Talk:John Douglas, 9th Marquess of Queensberry

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Conversion[edit]

If it's mentioned that he's an atheist shouldn't also his deathbed conversion to Catholicism also be mentioned? JorgeK — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.53.46.144 (talk) 22:30, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Any alleged conversion to Rome would be questionable - he was cremated and his ashes buried in the family burial ground at Kinmount, as stated in the Complete Peerage and Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, which mention no conversion. In his lifetime the Catholic Church was against cremation, enshrining rules against it in Canon Law in 1917. (I have added the details to this article, which initially stated though he wrote the poem beginning "When I am dead cremate me" he was buried in Scotland, as if he had not actually been cremated.) No other biography I have seen mention a deathbed conversion, although his mother and a brother did convert to Catholicism in the 1860s.Cloptonson (talk) 13:07, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Untitled[edit]

Hmmm... before you decide he's the ninth and not the eighth you should look into the discrepancies in Queensberry (not Queensbury) enumeration. (Specificallly , you are counting James Douglas, styled Earl of Drumlanrig as the third Marquess, but he, as an idiot, never assumed such titles.) Would seem to warrant at least a footnote. --- Someone else 10:27 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

You have the advantage on me there. But the current Marquess is listed as the 12th. Mintguy

Yes, on the lists that include the "idiot"... <G> -- Someone else 10:53 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Which includes Burke's.Mintguy
I'm not saying NOT to include him, I'm suggesting that you ought to let people know that the numbers now assigned differed from those they actually used during their lives, at least during the period from 1711 (when James Douglas, who had killed ,spitted and roasted a cookboy before the fire in 1707 was deemed not to be Marquess material) to 1812 decision of the House of Lords regarding the novodamus the second Marquess had obtained in oder to bypass the "Cannibalistic idiot' in the line of succeccsion, but in which he mentioned the Dukedom of Queensberry and failed to mention the Marquessate of Queensberry. So from III marquess to the VII, they were using different numbers than listed here. -- Someone else 11:13 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Ok I'm just trying to disambiguate all these numerous Dukes and Earls etc.. If you have the detailed information, go ahead and add it. Mintguy
Don't let me stop you, I'm just trying to point out how they're spelled and that the numbers aren't always unambiguous. I'll leave you alone, and I can add explanatory notes to the ones that were known by different numbers once you're done. -- Someone else 11:23 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Fair enough. I think you can understand my mistake re:Queensberry/Queensbury, as Queensbury is more familiar as a place name and doing a google seach shows about 45% of sites (including many with genealogies) say Marquess of Queensbury. I also note that you didn't change Lord Alfred Douglas from Queensbury. I had no knowledge of the "idiot" Mintguy

You're right. I erred in not correcting the errors in Alfred Douglas. I am fatally flawed - nay, morally repugnant. -- Someone else 11:37 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Remark about Lord Alfred Douglas[edit]

Douglas' efforts to end their relationship

Is this accurate??? I think no but have no sufficient references to delete this sentence. Someone should try to ascertain it.

77.197.248.57 (talk) 01:35, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

His second wife had their marriage annulled on the grounds of non-consummation of the marriage because of the malformation of his genitals. So were the childre by his first marriage really his? PatGallacher (talk) 23:01, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Incomplete[edit]

The biography - and this article - is incomplete. There is nothing on his bizarre marriages, his life after the Wilde case and his eventual death. I am not qualified to complete it myself nor have the resources to do so but if any Wiki historian is interested, they should be encouraged to do so in order to complete the biography of this most bizarre man. Hubertgrove (talk) 04:34, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Never Honoured[edit]

The introductory line gives him a post-nominal GCVO (Knight Grand Cross Royal Victorian Order). There is no evidence from his contemporary reference books (Burke's, etc) he received any decorations or orders of knighthood. As the Royal Victorian Order, founded 1896, was in the personal gift of his lifelong sovereign, it is highly doubtful Queen Victoria would have found occasion to honour him. I am deleting these spurious initials.Cloptonson (talk) 12:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Re Dispute With Oscar Wilde[edit]

I question the correctness in alleging Queensberry 'publicly called' Wilde a "posing somdomite"(sic), when the epiphet was communicated in the form of the calling card he left at Wilde's club with the writing on it. Were there witnesses to the act? Had he deliberately staged it with viewers to back him up? The writing is disputed for its unclarity, others rendering it "posing as somdomite". I am correcting the month to February, that being when the card was actually delivered.Cloptonson (talk) 14:13, 27 May 2013 (UTC)