Talk:John Wark

John Wark is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

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June 30, 2009	Featured article candidate	Promoted

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Under construction tag[edit]

User:The Rambling Man and I are pushing this article to FA status. I'll take down the tag when we've finished doing major revamp work. Please do feel free to help with adding citations, fixing errors, challenging unsourced comments, etc.

A to-do list will appear below in due course. --Dweller (talk) 10:06, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To-do list[edit]

Add content, especially off-the-pitch stuff
Mark all uncited material with {{cn}} tags
Images/licenses/captions/positioning
Replace all of the citation requests with citations, or amend/delete the text
Insert some more personal qualities type quotes
Format all footnotes per WP:FOOTNOTE
Copyedit whole article
Gain third party copyedit

--Dweller (talk) 15:52, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Escape to Victory[edit]

It'd be nice to add at least something about the nature of his role and the character, e.g. non-speaking/speaking, minor character, some explanation of who the character is supposed to be etc. --Dweller (talk) 11:44, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Acutally, if memory serves he had a minor speaking part but his voice was dubbed over with a "posh" Edinburgh accent... need to find a citation for that, mind you! The Rambling Man (talk) 11:46, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Escape to Victory section is a bit misleading. The cast had famous multinational footballers, mostly retired, and not-so-famous active Ipswich Town footballers. Wark was in the latter group, so mentioning him in the same sentence as Pele and Bobby Moore rather than, say, Kevin O'Callaghan, makes his appearance seem more impressive than was the case. jnestorius^(talk) 22:30, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the mention is intended to confer some kind of fame on Wark, rather just a nod that he was a bit-part in a successful movie with Stallone/Caine etc.. The Rambling Man (talk) 23:03, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure an entire subsection amounts to "just a nod". In any case, I have recast the sentence lest anyone gain an inflated impression. The Times reference doesn't state there were multiple Ipswich players, but then it doesn't mention Bobby Moore, Michael Caine, or Max von Sydow either. jnestorius^(talk) 10:20, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well fair enough. This ref, albeit from a tabloid, mentions Warkie being there with Osman and Beats. And IMDB includes Sivell and O'Callaghan, but not Beattie. So it's probably true to say Wark wasn't the only ITFC player but there's nothing reliable there right now. I'll need to dig up some RS on movies for this! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:21, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Useful articles from RS[edit]

--Dweller (talk) 13:56, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[5] for us subscribers... The Rambling Man (talk) 16:35, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(Hopefully) useful information[edit]

I found a source that suggests Wark joined from Drumchapel Amateurs (which I presume is this team).[6]

The source also provides a brief overview of his career and mentions things like him reverting to centre-half, due to an injury crisis. Hope it's some help. I'd love to help more with this article, but am too busy IRL at the moment.

Best of luck, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:04, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Revamp process[edit]

I realise it's a bit late to say this, but for the benefit of the readers of this encyclopedia, I suppose you wouldn't consider revamping the article in userspace, and adding each paragraph/section once it's approaching ready, rather than leaving the whole article in such a completely un-reader-friendly state for days (hopefully only days) on end? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 19:45, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wikilinking[edit]

What do people think of the link in the following:

"He played enough matches at the end of his first season to earn himself a Football League championship winner's medal."

Cheers, --Dweller (talk) 13:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well firstly I think the link you mean is 1983–84 in English football. I think The Football League 1983–84 is probably a more appropriate link, but then again the two pages are remarkably similar (which brings up a whole different issue!). Rambo's Revenge (talk) 14:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've not edited the sentence yet! I was wondering if a link to FL champions was better, or possibly to an article about the medal. --Dweller (talk) 14:20, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What's next?[edit]

To-do:

Cite each of the honours individually
All honours appear in the "stats" reference from his book, here ref [1]. Is that sufficient? The Rambling Man (talk) 16:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done The Rambling Man (talk) 17:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Check article for hidden messages
Done only one I found I think I resolved. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:03, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Check all tags have been dealt with
Done The Rambling Man (talk) 17:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Check for overlinking vs unlinked jargon
Looks good to me - I suggest this will be covered in the Fresh eyes copyedit. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:04, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Run for MOSNUM, DASH etc
I think it's all good but if we could run an automated tool then that'd be good... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:04, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Check photos/captions/layouts
Done Looks good to me The Rambling Man (talk) 18:03, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Check referencing formats
Done The Rambling Man (talk) 17:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Check all links work with the tool
No dabs as of The Rambling Man (talk) 17:58, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Can't see (quickly) how the link checking tool works... ideas?
It seems to be having some issues (tried just now) and was incorrectly marked some as dead. I checked all those out, one was dead so I replaced it, the rest were fine. On referencing there are consistency issues. For example "20 April, 2001" and "2009-05-27" in ref 35, all references should use the same style and be consistent. I believe that "20 April 2001" (no comma) is the correct format, so there are quite a few to change. If you want help, I know Gary King ran a script to do these conversions for me once, so he might be willing to assist. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 08:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to make all date references ISO format... is there a guidance on whether accessdates should be ISO while publication dates aren't? The Rambling Man (talk) 11:17, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Found it on WP:MOSNUM -
Dates in article body text should all have the same format.

Dates in article references should all have the same format.

So I guess right now we're okay, body text dates are day month year and reference dates are yyyy-mm-dd... The Rambling Man (talk) 12:29, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

These requirements apply to dates in general prose and reference citations, but not to dates in quotations or titles.

Fresh eyes copyedit
FAC

Anything I've missed? Add it. --Dweller (talk) 14:59, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If we wanted to be super sure, we could get it peer reviewed? The Rambling Man (talk) 15:06, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I have yet to finish his last spell at Ipswich - and possibly find some nuggets for the "personal" side of things... The Rambling Man (talk) 17:01, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Discipline[edit]

I think we could add something in personality/playing style about his disciplinary record, if we can find anything... --Dweller (talk) 11:10, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure of any RS with his disciplinary record. From memory, it was unusual to see him yellow, if at all red-carded. But I don't think he was a Lineker. So I think it's unremarkable... The Rambling Man (talk) 16:47, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Links in quotes[edit]

Isn't there some rule somewhere that says you can't wikilink in quotes? My links keep getting removed so shouldn't these? Spiderone 19:23, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What you are refering to is the "Linking" section in MOSQUOTE. "Unless there is an overriding reason to do so, Wikipedia avoids linking from within quotes, which may clutter the quotation, violate the principle of leaving quotations unchanged, and mislead or confuse the reader." Looking at this article I think there is an overiding reason to link names to Giles, Bremner and Stein because it reduces ambiguity about who these people are. The same could be said of the boot room link. With respect to links in quotes like blood pressure, alcohol, penalty and referee I am indifferent to them being linked. In my opinion none of them clutter the quotation or mislead or confuse the reader. However they are not essential to the article. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Use of deprecated sources[edit]

Flagged this article at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Correct_action_when_someone_persistently_adds_back_a_deprecated_source? - David Gerard (talk) 13:57, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As you know, the Scottish Sun is not deprecated to the extent you claim in your edit summaries. Please desist from making fake claims. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 14:02, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't specifically relate to Wark, but this edit is comical. The user removes a reference citing the "deprecated" Scottish Sun, and replaces it with one from the Daily Record. They're basically the same type of newspaper - "red-top" tabloids focused on the greater Glasgow (read: Rangers and Celtic) market. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 14:15, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The editor in question is using false edit summaries and misrepresenting the comments at WP:DEPS. And replacing the Sun for the Daily Record is just about the single silliest "replacement" I have ever seen here. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 14:19, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Then remove the claim entirely - David Gerard (talk) 14:30, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would advocate applying some level of sense here, which appears to be missing here. For instance, DEPS says "The primary exception to deprecation is that deprecated sources can normally be cited as a primary source when the source itself is the subject of discussion", i.e. deprecated sources can be used. Not "(should never be used for anything)" per the false edit summary claims. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 14:35, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This could be useful to provide back-up to some of the stuff reported in the Scottish Sun. Harrias ^talk 14:43, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]