Talk:Jacksonville, Florida

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Former good article Jacksonville, Florida was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Politics section[edit]

It appears to me that this section, which has nary a citation, is full of POV and OR. I'm just placing it here to remind myself to get back to it when I have time, but of course anyone else is welcome to do so. Unschool (talk) 18:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Politics[edit]

Jacksonville, like most of North & Central Florida and the panhandle, was historically populated by Democrats, who still outnumber Republicans. In the last half of the twentieth century, large numbers of Northern Republicans retired and moved to coastal communities in South Florida. For the most part, they were not politically active. Until John Delaney was elected in 1995, the last Republican mayor in Jacksonville was elected in 1887. Until Bob Martinez was elected in 1986, the last Republican governor in Florida was elected in 1874*. (Republican Claude Kirk, formerly a Democrat, was elected in 1966 when the liberals in South Florida refused to nominate incumbent Governor Haydon Burns as the Democratic candidate and split the party. Kirk was defeated for re-election and Democrats were subsequently elected for the next 20 years.) In the years after Ronald Reagan was elected president in 1981, thousands of voters switched to the Republican Party. Additionally, thousands of Republicans moved to sunny Florida and Jacksonville from northern states or relocated from south Florida to avoid overcrowding, high prices and crime. Republican Party organizers saw Florida as a tremendous opportunity in the early 1990’s. While the Democrats were complacent, the Republicans energized their members, increased fundraising efforts and motivated fellow Republicans to get out and vote. Three of Florida’s last four governors were Republicans. The last three mayors of Jacksonville have been Republican** (Ed Austin was elected as a Democrat, but changed parties in mid-term.) In 2008, the Democrats are still trying to catch up.

Bot report : Found duplicate references ![edit]

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

  • "jplhistory" :
    • {{cite web |url=http://jaxpubliclibrary.org/lib/history.html |title=Jacksonville Public Library: A History |accessdate=2007-08-19 |format= |work= }}
    • {{cite web |url=http://jaxpubliclibrary.org/lib/history.html |title=Jacksonville Public Library: A History |accessdate=2007-08-19 |format= |work= }}

DumZiBoT (talk) 11:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:The Florida Times-Union front page.jpg[edit]

The image Image:The Florida Times-Union front page.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --09:10, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Retail[edit]

The information in the retail section sounds quite a bit like an advertisement for Town center. That is all. Mtleslie (talk) 23:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I really think we need to keep retail mentions to a bare minimum. Unschool (talk) 01:45, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Number of floors in Bank of America Tower (Jacksonville)[edit]

There was some conflicting information in Wikipedia regarding the number of floors in this building:

I've found more than one additional reference[2] verifying that the BofA Tower in Jacksonville has 42 floors. I've added one more citation[2] to the Bank of America Tower (Jacksonville) aticle, and both citations[1][2] to the Jacksonville, Florida and List of tallest buildings in Jacksonville articles.
Cheers, --Joe Sperrazza (talk) 16:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

References[edit]

  1. ^ a b "Bank of America Tower" (HTML). SkyscraperPage.com. Retrieved 7-Dec-2008.  Check date values in: |access-date= (help); External link in |publisher= (help)
  2. ^ a b c "Bank of America Tower, [[Jacksonville, Florida|Jacksonville Florida]]" (HTML). Portfolio — Current Properties. Parameter Realty Partners. Retrieved 7-Dec-2008.  Check date values in: |access-date= (help); External link in |publisher= (help); URL–wikilink conflict (help)

Photo of Franklin Roosevelt in Jacksonville[edit]

I found a photo of Roosevelt with Gov. Sholtz visiting Jacksonville ca. 1933-1934. I don't know who the third person sitting in the car is - probably Mayor of JAX at the time. [1] Gamweb (talk) 00:44, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Loodog's trimmings[edit]

I was initially inclined to revert much of what User: Loodog did to the article today, because I felt it was indicative of a failure to understand the strange and unique relationship between Baldwin, the Beaches, and Jax. But then I saw that Loodog had created Law and government in Jacksonville, Florida, placing the excised material therein. After realizing this, I reviewed what Loodog trimmed, and indeed, this had become bloated (as is much of the rest of hte article). While I would probably want a few small things back, I am more than content with the major change Loodog has done. Sometimes we can be too close to an article to see its flaws. Unschool 03:47, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Good to hear.--Loodog (talk) 04:27, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

The Lead Section[edit]

Reading the reasons why Jacksonville, Florida was taken off GA status, I find that the consensus was the lead did not adequately summarize the article. Reading the lead right now, it is mainly stressing the fact Jacksonville is a large city, and does not speaking anything about its climate, for example, off the top of my head, seeing that the climate is the first section of the body. TechOutsider (talk) 03:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider

It was actually delisted as a GA years ago, but the failure of the lead to properly summarize the article is a major problem. There's very little about history and almost nothing about climate or anything but population numbers and rankings compared to other major US cities (which were not properly sourced, by the way).--Cúchullain t/c 18:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Very valid point about the lead and the big city stuff. Some editors prefer the current version, whereas others think that there is a false impression in the current version, as indicated by this edit. Just the other day I was doing some editing in an attempt to bridge some differences on this topic. The result? Even more bloat. I would love to see a decent lead section here, but I do think that this gentle conflict needs to be resolved. For my part, I think it's perfectly okay to state that Jacksonville is the largest and most populous city in Florida, but there are those who think that this is a deceptive comment, given that it is only true because of consolidation, and given that the Jax Metro area is not in the top three in the state. Unschool 17:57, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
The problem with the metro data was that it had so sources backing it up. In some cases statements were attributed to the US Census city data, which did not include metropolitan statistics (the metro data one does include metro data but does not rank the metro areas.) At any rate the level of detail is not necessary for the article lead. Consolidation and Jacksonville's vast size and city population are part of what makes Jacksonville unique, but the rankings may belong somewhere in the article, but definitely not in the intro. Additionally, I think the phrasing is overly dismissive ("despite the fact", "only ranks"). To whit, Jacksonville's mayor and city council preside over a population and budget greater than those of Atlanta, Miami, and Washington DC., even though the metropolitan area considerably smaller.--Cúchullain t/c 15:56, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree with your analysis, specifically, the point about what responsibility the Jax city government has to deal with, and I have always wanted Jacksonville's large size and population somehow included. Which brings us again to the point of this thread: the lead. Okay, I agree that the detail that has often been included in here is excessive for the lead (and, even worse, has probably contributed to the failure to include other lead worthy information). However, the lead must also provide in the opening sentence what makes the subject most notable. To me, Jacksonville's size--both as the largest city in population in Florida, and as the largest city in area in the contiguous 48 states--is what is most notable and therefore belongs in the lead sentence. How do we reconcile this and yet avoid this contentiousness regarding caveats? Unschool 19:39, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I think the problem simply comes from the fact that "city" can mean two things. It can either mean the common interpretation of city (i.e., something that exists regardless of whatever legal status the government gives it), or it can mean the more restricted "city proper". (For example, if the five boroughs of New York City were legally considered independent cities, would the general public still consider NYC to be the U.S.'s biggest city, or would they suddenly decide that LA is now the nation's largest city?) It's disingenuous to use the second, extremely specialized term when we know readers will almost certainly read it with the first meaning in mind (unless we are very careful to show that it is only the city proper that we are referring to). I don't want to be contentious about the word "city"; perhaps there's a better way to phrase what you are trying to say? I think the enormous city proper does merit a mention.. Matt Yeager (Talk?) 20:05, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Matt, you just clarified things for me, but probably not in the way you intended. I've always sympathized with those who want to devalue Jacksonville's large population because of the fact that it came about when Jacksonville essentially merged with or annexed the rest of the county. But look at NYC! What we know as NYC was formed little more than 100 years ago by another annexation/merger between what had been New York City and surrounding communities. Granted, the analogy stops there, because modern NYC is #1 in population both in terms of the city proper and the metro area. But I strongly disagree with your apparent belief (assuming I am reading you correctly, Matt) that most people are thinking about metro area when they think rankings. I'm sure some are, but Chicago was still widely regarded at the #2 city in the country for many years after the LA metro area surpassed it in size.Unschool 20:41, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree that it's presumptive to assume our readers are thinking about the metropolitan are when thinking about population. They are clearly thinking about the city proper when we talk about the land size, otherwise New York would probably be larger, since the New York metropolitan area covers the five burroughs, all the surrounding counties in New York state and several more counties in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut. As such I think the best way to handle this is to distinguish briefly between a city proper and the metropolitan area, which the current version of the article does. Of course, as I said above Jacksonville's vast size and population is one of the most notable things about the city, and ought to be mentioned in the lede. But we must keep proportion and balance in mind.--Cúchullain t/c 14:07, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Jacksonville has many of the same type of abiguity problems that confront many consolidated cities in the U.S., like Louisville, Nashville, Indianapolis, and Denver, all but one being the largest cities in their states: Is it just one city or a metropolitan area? In the old sense, it'd be both, but in the modern sense it is not. Like the other four, Jacksnville's urban core consists of a portion within the combined city and county. Indianapolis is no different in that regard, neither is Louisville or Nashville. The city near where I live, Evansville, Indiana, isn't either. Even Evansville, should it consolidate with Vanderburgh County, would not occupy the entire metropolitan area, in fact it would be occupying the by far smallest county of the area. While Jacksonville is the largest in area, the other four also consist of counties that have large tracts of undeveloped land and independent cities within their city limits as well. It would be fair as well as accurate to consider Jacksonville in that same category. Rhatsa26X (talk) 00:17, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

[unindent] Denver is different from the others: while Louisville, Nashville, and Jacksonville have a setup similar to Unigov, with some semi-independent municipalities remaining in the county, all of Denver County is the city of Denver. It's like New York City: there's nothing in any of its five counties that isn't in the city. Nyttend (talk) 14:35, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Education[edit]

Statement from User:Nuwildcat added without citing source. Added FACT tag and notified editor of need for reference. Mgreason (talk) 18:43, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Ridicuolously Long Citations[edit]

Citations numbers 1, 6, 43, 44, 45, 46, and 70 really need abbreviating. They have caused the navigation boxes to become unattractively long. No other city of this size, even Indianapolis, has citations nearly as long as this. Rhatsa26X (talk) 23:55, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Jacksonville is NOT the largest city in Florida. Technically when you look it up in the reference books they only county people within the incorporated limits of "Miami" in the city population. Jacksonville has a big incorporated area Miami's is very small but anyone who has been to both cities can easily tell you that Miami makes Jacksonville look like a 2-bit small town. Calling Jacksonville the biggest city in Florida may be technically accurtate but its highly misleading —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.232.214 (talk) 03:29, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh shush you butthurt Miami idiot. Were the biggest and largest. Now STFU.98.82.151.242 (talk) 23:38, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Interesting dialog, two years ago. Did you mean "were" or did you mean "we're". Just asking, Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 20:02, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Monster House?[edit]

It lists Jacksonville as the shooting location for the film Monster House. As this was an animated film using Motion Capture, I would be interested to know in what way...if any, that Jacksonville was involved in the filming. WesUGAdawg (talk) 01:20, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Record Temps[edit]

I restored high and low temperatures removed from climate table by User:Mathpianist93 without discussion or justification. Mgreason (talk) 03:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

On 9 June 2010, User:Mathpianist93 removed all the data in the Climate table in this edit. I restored the data and left a message on the user's talk page. I warned the user that if he continued vandalizing articles, I would request that his account be blocked. Mgreason (talk) 18:06, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
You are being [purposefully?] deceptive here, MGreason. You restored record highs and lows. You are either a liar or someone not careful with language. 'vandalising articles': at most, I may well be doing so here, but not anywhere else. There is no need to flame out only over records. Records do not constitute averages and are thus 'the common item out' in relation to all the other items of infobox weather. thus, they should not be included in a main article anyways. the greater range of colours caused by the inclusion of records is highly distracting and utterly useless unless included with an extreme or monotone climate. I initially removed the records mainly for this reason, and come to think about it, they are/have been recorded at JAX, which is more than 10 miles away from the city centre, and thus probably does not represent the heat island build up. Notwithstanding any of the reasoning, as I switched the station for most of the climate data to Jacksonville Beach, he insisted on retaining JAX data instead of switching to Jacksonville Beach data. ---华钢琴49 (TALK) 21:11, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
since the separate template is present, I am going to initially transfer the records there and substitute that template here. it is a good way to conserve code space for large city articles, and if we do not use it, it will be vulnerable to deletion. Note that the template is collapsed by default, so don't jump and accuse me of deleting for a third time. ---华钢琴49 (TALK) 21:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
I did not look closely at Mathpianist93's change to see that he moved the data to a template, so I apologized for reverting his change. However, he does need to describe the change and reason (if it is not obvious) on the Edit Summary. Doing so would have avoided this situation. Mgreason (talk) 13:21, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
could you please answer the real question I posed here (that is, the validity of including records)? ---华钢琴49 (TALK) 16:45, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Jacksonville notability[edit]

I asked User:Cuchullain for his opinion on an issue regarding the Jacksonville, Florida article. The City-data reference used to support the "largest city in the continental US" claim now shows that a bunch of small towns have annexed huge tracts of land. The largest, Newberry-Baker, California (7988.5 sq. mi.), has a population under 16K. Would you say that Jacksonville can no longer make that claim? Mgreason (talk) 16:03, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

As I said on my talk page, in the very least we can't use city-data.com as a source for that statement anymore. If the material is accurate, it appears that Jacksonville is not the largest municipality in the continental US. The reason we didn't say it's the largest city in the entire US is that there were municipalities in Alaska that were bigger; by that standard, all the towns listed by city-data.com significantly larger. At any rate, I'd like to see some more info on this.--Cúchullain t/c 17:24, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
After several months I finally checked into this, and city-data is using a list of unincorporated places. I don't know where they're getting their information regarding the land areas, but the bottom line is these places are not cities. I've replaced the cite with one from the census and restored the claim that Jacksonville is the largest city by land area in the continental U.S.--Cúchullain t/c 19:50, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

de jure vs. de facto size[edit]

I reverted edits that introduced comments about Jacksonville's de jure and de facto size compared to other cities. The problem with talking about de facto size is how you define that, and we already cover the MSAs defined by the federal government, so I don't see why we would want to add comments about de facto size. -- Donald Albury 11:26, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Good revert, that language just added to confusion, rather than reducing it. Surely this use of terminology is highly idiosyncratic. In fact, it could be argued that the city proper population is the "de facto" one, since that's the number that's tied to the city as an actualy legal entity, rather than the much more subjective metropolitan population.--Cúchullain t/c 14:38, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Neighborhoods[edit]

After doing some preliminary reorganizing at Neighborhoods of Jacksonville, Florida, I've rewritten the Neighborhoods section here, based on the sources used there. The problem with the previous version is that it put too much emphasis on the City of Jacksonville's six planning districts, which don't have any real official status and aren't widely used. In fact, the sections conflict with the traditional divisions of the city. I've tried to reword to better summarize what the sources say.Cúchullain t/c 15:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Nova Southeastern[edit]

It's not correct to say that Nova Southeastern University is in Jacksonville. First and foremost, the cited source doesn't include it. Secondly, the school does have campuses, but they're in South Florida. What is in Jacksonville is one of Nova's various "off-campus location" they refer to as a "student education center".[2] This is a computer lab in rented office space for distance learning programs. This isn't really notable enough for the main Jacksonville article, though it could potentially be included in the education in Jacksonville article if third-party reliable sources were found.Cúchullain t/c 15:28, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Attribution[edit]

Ronnie Van Zant Memorial Park[edit]

Is is appropriate to have this paragraph in the "Parks and gardens" section? The majority of text details the band's airplane crash, and the park's location is in Clay County. Perhaps it should be included in Culture/Entertainment? Mgrē@sŏn 14:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

In order to avoid an edit war[edit]

The population of Jackson Florida in 2010 was not 500000000000000000 or however many zeros has been placed in there so far. The edit has been reversed a couple times. If you look up the facts for population in Jacksonville you find something like this 821,784 [3] for 2010. Tattoodwaitress (talk) 23:31, 18 August 2013 (UTC) I have found information regarding the population of Jacksonville in 20110 here [4] if you would like to check the numbers. Population, 2010 821,784

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Jacksonville, Florida/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 02:13, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi Mathew, I'll be glad to review this one. Initial comments to follow in the next 1-3 days. Thanks in advance for your work on it! -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:13, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

This article has a tremendous amount of quality information in it--thanks again to everyone involved in bringing it this far. I'm concerned, though, that it still falls well short of the GA criteria in some areas. This review will necessarily dwell more on weaknesses than strengths, but please don't take that as disrespect to the large amount of quality work already done here.

Here are the GA criteria that I think you should focus on in further revisions: 1b: Lead: The lead doesn't appear yet to provide a good summary of the article per WP:LEAD. Some information, e.g., "In 2010, Jacksonville was listed as a "high sufficiency" world city in the World Cities Study Group’s inventory, ranking alongside cities such as Liverpool and Las Vegas.[12] People from Jacksonville are known as "Jacksonvillians" or "Jaxons".[13]", appears in the lead but not in the body, whereas it should be the other way around--the lead should simply be a summary of the body.
1b: Layout: The article has a number of unconnected one- or two-sentence paragraphs, which is a problem under WP:LAYOUT. Organization also needs work. For example, why is the discussion of the submarine Jacksonville under "Economy" if it's based in Norfolk? The prose will need work throughout to create a logical flow. 2b: The biggest problem with the article at the moment is its lack of inline citations to reliable sources. There are many, many examples, but the problem is worst in the Demographics section, where whole paragraphs of statistics are uncited. The article will need much more thorough sourcing to reach GA, or rigorous cutting of unsourced information.
4: The article has occasional POV statements like "The city has a successful recycling program " --successful according to whom? Statements like these should be attributed in-text to reliable sources. Watch out especially for the word "notable", which crops up several times without sources to support it. "The 1980s were a quiet decade for musical talent in Jacksonville." -- according to whom? Etc.

Because these issues appear to me to need serious work, I'm closing this review for now so editors can work at leisure before resubmitting. I hope you are able to bring this one to GA soon, though. It's a high-traffic and important article that would be a terrific one to bring to higher quality; it'd also probably win involved editors a Half Million Award at least. Good luck, and just let me know if you have any questions; thanks again for your work here! -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:26, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Not actually called Cowford?[edit]

http://archive.org/stream/actsoflegis37flor#page/8/mode/2up "across St. Johns river, on the south side, at the cowford, opposite Jacksonville" --NE2 17:13, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

NE2, the Cowford or Cow Ford referred to the land on both sides of the river where ferries could cross. Much more of the activity was on the south side of the river. The original town of Jacksonville was platted on the north bank of the "Cow Ford".--Cúchullain t/c 14:26, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Porch o' geese[edit]

  • por que todo condado ou lugar dos eua tem a demografia por composição evolutiva e aqui só tem por etnicidade? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.119.114.92 (talk) 07:31, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

"why all county or place of USA has by evolutionary demography composition and ethnicity is only here?" Whatever that means. --NE2 07:52, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

"Jaxon" and "Jacksonvillian"[edit]

I've added another source for what people from the city are called; we now have two establishing that both "Jacksonvillian" and "Jaxon"/"Jaxson" are fine. We can't go telling people what "should" use, especially without specific citations (we can't expect a reader to search through 60 years of historical newspapers). If there are other specific citations we'll add them too, but for now it seems to be pretty clear that both are acceptable.--Cúchullain t/c 13:23, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Timeline of Jacksonville, Florida[edit]

What is missing from the city timeline? Please add relevant content. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 11:15, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

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Interesting and informative[edit]

I just did some copy editing on the introductory section of this article, but that does not detract from the fact that this was a good article with plenty of information: obviously some hard work by fellow Wikipedians! I now know quite a bit about Jacksonville. CPES (talk) 14:47, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

File:JXFL2011N.png changes Comment Comment[edit]

A few days ago you uploaded a new montage image of Jacksonville, FL. At the very least the picture needs to show the statue of Andrew Jackson, the person the city is named after, and it should remove the image of the Skyway, a huge mistake that is barely used in the city. Frmorrison

Frmorrison, I understand your argument and I am open to suggestions. I'm a local who has been editing on Wikipedia for years and I am deeply devoted to portraying Jacksonville as it should be. Themes of montage images should be broad. Before deciding to change the image I decided to view lots of other cities pages to see what was being portrayed. The arrangement chosen most closely resembles the current Chicago's montage. Now to speech to your two concerns. The Andrew Jackson statue does pay homage to the cities namesake, but as far as being a great work or importance to the cities development and history, it is not. Memorial Park was designed by the Olmsted Brothers and C. Adrian Pillars sculpted the statue house within it. It just feels like a more significant thing and more important to portray. As far as the Skyway goes, for better or worse the system is here. You can say it is a disaster, and at this point I would agree with you, but this is discussion of expanding it actually spending money on the thing. The point is that topics across the spectrum should be portrayed. Transportation, the arts, government, parks and commerce should be represented. Mathew105601 (talk) 16:18, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Climate charts[edit]

Why are there two climate charts? Can one be removed? Magnolia677 (talk) 13:36, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

If I remember right, the small chart to the left was introduced relatively recently. I remember there being some drama. I have no preference either way. It does seem to be a little duplicitous. I've really only noticed the lower climate chart on most cities pages. It's usually open, too. Speaking of most cities pages, the Sister cities topic usually falls under the "Sister cities" section. :P I was on a role, but there are a few examples of "Global outreach" and "International relations" Mathew105601 (talk) 00:35, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Excessive images[edit]

Soooo, there are like a lot of images on this page, to the point that I think it violates a policy which states, Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files. Any thoughts? Mathew105601 (talk) 11:10, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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