Talk:Junior Eurovision Song Contest

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Good article Junior Eurovision Song Contest has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
April 20, 2009 Good article nominee Listed

Azerbaijan withdrawal[edit]

Surely the diagram of countries that have entered needs to be changed, since Azerbaijan withdrew after the deadline. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisethebest (talkcontribs) 00:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

You're right. I asked a few days ago on Wikipedia:WikiProject Eurovision but no-one seems to know how to do it. Bosnia & Herzegovina needs to be changed as well and Israel should be reverted back to yellow because I don't think the purple key should be used any longer as there are so many countries that have planned to enter in the past but the information available on whether or not these broadcasters had serious plans to enter remain sketchy.--gottago (talk) 16:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Junior Eurovision Song Contest/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hey everyone. I'm Nikkimaria, and I'll be reviewing this article for possible GA status. Feel free to add any questions, concerns or comments you may have to my talk page. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 01:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Symbol wait.svg On hold: this article is awaiting improvements before it is passed or failed. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Writing and formatting[edit]

  • The "Breakdown of contests" section needs a different name. As it mostly shows winners as opposed to overall scores/standings, the section heading should reflect this. ✔ Changed it to "Winning entries". Is this an appropriate title? I struggled a bit on this one!
Sounds fine to me.
  • Some template issues in the table "Countries making its windrawn" (as well as a title typo) ✔
  • Watch for typos in general: I noticed a few (like "emergered" for "emerged" and "doctumentary" for "documentary" in history) ✔
Pretty good, but I notice that there is now a mix of American and British English in the article (for example, "totaled" is American while "favourite" is British). Consistency is preferred throughout the article per WP:ENGVAR (and, given the Euro-centricity of the subject, I would suggest British English). ✔ After copying the whole article into a word processor with a UK dictionary, the only other one I could see was "modeled" which has now been changed.
  • Make sure that quoted passages are identical to the source that they were taken from (barring ellipses or other special circumstances). I noticed that the quote from EBU in the first paragraph of "Format" introduced a grammatical error not present in the source. ✔
  • Per WP:MOS, times should be formatted hour:minute as opposed to hourminute (ex. 8:30 instead of 830) ✔
  • Check grammar in "Entry restrictions". Could you specify on this one because I wasn't sure on what needed changing, though a semi-colon has been changed into a comma.
  • "Performers must be a national" - "national" needs to be plural to agree with "performers" ✔
  • "The rule stating that performers also must not have previously released music commercially was active from 2003 to 2006 and was dropped in 2007 thus allowing already experienced singers and bands in the competition" - sentence is too long to not have a break in speech (a comma or something). There are a couple other sentences in the article that have this issue too. ✔ I've gone through and have broken up 2 or 3 other sentenses as well.
  • Consider linking the term "national" to some article about citizenship or immigration status for clarity. ✔ I think I've linked to the correct articles but I had difficulties trying to work out which articles would be most appropriate to link it to.
The first link is great, but the second doesn't quite fit. I'm not absolutely sure what they're talking about, but something like permanent residency would be closer. ✔
  • Check consistency of the term "children-performers" versus "child-performers" or simply "performers" throughout the article. ✔ The term "performers" is now used throughout the article.
  • In "Participation", clarify the sentence "Seven countries have been represented in every contest" to differentiate between "At least seven have participated each year" versus "Seven have competed every year", as the current wording is unclear. ✔

Accuracy and verifiability[edit]

  • Should cite "Between 2003 and 2005 viewers had around 10 minutes to vote after all the songs had been performed" ✔
  • Reference for program times and point system? ✔ The only ref I could find about the programme time was the 2006 rules (though it's in GMT). Would this be enough? I know for a fact all 6 contests have been on between 20:15 and 22:30 but I just cannot find the proof!
Sorry, that could only be used as a reference for 2006. If you can't find the proof, you can't state it as a fact.
  • Reference "the 2006 contest was a notable exception" ✔
  • Reference decline of West + rise of East I've removed this sentense as it's been very, very difficult to find a reference for it. Also would it be classed as original research?
It wouldn't be OR if it had a source, but since it doesn't, technically yes.
  • Reference for details in tables ✔
  • Should use English sources wherever possible. Non-English sources should have their language noted (some of the references do this, but other don't) ✔
  • Reference 23 has a broken link ✔ Replaced
  • YouTube videos that are not from an official channel belonging to a reliable source do not meet WP:RS - therefore, refs 27, 28, 29, 30 are not valid. Other sources should be found or the unsourced information should be removed. ✔
  • Some inconsistencies in the refs: some use "ESCToday" while others use "ESC Today", and 7 neither links nor italicizes IMDB. ✔

Broad[edit]

No issues noted.

Neutral[edit]

  • You might want to take a look at WP:WTA. Words like "notably" or "plagued" should not be used unless cited as someone's opinion or qualified. ✔
  • A multinational competition cannot possibly be a "stress-free environment". Either make that phrase a quote or reword it. ✔ Replaced it with a quote.

Stable[edit]

No issues noted.

Images[edit]

  • The first image is the now-defunct logo. If possible, you might substitute the current logo there and put this one in the history section. ✔ Replaced it with last contest's logo, I can't find the generic version of the modern logo. The old one's in the History section now.
You can either crop the "Junior Eurovision" out of this picture, as someone did with the old logo, or you can update it when the new logo appears and every time thereafter. I'm clueless on cropping so I'll do as you say and the 2008 logo will be eventually be replaced with the 2009 logo, 2010 etc; unless someone else does the crop at some point in the future.
  • That logo also has an issue with attribution. The source listed for the image is "cut from the 2004 logo", but the actual source (company/website/creator) is not cited, and I feel that per Wikipedia:Citing sources#When uploading an image it should have that information. ✔ I think I've put the correct information in. I'm not totally clued up on image rationales (even with the guide!).
Yes, it's fine now (although I'm no expert either)

In addition to this there have been some minor changes to the way the references are formatted, nothing major. Big thanks to Nikkimaria for taking on this article! --gottago (talk) 21:44, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Some final minor changes to deal with, and this article will be ready for GA status. Congratulations. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

...and I think that's about it! Anything else? --gottago (talk) 19:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Nice job. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:21, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

JESC 2012[edit]

Do you know which countries are candidates to host the 2012 Junior Eurovision Song Contest? 20:42, 27 july 2011

Nothing has been announced yet. Don't expect anything until JESC2011 is very near. Mbch331 (talk) 20:21, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

JESC2012 redirect[edit]

Why has the JESC2012 article been redirected under the explanation of WP:CRYSTAL, only having the host country and two participating countries does not justify a stand-alone article (as shown in this diff)? WP:Crystal states that Individual scheduled or expected future events should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. As the EBU have confirmed that Netherlands as host nation, then this warrants the article being in live status, not redirected. Wesley Mouse (talk) 07:59, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

The host nation may indeed be confirmed to be the Netherlands, but does not guarantee that the contest will take place unless there are enough interested countries to join. Since we don't know the host city or venue or an adequately referenced list of a handful of participating countries, but only the host country and two confirmed countries, this article does not yet merit a place in Wikipedia. At the very least, not until the current edition is over, and more countries submit their interest. Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 08:13, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
I see your point, but there is no evidence to state that the 2012 edition is in jeopardy of not going ahead whatsoever. On the contrary, the Junior Eurovision Supervisior, Sietse Bakker, confirmed that it will in fact go ahead, and they aim to have more participants than in previous years. An inappropriate article would be if nothing can be said about them that is verifiable and not original research. As there is substantial evidence from the official company, that being the EBU, then there is enough to be able to compile a well documented article, which in turn will be built up further as preparations continue over the next coming months. The date itself for 2012 is expected to be announced later this month. And even if there is nothing said about a venue yet, it still doesn't mean a redirection. Take for example ESC2012; there is still no official confirmation on a venue for that contest, yet a small paragraph mentioning this fact is included. It is almost like saying articles for future sporting events should be "redirected" as there is no certainty that they will ever take place, especially if everyone believes the 2012 doomsday taking place. Can't exactly have one rule for specific articles, and a different one to suit ones self. Wesley Mouse (talk) 08:26, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
The final desicion on the number of countries in the contest stays entirely within the broadcasters, and not the European Broadcasting Union. So, although the Executive Supervisor may seem a reliable source, he is merely expressing hope that the broadcasters will support his work by signing in for the contest. As you can plainly see here, interest in this contest is declining over the years, and since no Eurovision-related contest (under the current format) can exist without 11 or more countries, it's apparent that the very survival of the contest is in doupt. And by the way, I think the 2012 phenomenon is bollocks. Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 08:52, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Firstly, please don't wikilink minor words such as "broadcasters", "EBU", and "2012 phenomenon", as if to imply that my intelligence levels are low. I find that very patronising on any level. Secondly, I never stated that I personally believe the 2012 phenomena either, I used the context hypothetically as an example, to state that if we're to say a future contest may not take place, then the same could be said about events post-December 2012. Which nobody can foresee that far into the future, and therefore we shouldn't presume that contests may or may not take place, based on personal opinions. If there is substantial evidence to state that the 2012 edition of JESC is to take place, which as it stands, there is quite sufficient details published by the EBU; then an article should be created, and only redirected/removed if more details arise to warrant such actions. Wikipedia is not an oracle and we shouldn't decide that an event is unlikely to take part unless details to back-up this is used. Wesley Mouse (talk) 09:35, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm not saying that the contest won't take place, I'm saying that it's far too soon to tell if the contest will take place, since it relies on interest of the broadcasters (unless you can provide references for the contrary), thus failing WP:CRYSTAL. I redirected the article because I didn't want to list it for deletion and we would soon re-create the article once it's almost certain to take place. Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 10:07, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

How contradictory to say that you never said "it won't take place, but it is too soon to say it will take place". Isn't that basically the same thing? And as WP:CRYSTAL mentions (which I have read in full) "All articles about anticipated events must be verifiable". There is enough verifiable evidence to state that the "anticipated" event exists, regardless of interest from broadcasters at this early stage. Those are details that we use as and when they become available, to expand the article itself. It is not appropriate for editors to insert their own opinions or analyses. Predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be included. But as there is no evidence to state that the contest may not take place due to personal opinion of broadcasters not stating interest. Therefore redirecting the article based on personal opinion is in fact failing the guidelines of WP:CRSYTAL. We know that a host nation for 2012 has been selected, and as such stipulates that a contest, as the situation stands, is scheduled to take place. Until documentation to say otherwise is found, then personal justification of a redirect is obscure. I would love to see opinions from other editors on this, and how many would agree with the redirection, or reinstatement of the article. Wesley Mouse (talk) 10:23, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

"There is enough verifiable evidence to state that the "anticipated" event exists, regardless of interest from broadcasters at this early stage." – Really? Will an edition with no countries exist? I don't think so. But yes, inputs from other editors will be highly appreciated, as currently this discussion really goes nowhere. Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 10:30, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I have no particular interest in the topic itself, but was asked to comment on this a while back. I can only give my opinion though: I consider this a borderline case regarding WP:CRYSTAL, and while I myself would not have created an article on it at this time, I would opt to leave the article in place.
First, planning on the event has already begun, and the contest has a nine-year tradition and a rather reliable support, which makes it very probable that it will actually occur. Second, since planning has already begun and it has significant tradition, if it were to be canceled during the next year we probably would want to have an article on it anyway.
Since I had to say "probably" twice just now I do consider it borderline. However, I tend to be pragmatic about such cases: As long as the article content is kept strictly verifiable and doesn't degenerate into a collection of speculation and rumors, I believe it's more productive to leave it in place.
Amalthea 11:14, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

JESC 2013[edit]

Why not be given any article on Junior Eurovision 2013? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.84.192.92 (talk) 17:40, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

The EBU have not announced the host, nor have they announced whether the JESC will happen, and so per WP:Crystal has been redirected. -- [[ axg ◉ talk ]] 17:45, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

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