Talk:Italo-Albanian Catholic Church

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Albanian Catholic Church[edit]

Uh, I accidently moved the talk page of Albanian Catholic Church when I meant to move the actual Albanian Catholic Church to this location. Consequently, this page has no data and should be removed so that the other page can be moved here. Pmadrid 07:14, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved by Chonak'innotata 16:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)



Italo-Greek Catholic ChurchItalo-Albanian Catholic Church — That's the correct name, according to cnewa; the best source I could find regarding this naming issue. This article was moved to Italo-Greek Catholic Church, on 19 April 2007 by User:Miskin, a Greek editor with the summary "per article title in the Catholic Encyclopaedia"; probably thinking for this page, and I couldn't find anything related in that page. Then, this edit followed to match and support the move. Thanks. kedadial 18:50, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

  • Support CNEWA is an organization part of the Catholic church, making it an expert on such issues.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 19:03, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Support the move. CNEWA is the papal agency. I think the pope and his agency know well what a catholic church is called. The confusion has arised from the fact that catholic Albanians in Italy follow the Byzantine rite (they are uniates), hence the name "Greek". However the Greeks in Italy are not catholics, but orthodox, the Church of Greece has never embraced catholicism since the Great Schism. --Sulmues Let's talk 19:11, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
    • Support. It would be fair to call it the Italo-Albanian Greek Catholic Church, analogous to the other Byzantine-rite churches called "Greek Catholic". -- Chonak (talk) 23:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
  • This move appears to be noncontroversial, so I have completed it. - Chonak (talk) 05:48, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved again?[edit]

The Italian name "Italo-Albanese" appears on the relevant diocesan pages of catholic-hierarchy.org, which copies its information from the Annuario Pontificio (Vatican yearbook). Is there a comparable reliable source to support the Italo-Greek name? If not, there seems to be no justification for the recent move that put the article back under "Italo-Greek Catholic Church". --Chonak (talk) 05:33, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

From an ecclesiastic point of view this church doesn't exist as one jurisdictional body, but it is simply a term used to list three separate and independent entities: the Eparchy of Lungro, the Eparchy of Piana degli Albanesi, and the monastery of Grottaferrata. The first two being populated by Italo-Albanians, the monastery being simply of Byzantine (Greek) Rite. When these three entities are referred to together, they are called "Circoscrizioni Ecclesiastiche Bizantine Cattoliche in Italia" (Byzantine-Catholic Ecclesiastic Bodies in Italy) [1]. So both names are unofficial, "Italo-Albenian" gives more an idea of the most of population it comprises, "Italo-Greek Catholic Church" gives more an idea of the Rite used, and it includes also the monastery of Grottaferrata which is not Italo-Albenian" in roots.A ntv (talk) 10:16, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Please note, Byzantine Churches in communion with Rome are designated by two prefixes prior to the word Catholic - the first is of ethnic origin and the latter denotes the rite to distinguish it from the Roman/Latin amongst others (e.g. Syro-Malabar, Maronite, etc). The Italo-Greek Church refers first to the people, the Italians (i.e. Southern Italians, albeit Italians or persons of Hellenic extraction), and Greek because the Byzantine or Greek form of liturgy used in the celebration of the Holy Eucharist amongst other rituals. Italo-Albanian Greek Catholic Church is more proper than the completely erroneous Italo-Albanian Catholic Church that is used commonly by those not well versed in the subject area. The Ukrainian and Rusyn people of the Byzantine Catholic faith are referred to as Ukrainian Greek Catholics and Ruthenian Greek Catholics, respectively. This is because they are Greek Rite Catholics but are from different ethnic groups and align themselved with counterparts on the Orthodox side. The Italo-Greek Church existed prior to the Albanian population in Italy and the church is erroneous labeled Italo-Albanian because people of Albanian derivation are the majority of followers of this rite as most Italo-Greeks returned to the Greek Orthodox churches in communion Constantinople. Please pardon my grammar ... typing on my Blackberry LongIslander (talk) 22:14, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Chonak - just saw your message. I will do my research so that I can source the name properly. Hope I have not been a nusiance in changing the name prior to sourcing ... my apologies. I am not that active on Wikipedia and should have did my due diligence prior to the change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LongIslander (talkcontribs) 22:18, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

During some reserch by check some various sites for the regular use name:

For the area/ethnic "modifier", we have:

  • Italo-Albanese - 4
  • Italo-Greek-Albanian - 3/if we only count byzcath.org only once: 1
  • Italo-Byzantine - 1

For the "rite"/church identifier, we have:

  • Byzantine Catholics - 3/2
  • Byzantine - 2/1
  • Catholics - 2/1

Unless we go with "Italo-Greek-Albanian Byzantine Catholic Church" for a compromise, it looks like "Italo-Albanese Byzantine Catholic Church" as the article name and listing "Italian (or Italo-)Byzantine-Catholic Church" (seems a more natural translation than "Byzantine-Catholic Ecclesiastic Bodies in Italy" for a Particular Church) as the official name and listing all the rest as other names. Spshu (talk) 17:06, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I suggest you contact Padre Bessarione Kryptoferritis who is a priest and administrator of the Abbey Church at Grottaferrata for official clarification.--68.196.236.115 (talk) 22:59, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

History needs cleanup and sourcing[edit]

The History section needs some rewriting to fix grammar errors, and needs better sourcing. Some of the terminology in the text (e.g., the use of the word "races" suggests that it is derived from some old published source(s), but the lack of ref tags in the text has left the sourcing unclear. I recently marked the CathEnc article as one reference for the section, but that article only documents part of the information in the History section; furthermore, it's a 1913 article, so there may be better sources available now. --Chonak (talk) 14:27, 14 March 2011 (UTC)