Talk:Judo

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Former good article nominee Judo was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
December 28, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed
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I don't know about a run-on sentence, this is a marathon.[edit]

Further, it evolved to greatly emphasize the ground aspect of judo, Judo Newaza, while disassociating itself with karate (see Gichin Funakoshi's friendship with Jigoro Kano) and various other forms of striking or attacking a vital point in favor of takedowns from both Judo and later from universal grappling moves such as double legs and virtually any form of takedown to get to the judo-newaza technique variations outlined by the Gracie family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.108.158.211 (talk) 10:46, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Competition Scoring Confusing[edit]

So it's mentioned that an ippon is 100pts, while a waza-ari is 10pts, but two waza-ari add up to an ippon? Someone should clarify this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.12.184.6 (talk) 15:41, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

It appears to be confusion resulting from the way the scores are displayed, i.e. 011 = 0 ippons, 1 waza-ari, 1 yuko. I have removed the erroneous information.Catfish Jim and the soapdish 18:31, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

The duration of pins that is mentioned to score ippon, waza-ari or yuko clashes with the articles for these scores: this article mentions 20 seconds for ippon, 15 seconds for waza-ari and 10 seconds for yuko whereas, the individual articles for these scores respectively mention 25 seconds, 20 seconds, and 15 seconds — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheCois (talkcontribs) 20:31, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

'See also' section[edit]

User:Catfish_Jim_and_the_soapdish: Some of the links that you removed from the 'See also' section are already incorporated in the article, so removing them here makes sense (the Olympics and World Championships, for example). Judo in Canada and Judo in the United Kingdom are not, however, and until such time there is a section of the article that addresses Judo in specific countries, these links should remain in the 'See also' section.CanadianJudoka (talk) 18:25, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

(Edit conflict... I hate when that happens) I've removed some of the links in this section as they were unnecessary. The Canon of Judo is one of my favorite judo books, but it doesn't need a link here. Judo in the United Kingdom and Judo in Canada are undoubtedly interesting subjects, but as per the MOS, we need to use common sense when assessing what to link to... there are hundreds of countries in which judo is practiced and we cannot include them all, nor is it necessary to for the sake of this article. The other removed subjects are, I believe, covered sufficiently in the main body of text. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 18:31, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
I agree that it wouldn't be reasonable to list all of the countries where Judo is practised there, but I saw it as a temporary measure that is acceptable for the moment because there are only three articles on Judo in specific countries at the moment (these two and on on Judo in India). The main purpose of putting them there was to make editors and readers who are interested in Judo aware of the articles' existence. Maybe what needs to be done is to create an article (maybe a list) titled 'Judo by country' that can be linked in the 'See also' section here and then serve as directory of this type of article, prefaced with a discussion of the diffusion of Judo outside of Japan. I will be working on the 'Judo in Canada' article over the next few months when time permits, and I hope that it will be used as a model for similar articles. I would particularly like to see articles on Judo in France, Russia, Brazil, the United States, and of course Japan. CanadianJudoka (talk) 18:43, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Okay, excellent idea! Judo by country Catfish Jim and the soapdish 18:57, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for creating the list. I think that it would be a good idea to start a WikiProject for Judo sometime down the road to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Judo; articles on Judo by country alone could keep a group of people busy for a while. Let me know if you'd be interested in participating. CanadianJudoka (talk) 20:08, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Catfish - I like your changes to my arm bar section. Yep, that's me! An America. ;) Tanya ((♫)) 23:12, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Agree I'll start Judo in Brazil. — Jdcollins13 (talk) 18:35, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Great, thanks! CanadianJudoka (talk) 18:42, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

sensei[edit]

Quote: A judo teacher is called sensei (先生?).[65] The word sensei comes from sen or saki (before) and sei (life) – i.e. one who has preceded you. Unquote

When I studied Chinese at university, my lecturer from Beijing said that 先生 xiansheng means 'first born'. Perhaps these are not the correct characters for sensei in Japanese. 123.26.60.240 (talk) 22:55, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Japanese characters[edit]

There are so many Japanese characters in the article it's hard to read. Since most of the words transcribed are links to the respective articles, anyone who should want to compare the transcription with the original can do so in those articles. Is it OK if I remove all Japanese characters from here, except for the ones for judo? The Other Saluton (talk) 21:02, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

I would personally object to that and don't think it's necessary. However, if this was debated properly and there was consensus for such a move, I wouldn't stand in its way. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 21:55, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
What do you mean by saying "debated properly"? The Other Saluton (talk) 16:21, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Actually, just go ahead and do it... if anyone else objects to them being removed it will be easily revertable. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 15:32, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Famous practitioners[edit]

This list needs to be limited by some means otherwise it runs the risk of being unpalatable. I suggest it is limited entirely to people who are notable for their judo (perhaps amongst other areas of notability) rather than notable people who also do judo. Theodore Roosevelt certainly did practice judo a few times but he is not famous for it. We don't want to get to get into a situation where we are including the likes of Madonna (has been seen training in judo) at the expense of bona-fide practitioners.

For the sake of brevity I suggest that we should include on the basis of:

  • are a winner of a gold medal at the World Championships
  • are a winner of a gold medal at the Olympics (in Judo)
  • made a substantial contribution to the development of the art or sport.

Comments? Catfish Jim and the soapdish 12:36, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

It may also be a good idea to add:

also see: List of Judo practitioners

To allow for an expanded list. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 12:43, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

In fact that is exactly what the article for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu does, dispensing with any list in the infobox... done as per WP:BB Catfish Jim and the soapdish 20:12, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
I agree with you. when I removed a red link yesterday, I thought there were too many names and clean up was needed. Oda Mari (talk) 10:07, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
A number of the names I started to clear before removing the list altogether were MMA competitors who train in judo. Is there any value in creating a list relating to this, or should they be included in List_of_judoka#Others or List of celebrity judoka Catfish Jim and the soapdish 10:25, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

NOBODY KNOWS THAT JUDO-DO IS NOT JUDO ?[edit]

  • Judo et Judo-Do: haute ecole du combat par Hubert Klinger-Klingerstorff 1952
  • Judo & Judo-do par Hubert Klinger-Klingerstorff 1953
  • Teach Yourself Judo & Judo-Do par Hubert Klinger-Klingerstorff 1953
  • Erwartungshorizont des Judo-Do: eine Technik-Checkliste par Dennis Arnold
  • Les racines du judo français: histoire d'une culture sportive par Michel Brousse
  • Cynarski Wojciech J., Sztuki walki budō w kulturze Zachodu, Wyd. WSP, Rzeszów 2000. (ISBN 83-7262-072-2)
  • Cynarski Wojciech J., Sztuki walki – Idō i Idōkan, SIP, Rzeszów 2009. (ISBN 978-83-61312-85-7)
  • Cynarski Wojciech J., Martial Arts and Combat Sports – Humanistic Outlook, Rzeszów University Press, Rzeszów 2009. 172 p. ISBN 978-83-7338-439-2
  • World of sports indoor, Volume 2 par Anil Taneja, ISBN 9788178357652.

Aikikai45 (talk) 17:30, 31 August 2015 (UTC) And now it is Moved excess bibliography entries to "further reading"--Aikikai45 (talk) 21:42, 1 September 2015 (UTC) despite extensive media coverage in the early year an example Judo do is no more

61,924 bytes / Split Judo & Judo do[edit]

Wikipedia:Splitting The two main reasons for splitting material out from an article are size and content relevance. If either the whole article, or the specific material within one section becomes too large, or if the material is seen to be inappropriate for the article due to being out of scope, then a split may be considered or proposed. Consideration must be given to size, notability and potential neutrality issues before proposing or carrying out a split. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aikikai45 (talkcontribs) 22:38, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

If you want a separate article about Judo do, make a draft at Draft:Judo do for review. JohnCD (talk) 22:41, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
I've already write an article Judo do you delete it 3 times and restored it 2 times then you put a redirect link to Judo#Related arts and derivatives [1] Protected "Judo do": Addition of unsourced or poorly sourced content BUT YOUR unsourced or poorly sourced content is an excess bibliography entries for others. You just bite me instead of working for wikipedia. I think it would have been more helpful for you to have corrected the sentence that you think is not correct or add {{Accuracy}} or {{Disputed}} but you prefer deleting all article for (G3: Blatant hoax). You do wrong. Now restore and repair. --Aikikai45 (talk) 22:50, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
If this is notable enough to be included as a derivative of Judo in the main Judo article, it needs to be notable as a martial art and should be able to stand on its own as a Wikipedia article. My take is that it should be allowed to be tested at AFD.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Catfish Jim and the soapdish (talkcontribs) 07:32, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I Agree with @Catfish Jim and the soapdish: Also tested at AFD List of Judo-do techniques Disagree Merged List of judo techniques— Preceding unsigned comment added by Aikikai45 (talkcontribs) 08:26, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
  • I believe that it'd be far better for the editor to work on this at AfC. Right now he's caught the attention of multiple editors because of their disruptive editing and there are concerns from many editors about whether or not the sources that were in the article actively backed up the claims. Like it or not, an editor's activity has a pretty big impact on how things are received at AfD and if people perceive an editor to be disruptive, they're more likely to be more harsh on an article. If the article is deleted at AfD based on the current sourcing (which was fairly weak, as it had only 1-2 usable sources and a host of self-published sources) then that would make it very, very difficult for it to be overturned in the future. For the article's sake, I think that it'd be more merciful for this to be worked on at AfC. If they wanted to ask someone to take a look at the article so it didn't have to wait as long at AfC, I have no issue with that. However right now I think that going to AfD would just be article suicide at this point. If anyone here wants to work on the article (@Catfish Jim and the soapdish:) then I have no problem restoring the draft. The only reason it was deleted was because the article creator had requested that it be deleted because they wanted to keep trying to disruptively re-add the article to the mainspace. Tokyogirl79 (。◕‿◕。) 10:26, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I've done as much as I think it merits. It strikes me as one of the many judo based arts that appeared in the west in the mid-20th century but had no lasting or significant impact. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 13:38, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I must say you two are very kind (with honourable mention to the other editors involved).Peter Rehse (talk) 13:49, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

I have some concerns about the book World of Sport Indoor as a reliable source. I've had a look at the publisher, Kalpaz's information for authors page: For Authors It really doesn't inspire confidence in terms of the level of editorial oversight they might apply to their publications. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 07:55, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Well its clearly self published but I suspect that will be the least of the issues.Peter Rehse (talk) 09:27, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
I've figured out why this book was bothering me. I deleted a reference to it in the judo article a few years back because the chapter on Judo entirely reproduced the Wikipedia Judo article as it was in late 2008. We can safely call this an unreliable and unusable reference. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 10:15, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

I have invited Aikikai45, when they come off their short block, to improve Draft:Judo do as best they can, with a view to submitting it to AfD to get a community decision on the notability question. I have also posted a message at WT:WikiProject Martial Arts#Judo do to see if anyone there can chip in. JohnCD (talk) 09:32, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Incorporating Roy Moore?[edit]

The following page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore_(wrestler) is flagged as an orphan. Is this article the most appropriate location for a link to this page to be brought in, given that that article indicates he suggeted the usage of weight classes in Judo? I've added a comment indicating what I mean, but I would prefer a second opinion on this one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BLu (talkcontribs) 15:56, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately that article is misleading and is not really supported by the cited reference. Weight divisions had been suggested decades before Moore was involved and it's highly unlikely that Moore had any influence whatsoever over the decision to implement them. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 18:30, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
So that's a no, then... Can't say I'm too surprised. I've removed the comment to keep things clean, thanks for the reply! --BLu (talk) 19:03, 19 October 2016 (UTC)