Talk:Karl Marx

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Good article Karl Marx has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Marx Nationality[edit]

«German/Stateless» is not a nationality. [1] [2] Bald is not a hair color. Spumuq (talq) 15:24, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I believe there is an attempt to express that he was a subject of the German Empire who renounced his citizenship. The lede states, "Born in Germany, he later became stateless and spent much of his life in London in the United Kingdom." Since he this is not BLP, we should cover his lifetime. IDK about bald, he seems to have a lot of hair. It's not like he's Matt Frewer. Ogress smash! 16:12, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm guessing that Spumuq is trying to apply this RFC, where "bald is not a hair color" is given as an argument against having "none" as a religion. I don't think the arguments there directly apply here; besides the fact that nationality is not religion, it's simply not accurate to state that Marx's nationality was only German if it actually wasn't his entire life. Maybe adjusting the wording to say "German until statelessness" (or something less awkward) would make everyone happy. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 16:48, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Zur Judenfrage?[edit]

I have come to notice that this article spends very little time discussing a possible anti-semitic undertone in some of Marx' work - here I am primarily referring to the (often heated) scholarly dispute regarding Marx seeing Jews as the embodiement of capitalisms evils (Flannery, 2004; 168)* (Perry & Schweitzer, 2005; 154)**.

I realise that this discussion might have been reappropriated to the article "On the jewish Question", but even so, I find it odd that a (to my humble understanding) exemplary Wikipedia-article on Marx would not incorporate a scholarly discussion that I believe is important in many aspects of the academic understanding of Marx.

Also, should the antisemitic stuff have been flushed out at some point and send to the "On the jewish Question"-desk, I can't find any such notions in the archives. (UffeBrandt)

* *''

— Preceding unsigned comment added by UffeBrandt (talkcontribs) 13:39, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

The relevant policy is WP:WEIGHT, the article should reflect various aspects of Marx's life in accordance to the weight they are assigned by his mainstream biographers. I would point out too that Marx's views on the Jewish religion were typical of his time, as your second source points out. TFD (talk) 18:48, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Why isn't this ever said?[edit]

I was wondering why I've never seen or heard that Marx called the workers in capitalism "slaves?" I found it here: Pepper9798 (talk) 02:03, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

And here "Wage Labour and Capitol" next to last paragraph: Pepper9798 (talk) 04:45, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

You would need a secondary source to support it. The revolutionaries in the U.S. war of independence said they were slaves, but it was not literal. TFD (talk) 07:51, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Is the dictionary considered a secondary source? -- "Slave: a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person; a slave to a drug. A drudge: a housekeeping slave. Machinery. a mechanism under control of and repeating the actions of a similar mechanism. Compare "master": a person with the ability or power to use, control, or dispose of something: …an owner of a slave, animal, etc. Pepper9798 (talk) 19:48, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

He wrote that in that link, right? Look at the dictionary definition. "drudgery; severe toil." Upton Sinclair said workers were slaves in "The Jungle". Pepper9798 (talk) 02:47, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
There is probably an academic article about the use of word "slave" by Marx, either written or to-be-written. Once we can cite it, it may be possible to discuss it; otherwise it is somewhat trivia-ish "In several instances, Marx compared workers in capitalism to slaves". This would really need at least a paragraph-length discussion, and also keep in mind this may not be the best place for it - we have dozens of articles about various concepts and theories Marx coined. Here, we summarize the key ones, and I don't think his worker-slave comparison is significant enough to merit a mention here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:28, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

I see. It just seems like it's huge that he said that, & no one seems to say it, like it's being hidden purposely. Since Marx is "the most important person in history," & since the slavery article says, in "Abolitionism": "In Article 4 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states: No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their FORMS" that it should be somewhere, often. I'll leave it to others to say, possibly, each time they write the word "proletariat" the first time in any article, is to add in parentheses "(whom he called slaves)" would be good. Thank you. Pepper9798 (talk) 18:50, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

I suggest you follow the links posted to your talk page before commenting on article talk pages. In particular I recommend WP:SYN and WP:WEIGHT. No we can't take Marx's comments and a dictionary and decide what he meant. Furthermore we cannot provide any greater weight to his comments than they normally receive in reliable sources. TFD (talk) 22:28, 22 November 2015 (UTC)