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non-neutral 'Marx's work in economics laid the basis for the current understanding of labour and its relation to capital'[edit]
"Marx's work in economics laid the basis for the current understanding of labor and its relation to capital" should be rephrased as "Marx's work in economics laid the basis for some current theories of labor and its relation to capital"
How is "voluntary cooperation" contrary to what Marx wrote? TFD (talk) 12:57, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
In what terms is Marx the basis of our understanding? In Neoclassical economics and Keynesian economics he is ignored - the foundations there are based on individualism and an updated form of marginalism. However in economic sociology Marx's work can have a claim as forming a basis on which subsequent thinkers and theorsits built on - including Max Weber, Arlie Russell Hochschild and Pierre Bourdieu. In a sense you are both right. What you are looking is not how much Marx influenced subsequent thinking, but which subsequent thinking he influenced. It would read better as "Marx's work in economics laid the basis for the current sociological/socio-economic understanding of labor and its relation to capital", or something along these lines. --Tco03displays (talk) 00:21, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Labor works for capital in return for pay. TFD (talk) 01:01, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
In Marxian terms, labor (that is the proletariat in a capitalist mode of production), produces surplus-value, a fraction of which is returned to him/her as a wage while the rest is accumulated by the bourgeois (capitalist), giving him/her his/her wealth. It is NOT what you are describing, and this view is not included in neoclassical and Keynesian economics. What you are describing comes from the theories of Adam Smith, a thinker who pre-dates Marx and was an influence on him.--Tco03displays (talk) 01:33, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
While Marx accepted Smith's classical liberal labor theory of value, he said that labor works for capital in return for pay. I do not think that economists have rejected that theory or his description of it as capitalism. I suggest you re-read a book by your favorite Austrian economist and see what he says about Marx's influence. TFD (talk) 04:13, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
I did read the first volume of Das Kapital, and the more I talk with you, the more I think you haven't. This is going nowhere.--Tco03displays (talk) 10:44, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
For what its worth I feel obligated to state agreement with Tco03 on this matter. Marxist theories of labor, while still popular in many ways, do not form the foundation for modern understanding as expressed by the Austrian or Chicago schools, nor does Marx's thoughts on the matter serve as a sort of global underpinning for modern understandings. Please note I am not making a judgment as to which view is correct. This is obviously a very contentious issue. In order to maintain the most informative possible article I think it may be necessary to explain a bit of the controversy in article. I would hate to see the article continuously defaced or something similar. Jaydubya93 (talk) 17:17, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
The article does not say that modern writers accept the labor theory of value which in any case was not created by Marx but appears in Smith and Ricardo and formed part of the classical liberal ideology. The relationship between workers and capital is that workers work in return for pay. Can you tell me which modern economists reject that view? TFD (talk) 17:28, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
Why is it not possible to edit this article?? If there is a good reason for locking the article page down, please make a PROMINENT note of it. If not... then why is it un-editiable? TreebeardTheEnt (talk) 02:25, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Here is the entry in the protection log: "10:36, 13 June 2013 NawlinWiki (talk contribs block) changed protection level of Karl Marx [edit=autoconfirmed] (expires 10:36, 13 December 2013 (UTC)) ... (Persistent sock puppetry)". You are a new editor. You will become autoconfirmed in a few more days and then you will be able to edit through the semiprotection. EdJohnston (talk) 02:35, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Marx from the Bible, "From each according to..." Acts 4:34-35[edit]
It'd be interesting for this to be noted parenthetically that this was taken directly or indirectly [I heard directly since KM read the Bible] from the Bible:
Acts 4:34-35 "In fact, there was not one who was in need, for all those who possessed many things would sell some and the money be laid at the feet of the apostles.
"In turn, distribution was made by them to each according to his need." 74.60.161.158 (talk) 00:52, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
to include this, we'd need to be able to cite a reliable source stating that Marx took this from the Bible - see our policy on original research. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:37, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
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