mahal Picture[edit]

Tajmahal has nothing to do with Islam. Remove it.

Assalam Alaykom, I actually disagree with putting a picture of Taj Mahal as a lead picture to the page. I would rather see a picture of Al Kaaba or the prophet mosque in medina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:51, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree. What has the Taj Mahal got to do with Islam? (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:30, 18 May 2009 (UTC).

Well, for one, the Taj Mahal was built by a Muslim ruler... - ZakariyaAliSher (talk) 12:55, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

okay, but we know that the Taj Mahal is located in India, which is largely a Hindu nation (~80% of the population). I think most people that are aware of the Taj Mahal, know that it is located in India. Also one can conclude that it has largely become synonymous with Indian culture. Seeing the Taj Mahal as the emblem for 'Islamic culture' might lead (and obviously has) to confusion as to what is the dominant culture in India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:56, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

India is a largely Hindu nation, but has the worlds 3rd largest Muslim population after Indonesia and Pakistan. As for the Taj Mahal - It is a huge symbol of Islamic culture all over the world, and as for the confusion of cultures- India is a secular country meaning no religion or culture dominates it. --∗∗Farah Desai Khan∗∗ (talk) 22:20, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
It would be better to add your comments and discuss this issue here. --∗∗Farah Desai Khan∗∗ (talk) 22:39, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm mad[edit]

This article has undergone biased and dangerous influences. Children who are not familiar with Islam will read this garbage and believe it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree. This article has serious issues. Morten Isaksen (talk) 16:49, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Needs Clarification[edit]

First of all, as a Muslim I am going to say that I think this article is a good addition to wikipedia, or rather, has the potential to be a good article. Islam - like any religion - has inspired great works of art, calligraphy, music, literature and architecture. One need only look at world renowned wonders like the Taj Mahal, the Burj al-Arab, the Thousand and One Nights, or the qawwali music of the late Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

However, I am also going to say that I have some concerns about this article. First of all, what constitutes 'Islamic art' from 'non-Islamic' or 'pre-Islamic' art? While there are some things that absolutely represent Islamic art - such as Qur'anic calligraphy, Masjid and Sufi music - other things are more dubious. Should we include all works of art, music, film and literature created by a Muslim artist or within a predominantly Muslim country? Is something born of Turkish, Persian, Arabic, Sahelian or South Asian culture automatically assumed to be "Muslim"?

The problem I have is that cultural and even secular works of art probably shouldn't be included in here, and yet at the same time, its arguable as to what exactly IS non-Islamic in many countries. If we are to include, say, classical Arabic music then what would exclude the courtly traditions West Africa or the Swahili Coast?

Which brings me to the other point... the claim made later in the article that sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia had 'less impact' on the rest of the Islamic world. That is absolutely untrue. Indonesia represents the world's largest Muslim population, and Arabic, Persian and Indian culture has contributed elements to Malay and Indonesian culture. The same with sub-Saharan Africa. Many of the Sufi brotherhoods in West Africa have North African origins, while East African taarab music even SOUNDS Arabic and Indian!

I think that this article needs to be cleaned up and broadened to include various elements of Islamic influence, but at the same time I also think that contibutors need to be cautious not to assume any bias. In other words, this shouldn't read like an article about the culture of the Middle East or the culture of South Asia.

Just my two cents on the issue. What do other people think?

- ZakariyaAliSher (talk) 12:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

I also think like you that there's a confusion in this article between Islamic culture and culture from Muslim-majority countries. So according to you, Yağlı güreş and Kurash are Islamic martial arts?--Chrono1084 (talk) 14:22, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Islamic civilization[edit]

Having become familiar with Hodgson and Lewis, I began to notice the same issues on WP identified and addressed with the creation of this article in 2006. I have posted a project proposal for Islamic civilization. I found this page yesterday after I noticed Western civilization redirects to Western culture.

I wish to address a gap in the organization of Islamic material on Wikipedia, and by doing so, address an underlying misconception about Islam. Islamic civilization has traditionally been multiracial and multicultural; in fact, Islamic civilization has traditionally included large numbers of peoples who were not Muslims. To speak of things Islamic can be misleading in certain contexts.

Please see the comments of the original author above. This is about improving our coverage of the subject matter in question: the Islamicate, as Hodgson would say. How we organize and present the material can be as important as the content, in terms of the accuracy of our depictions. Aquib (talk) 11:36, 14 December 2010 (UTC)