Talk:Jersey Dutch

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject New Jersey (Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is part of WikiProject New Jersey, an effort to create, expand, and improve New Jersey–related articles to Wikipedia feature-quality standard. Please join in the discussion.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject Languages (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Languages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of standardized, informative and easy-to-use resources about languages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.


You did well to remove that comment, since Jersey Dutch was NOT modern Dutch and the term Duits was used to describe both Dutch and Germans in it (leg duits = Jersey Dutch, Hoog Duits = German), the word "Hess" (Hessian) also meant German, but in a negative manner (ferdoomde Hess!). So, Neger Duits DID mean "Black" or "Negro Dutch." The article should also mention that Jerseduits was spoken in northern Essex county (north Newark, Belleville, Nutley, Bloomfield at least). (talk) 23:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)Jerseduitser

I removed the following:

**NOTE: "It was sometimes called Neger Duits - "Negro Dutch" - when spoken by mixed race people."
'Neger Duits' Means Negro German. NOT Negro Dutch. That would be Neger Nederlands/Hollands. Duits is Dutch for German.

Duits means in German in modern Dutch, but as recently as WWII, it was a bit more ambiguous in usage, refering to both at times. This usage is still present in the Dutch national anthem. The reason the Pennsylvania Dutch are called Dutch, even though they have nothing to do with Holland, is because until the 19th century the English word Dutch, the Dutch word Duits, and the German word Deutsch still referred to Germanic peoples from northern contenental Europe without special national reference. There is some reference to this shift in meaning at Dietsch. --Diderot 16:11, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

The Dutch national anthem actually refers to the Duits/German blood in the sense that Orange-Nassau is originally German. Mallerd 21:10, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Today, perhaps, but not when it was written. Rp (talk) 15:41, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

It is not certain that "Duitse bloed" in the anthem, means German. For in earlier days it was "dietsche bloed,"meaning that Willem van Oranje, was "one of the people." —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:46, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

The German nativity of William of Orange was a special case. He inherited this title from his uncle Rene of Chalon, who belonged to the Dutch Nassaus. Ad43 (talk) 09:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Pennsylvania Dutch[edit]

Could someone elaborate the relationship between Jersey Dutch and Pennsylvania Dutch? Did they arise as two different dialects or were they one language divided by a river? (talk) 17:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

As the article states, Pennsylvania Dutch is of german origin. Jersey Dutch is from Dutch. Ad43 (talk) 09:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm, maybe I should ask a different question. The new American colonies were mostly English-speaking, with a small minority of settlers from Holland still holding on to the Dutch language. Then comes a wave of immigrants from the Palatine region in western Germany - about as far away from Holland as New Jersey is from Pennsylvania, at a time when Dutch vs. German was much less differentiated. So... what happened? Did the German and Dutch communities mix freely, mix partially, or remain entirely separate? Did the Dutch stay only in New Jersey while all the Germans moved on to Pennsylvania, or was there substantial overlap? (talk) 17:34, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
It's somewhat off the top of my head, but I guess the latter. I think, different from the English, colonists, settlers and immigrants like the Dutch and Germans stuck much to their own territories and their own customs and/or religious communities. They were far less in number and had no outspoken imperialist objectives in these new areas. Ad43 (talk) 23:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The Pennsylvania Dutch didn't really "move on" to Pennsylvania because most of them didn't live in New Jersey in the first place. They immigrated through Philadelphia for the most part. I'm sure there was probably trickles of movement back and forth, as there was a whole lot of mixing going on in colonial America in general, but for the most part the Jersey Dutch and the Pennsylvania Dutch were seperate communities just as much as they both respectively were from the mainstream English-speaking society. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:34, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Based on Zeelandic?[edit]

The article claims a Zeelandic or even e West Flemish basis for this dialect. The Prodigal Son sample seems to point in the direction of Hollandic instead: h- is present, and so are diphthongs ij and ui. All these sounds are absent from Zeelandic and West Flemish, as they are from Zeelandic-based creole languages in the Caribbean. Moreover, West Flemish speakers had little opportunity to settle in or around New Amsterdam in the 17th century, since they lived in the Spanish Netherlands, not in the Dutch Republic which undertook the colonisation. So where does this statement come from? Steinbach (talk) 18:33, 15 May 2014 (UTC)