Talk:Jagdgeschwader 1 (World War II)

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Good article Jagdgeschwader 1 (World War II) has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Citation[edit]

Hi,

Some of the content and structure that was added to this stub on June 12 and 13 was taken directly from my website:

http://www.jg1.org/show.php?pg=real_jg1

Honestly, I’m very flattered that some of my work was added to Wikipedia and take it as a great complement. However, could my website please be cited? This material took some time to compile, and while not "original research", some of the sentence structure used in the wikipedia stub is mine.

Regarding my sources, the II./JG1 information I have is based firmly upon existing sources. Specifically, the Organizational and “Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen” charts found here:

http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg1.htm

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/biijg1.html

And the following excellent secondary sources:

"Defenders of the Reich" by Erich Mombeek, v. 1 - 3

"Jagdgeschwader 1 und 11" by Jochen Prien and Peter Rodeike, v. 1 – 3

Thanks, Klaiber.

Excellent work there, Klaiber. Altough I didnt add the information myself, I'd be more than happy to cite to its proper source. I will do it while I wikify the article sometime tonight. And thanks for the secondery sources - I might have to take a look at those.Abel29a 22:04, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Abel29a! Much appreciated. Let me know if there is anything that I can do to help.Klaiber 22:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Well - any help with an article on Walter Oseau would be great, as I know next to nothing about him :) Would be a shame to not have an article on him now that the JG 1 article is here. Abel29a 23:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


Apologies Klaiber[edit]

When updating the JG1 entry I meant to add a link to your site but in the process of working on all the other Luftwaffe wings entries completely forgot! Apologies again Harryurz 12:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

No worries Harryurz. I've been meaning to create and work on a Jagdgeswader 1 "Oesau" stub, but never got around to it. Both the work that you and Abel29a are putting into this is really great. I'm just glad to help. Klaiber 15:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


JG1 "Oesau" emblem[edit]

Another issue that I wanted to bring up is the JG1 "Oesau" emblem, which was introduced by Geschwaderkommadore Obstlt. Walter Oesau in September of 1943. From all of the sources and photographs I've seen, the "Flying 1" was actually a red winged '1' in a white diamond, enclosed in a black circle (not a red one). I've seen the red version quite a bit online, and I've even seen it in a few aircraft color plates and books. But I'm not sure if it's 100% historical. To add to the confusion, Eric Mombeek, in "Defenders of the Reich" actually describes it as being a red circle, in volume 2. But then goes on to show it as a black circle in every plate and photograph. Just wanted to bring it up for discussion. Klaiber 21:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I took what I found online at face value, must admit I'm not an expert at all on this unit. If somebody could find a definite source that would be nice, but if there is even cofusion in the written material it might be a bit difficult top make heads and tails off... Abel29a 00:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Here's an Interesting Link I found.

http://www.michael-reimer.com/CFS2/CFS2_Profiles/ETO_AXIS_Luftwaffe_JG1.html

This Link offers both Logos side by side. It'd seem both Emblems were applicable at some point in time. perseus71 (talk) 20:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Asessment[edit]

Long, rather detailed, with a box but no references. Worthy of a B but barely Ikokki 23:06, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:JG 1 Emblem.gif[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:JG 1 Emblem.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:37, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Table[edit]

I have put this in. It has a little more detail and names the graves of the German pilots, but I was unsure if this was overkill. Thoughts? Dapi89 (talk) 12:15, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't personally see this as an overkill. I had added an overall MIA & KIA section anyhow based on an external source. This incidentally I converted to a table as well.Perseus71 (talk) 19:03, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
I've also added a small table showing I./JG 1's reformation in 1940-1941. Hopefully it will make things a little clearer. Would it be worthwhile to add a few more to tabulate the changes made over the course of the war? Minorhistorian (talk) 22:52, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

List of bases of operation[edit]

There was a suggestion that a list of bases of operation may perhaps be listed as well. This I am told is a standard practice for USAAF related articles. I have found that holds good for Eighth Air Force. Would it be a good Idea to do so ? We certainly have the information here. The only reason I am holding back is because the list is pretty extensive with about 30 bases for I./JG 1 alone as individual groups of the wings tended to operate autonomously. Perseus71 (talk) 17:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Horizontal layout of unit badges[edit]

I've added a Wikitable to "Formation History" and "Group I./JG 1" to see if this helps tidy up the layout; it also provides space for photos of personnel and aircraft, should more of these become available in future. It probably isn't standard practice, but I feel it does help the look of the article. Thoughts? Minorhistorian (talk) 03:43, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, I have logos of the individual staffels (squadrons) those could go there. But this is kind of violating MOS:IMAGE guidelines. Perseus71 (talk) 15:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Score Tally of original I./JG 1[edit]

The original I./JG 1 under Bernhard Woldenga had run up a score in Battle of France. However this was while under administrative control of JG 27 but before being officially re-designated as III./JG 27. So would this be part of JG 1's tally and merit mention in this article ? Or would it be part of JG 27's score and mention there ? My thoughts are inclined to JG 27 as Wilhelm Balthasar actually commanded the unit. Any thoughts ? Perseus71 (talk) 15:02, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Mmm. This is difficult. I'll have a look to see if I have anything on this. Dapi89 (talk) 22:42, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

JG 1 Knight's Cross recipients[edit]

In the third column it has for example 446. Oak Leaves 11 April 1944 or the in another case the number 55 Can anybody explain what they mean please the related articles dont make it clear either. MilborneOne (talk) 14:36, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I just corrected it. Those numbers basically represent the Kill Score of that Pilot. Perseus71 (talk) 21:42, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
OK that is a lot clearer, thanks for that. MilborneOne (talk) 22:14, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
It may be clearer but it's incorrect. The 446. denotes the fact that he was the 446th recipient of the Oak Leaves. MisterBee1966 (talk) 22:41, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Unreliable sources tag[edit]

Multiple citations to jg1.org -- which appears to have been a fan page, now dead. K.e.coffman (talk) 06:59, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Excessive intricate detail[edit]

Moving here for storage as overly detailed and potentially not of interest to the general public:

Unit emblem and color schemes

When JG 1 was initially formed as I./JG 1, its emblem was designed by Major Woldenga as a German Crusader's cross on which a flight of three Bf 109s was transposed.[1][2]

Fw 190 displaying the Tatzelwurm

When I./JG 1 was incorporated into JG 27, I./JG 1's original emblem became that of III./JG 27. When JG 1 was reformed in 1940, II./JG 1's emblem was the Tatzelwurm, a mythical Norse serpent with origins with JG 3.[3][1][2]

I./JG 1 was the only group that displayed individual aircraft numerals on the engine cowling until it was re-designated III./JG 27. Each of the staffeln also had its own emblems. For example, 2./JG 1 had a sword slicing Chamberlain's umbrella in two.[4]

The badge of 9./JG 1 depicted a flintlock pistol on a heart surrounded by the words, (translated from German) "Who Shoots first gets more out of life". After his appointment as Geschwaderkommodore Oberstlt. Walter Oesau introduced a new emblem on 12 November 1943 and used by all of JG 1; a red–winged ‘1’ inside a white diamond surrounded by a black circle. There seem to have been some disputes over emblem details, with one version enclosing the white diamond with a red circle instead of a black one.[3][5][6]

In spring 1943 I./JG 1 briefly introduced high-visibility geometric patterns of alternating black and white horizontal stripes on the engine cowling, with other units of JG 1 (formerly IV./JG 1) using checkerboard patterns on the cowling. I./JG 1 was unique in using a variation of a more colorful identification scheme of checkerboard black-and-white-striped engine cowlings. The checkerboards were divided into black-white, black-red and black-yellow for the 1., 2. and 3. Staffeln respectively.[5][7]

Following the general adoption of aft coloured fuselage bands identification by all Jagdgeschwaders, I./JG 1 utilised black and white bands. I./JG 1 started painting red aft fuselage bands to distinguish from JG 11 and the Sturmstaffel aircraft. Use of these colored fuselage bands was generally abandoned by mid-1944. At one point, a color scheme of painting the tail rudder in white was trialled for units dedicated to Defence of Reich duties.[5][7]

References

  1. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference Weal.2001.9 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference Weal.2003.6 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  3. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference II.Jagdgeschwader1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  4. ^ Weal (2003) p. 123.
  5. ^ a b c Cite error: The named reference Michaelreimer01 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  6. ^ Weal (1996) p. 94.
  7. ^ a b Weal (1996) p. 52-53.

K.e.coffman (talk) 05:09, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Recent edit[edit]

Please justify these restorations to July diff on the Talk page -- the article has been stable and has been edited by others. The issues that were noted in the maintenance tags that the edit removed have not been addressed either. K.e.coffman (talk) 20:10, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

I don't need to justify it. You need to justify the tags. Dapi89 (talk)
@Dapi89: Please see threads above: "Unreliable sources tag" & "Excessive intricate detail".
In addition to the fan page listed above, there are about 15 citations to Schuelke which is http://www.ordersofbattle.darkscape.net/site/sturmvogel/FGnorm.html -- a most likely non RS link. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:58, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
The link doesn't work anyway.
Leave it with me. This article can be covered so easily by published sources because it's one of the best known and covered units in the Luftwaffe. Dapi89 (talk) 18:18, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Does the editor acknowledge the sourcing and the prose to be problematic? K.e.coffman (talk) 19:10, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Prose not really, some of the sourcing (a handful of citations). I don't like the use of Americanisms like "kill". The German term was Luftsieg. I'll comb through the article later. Dapi89 (talk) 13:14, 6 January 2017 (UTC)