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very poorly sourced, such as getty images, and significant reliance on piecing together claims like he's written for... and listing out the articles he created, rather than predominantly sourcing to third party contents Graywalls (talk) 23:46, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The first red flags is citation stuffing ie. adding 2 to 5 citation for a given fact. For example the paragraph listing where he has published "Schlossberg has written for..." .. those cites are doing more than verifying he wrote for a publication, it is stuffing the article with nearly everything he wrote. Why are we doing that? Furthermore do we even need to list every publication he has written for, and not just pick 3 of the most important? This is not a comprehensive CV. HuffPost says "Schlossberg has dabbled in media" .. "dabbled" .. you'd think he was a late-career veteran journalist from all those links, it's overkill. -- GreenC16:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How is it promotionalism when you’re just listing the articles he has written which were widely mentioned in different independent (and even foreign language) sources (few examples below) and his op eds were actually covered by different outlets / publications? By listing, you’re just stating facts. I do admit that when writing that paragraph, I did include in the citation the links to the articles for further proof of verification but not for promotion. How would that even be one? Just restructure the paragraph. The tag for close connection and promo is overkill. But then again this doesn’t surprise me after all the very many articles for deletion requests for this one. Observed lots of pushback re this article for years.) Anyway, other print journalists do list the publications they have bylines in. Schlossberg is a writer, that is his work very much like an author has a bibliography section, a singer has a discography section, an actor has a videography section, etc.
WASHINGTON POST - “During the 2016 election he wrote left-wing op-eds for Politico and The Washington Post”
THE ATLANTIC - “The earnest words of John F. Kennedy's grandson and namesake, John Kennedy Schlossberg, Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg's 18-year-old son, were published in Friday's New York Times. As a "Letter To the Editor" on Page A22.”
INSTYLE - “3. He's a political writer He honed his chops at Yale, where he was a writer for the university's The Yale Herald paper. Since then he has penned pieces for Time, The Washington Post, and Politico and taken resolute points of view that follow in the footsteps of his grandfather.
PEOPLE (again) - “Out of all his siblings, Jack has been the most public and has seemingly taken the most interest in the political space. During his freshman year at Yale, he wrote a letter to the editor of The New York Times to address his late grandfather’s legacy.” “In a 2016 essay for Politico Magazine, he condemned Sen. Ted Cruz’s suggestion that if his grandfather were alive today, he would be a Republican.”
HAARETZ - “At 23, he defended his grandfather’s legacy in a forceful piece in Politico in which he responded to Senator Ted Cruz’s claim that JFK wouldn’t have felt at home in today’s Democratic Party.”
THE WEST AUSTRALIAN “These days, when he isn’t hitting the books for Harvard’s law and business schools, Schlossberg is taking after his grandfather and penning political pieces for The Washington Post, The New York Times and Time.”
IRISH CENTRAL - “He has also voiced his opinions on a number of issues. He wrote about the Syrian refugee crisis for Time magazine in 2016, and that same year, in Politico, he denounced Republican presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz's self-made comparisons to President John F. Kennedy. He also wrote an op-ed in The Washington Post, urging young people to cast their vote for Hillary Clinton in the presidential election. In 2011, he wrote a letter to The New York Timescriticizing an article written about his grandfather, President John F. Kennedy.”
LE MONDE - “Il a ainsi écrit dans les hebdomadaires Time ou New York Magazine, dans le quotidien The Washington Post ou encore sur le site Politico. Depuis juillet, il couvre la campagne électorale pour le site Web du magazine Vogue, traditionnellement prodémocrate. Son premier article, il l’a écrit en 2011, à l’âge de 18 ans, dans le New York Times.”
Translation: “He has written for the weeklies Time and New York Magazine, the Washington Post and the Politico website. Since July, he has been covering the election campaign for the website of Vogue magazine, which is traditionally pro-Democratic. He wrote his first article in 2011, at the age of 18, for the New York Times.”
There's no question he is frequently mentioned in the press, but do we have to include all that though? What's wrong with a few of the best publications and 1 cite each. Wikipedia is not meant to be a comprehensive list of everything a person has done mentioned by the press. Imagine doing that for, say, Obama or Trump. It's excessive, there needs to be balance of what to include and exclude. -- GreenC21:06, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm not quite… since Schlossberg is not a politician, at least not yet. The coverage is mostly apt as far as writers go. Especially since he has gotten lots of press for the articles themselves. I have no objections re trimming that paragraph down. Edit as you see fit citing the sources provided above, but there is absolutely no need to scrap everything like some editor did prior. That’s not constructive at all.
I did notice that some are trigger happy adding multiple issues template tags for the whole article not just the questionable sections. It’s not always PR, it may just be this editor’s hyperfixation of the season. Why am I getting a COI template in my talk page for some sloppy edits. LOL. But then again, why am I even surprised? The articles for deletion history of this page spoke volumes.
See WP:ONUS. When there's disagreement over inclusion of something, those wishing to restore it, in this case, YOU need to establish consensus. You can't just punch in something you think should be included when it's being objected. Graywalls (talk) 09:10, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The encyclopedic, promotional tone nature of the sentence I just removed is the issue here. Doing things like "he's written for big name1 (ref), big name2 (ref2), big name 3(ref3) is not encyclopedic. The edit you made isn't writing around the source, but fishing sources in order to try to support how you want it to read, because the sentence looks exactly the same. It shouldn't take so many sources for such a simple sentence. It reads basically the same aside from switched sources. The sentence should be directly supported by sources written in your own words without doing original research or doing close paraphrasing. Graywalls (talk) 19:54, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As the above (several) examples have shown, they do enumerate the publications and outlets he has written for. And of course they’re enumerating the most significant / the big names. That’s not some original research on our part since they’re literally citing such and such publications. Verbatim in fact. We can actually put it in quotations. And again, we are talking about published works by the subject who is a writer. It is absolutely insensible, dishonest even, to not include where he has written for. This is like writing a page for an actor without even a mention of a film or a show they have acted in.
I noticed that you keep on throwing/ changing rationales for removing content when another editor actually counters you with independent citations / different take that solves the issue. Makes me wonder if this is still all done in good faith or something else. Oh, well. Maxen Embry (talk) 20:43, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have not been following this too much, unless there is something I am not aware of, I don't see evidence of COI rather a question of WEIGHT ie. what to include and exclude. Since it says in the first sentence his career is a writer for various publications, it would be wrong not to list some of the major and most important publications he has been published, without going overboard on the number of cites. This sort of thing is standard for writer biographies. A listicle/CV would be listing every publication and/or or piece he has written (or nearly so). To puff their importance up, which is often a problem for someone so early in their career, every submission acceptance is a major career advancement, whereas later, after they've done more important things, those early pieces are hardly noticeable. -- GreenC14:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
