Talk:Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl

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Good article Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
April 20, 2007 Good article nominee Listed
December 31, 2008 Peer review Reviewed
July 8, 2009 Good article reassessment Kept
Current status: Good article

Reviews[edit]

Thanks for the link; I had no idea. I just incorperated an excerpt into Reception.-- 01:09, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Incorperated; thanks for the notice.-- 04:42, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
since no one's gotten around to incorporating this, I'll see what I can do in a bit. —Quasirandom (talk) 23:27, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Meeep Meeep Meeeep ..... --KrebMarkt 15:01, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

That answers that question. This article seems to be slightly lacking in the breadth of coverage department. Only slightly, but still. (BTW, would anyone object to my refactoring all these references, here and above, into a single list, to make it easier to keep track of what's been used?) —Quasirandom (talk) 15:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Fine for me, Juhachi ? --KrebMarkt 16:04, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't mind.-- 02:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Done, and struck out the ones that have been incorporated. —Quasirandom (talk) 03:17, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

French coverage[edit]

Manga News.com did on Kashimashi: girl meet girl a dossier. Both informative & an evidence of notability. --KrebMarkt 13:33, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, we've got the notability nailed with the series and English reviews, but that's a useful dossier. Good addition to the pile of Things To Get To. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:01, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I would be happy to incorporate it, if I could read French.-- 10:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Added to my to do list. I just hope that Quasirandom won't ask for more Cross Game reviews translations. --KrebMarkt 15:22, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I think we have sufficient Reception coverage there for now -- I'm on to focusing on other referencing before splitting off the lists. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Nothing against doing translation for Cross Game just that Dossier is as difficult as what i did for Torikaebaya Monogatari (burnt out + rolling over the floor). --KrebMarkt 09:22, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Please, don't burn yourself out! Taking care of yourself is more important than any one person's contributions to the Project. Besides, it's not like we're on a deadline. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Done :) I want to help but not always by doing translations. Doing alway the same thing is like eating the same menu every day :( I'm going to write an article on something only released in France & Japan just for fun. Maybe i will be open for translation request tomorrow. --KrebMarkt 15:22, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
That's exactly why I often have trouble working on the same article for more than a week at a time, unless I'm really engaged in it. I'll try to be selective in my translation requests in the future. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:09, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Other refs[edit]

French publisher Ki-oon (The five volumes published within one year crazy) --KrebMarkt 22:08, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah -- useful. Thankee. (Five in a year isn't too unusual in North America -- Viz publishes several series on an every-other-month schedule -- crazy for them was when they put out something like a dozen Naruto volumes in three months, to catch up with Japan.) —Quasirandom (talk) 23:22, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
... which does bring out that the article doesn't mention ANYWHERE, not even in the Infobox, the French and Taiwanese (Kadokawa Media per zh.wiki) manga licensors. What other licenses are missing? Do we have all the anime licensors? —Quasirandom (talk) 00:50, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Outside of the infobox, is talking about licensors other than English really necessary? I didn't think so, since that info would be better suited for the other language's Wikpedias. Anyway, it doesn't seem to have been licensed anywhere else other than France and Taiwan. The anime doesn't appear to have been licensed outside America.-- 01:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Experience from FAC/FLC is that, yes, as part of treating the subject it encyclopedically an article does need to state all foreign licenses, and to source those in the prose (as opposed to in the infobox). We don't need detailed release info -- that would go in the relevant language wiki -- but we do need to mention it. —Quasirandom (talk) 01:22, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
(Another way to look at it is, the infobox is part of the lead, and you can't mention something in the lead unsourced without a reference for it in the body. —Quasirandom (talk) 01:24, 10 June 2009 (UTC))

Add Kadokawa Taivan Ed --KrebMarkt 13:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

French Dossier translation.[edit]

Convenient break point 1[edit]

This is a big chunk translation of the French manga/anime RS website Manga News.com on Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl. Remember to be within the limit permitted and not fall into copyvio.

“Kashimashi: girl meet girl” a été publié au Japon de janvier 2005 à mai 2007 par l'éditeur Média Works dans le magazine de prépublication seinen Dengeki Daioh.

Kashimashi: girl meet girl was published in Japan between January 2005 to mai 2007 by Media Works in the seinen pre-publication magazine Dengeki Daioh.

Hazumu Osaragi: C'est l'héroïne de notre histoire. Née garçon, elle fut transformée en fille suite à une maladresse des extra-terrestres. Hazumu est d'un tempérament indécis et gaffeur. Son coeur balance entre la douce Yasuna et l'intrépide Tomari.

Hazumu Osaragi: The story's heroine. Born a boy, she was transformed into a girl fellowing the aliens blunder. Hazumu has an indecisive temperment and is prone to blundering. Her heart balances between the soft Yasune and the intrepid Tomari.

Tomari Kurusu: C'est l'amie d'enfance d'Hazumu. Elle a toujours cherché à protéger ce dernier, faisant parfois office de «garde du corps». Elle est un peu garçon manqué (usant parfois de sa force herculéenne) mais fait preuve d'une très grande force de caractère. Elle cherche à conquérir le coeur d'Hazumu.

Tomari Kurusu: Hazumu's childhood friend. She always tried to protect the later, sometime acting as "bodyguard". She is a bit a of tomboy (using sometimes herculean strength), however she proved to be of a great strength of character. She seeks to conquer Hazumu's heart.

Yasuna Kamiizumi: C'est la première fille pour laquelle Hazumu éprouve des sentiments. Elle est atteinte d'une maladie rare qui l'empêche de discerner les visages masculins. Le fait qu'Hazumu se métamorphose en fille lui permet enfin de concrétiser ses sentiments. Yasuna est très féminine, mais aussi très réservée.

Yasuna Kamiizumi: The first girl for whom Hazumu has feelings for. She is affected by a rare disease that prevents her from discerning male faces. Hazumu's metamorphosis into a girl allows her to realize her sentiments. Yasuna is very feminine but also very reserved.

Hitoshi Sora: C'est l'extra-terrestre à l'origine de la transformation en fille d'Hazumu. Il est venu sur Terre dans le but d'étudier les comportements humains, et plus particulièrement leur sentiments et émotions. D'un naturel détaché, il finira pourtant par se lier d'amitié avec notre héroïne et ses amis. Il est toujours accompagné de Jan Pouh, son vaisseau spatial capable de se transformer en fille.

Hitoshi Sora: The alien responsible of Hazumu's transformation into a girl. He came to Earth to study human behaviors, especially their sentiments and feelings. Naturally detached, he will eventually develop friendships with the heroine and her friends. He is always accompanied by Jan Poh, his space ship capable of transforming into a girl.

Asuta: C'est le meilleur ami d'Hazumu. La transformation de ce dernier en fille l'a profondément marqué. Il finit par éprouver un certain désir à l'égard de notre personnage principal. D'un naturel enjoué, il est souvent à l'origine des nombreux gags qui parsèment notre série. Il se révèle être un ami très sincère et particulièrement fidèle.

Asuta: Hazumu's best male friend. The transformation of the later affected him deeply. He eventually desires the main character. Naturally joyful, he is often the source of many gags that punctuate the series. He revealed to be a very sincere and particularly faithful friend.

--KrebMarkt 09:53, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Ayuki: D'un naturel discret, Ayuki est souvent en retrait du groupe pour mieux observer les évènements. Elle se caractérise par son sang-froid et son intelligence qui lui permettent d'être bonne conseillère. Elle semble éprouver des sentiments pour Hazumu, sans souhaiter pour autant transformer le triangle amoureux en «quatuor amoureux».

Ayuki: With a discrete nature, Ayuki often stands behind the group to better observe events. She is characterized by her sangfroid and intelligence, which allow her to be a good counselor. She seems to have feeling for Hazumu, however she never transforms the love triangle into a "love quartet".
All these are useful for sourcing things on the list of characters. May I copy this over that talk page for use there? —Quasirandom (talk) 20:47, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Do as you please :) I knew you would need those character description. --KrebMarkt 20:59, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Convenient break point 2[edit]

De l’amour...
«Kashimashi» est avant toute chose une histoire qui nous parle d’amour. Dès les premières pages du récit, tout laisse présager qu’un triangle amoureux va se former entre l‘héroïne, Hazumu, et ses deux prétendantes: Yasuna Kamiizumi et Tomari Kurusu. Mais alors que nos deux rivales sont certaines de leurs sentiments, Hazumu ne sait quelle aspirante choisir. C’est ainsi que tout le récit de «Kashimashi» s’articule autour de l’indécision du personnage principal.

Of love...
Kashimashi is above all a story deals with love. From the story first pages, all foresee that a love triangle will form between the heroine, Hazumu, and her two contenders: Yasuna Kamiizumi and Tomari Kurusu. While our two rivals are certain of their sentiments, Hazumu doesn't know which aspirant to chose. The whole Kashimashi story revolves around the indecisiveness of the main character.

Jusque là, on peut penser que Kashimashi n’est qu’une simple histoire d’amour comme on peut en lire beaucoup dans les multiples shojo sortis en France... Et pourtant, force est de reconnaître que l’histoire créée par Akahori et Katsura sort indéniablement du lot. En effet la vision offerte par «Kashimashi» est l’incarnation de l’amour dans sa forme la plus pure, et donc la plus belle. Les sentiments qui unissent les personnages dépassent en effet deux frontières: Tout d’abord, la frontière des sexes. Malgré sa transformation en fille, Hazumu conserve intact les sentiments qu’il a pour Yasuna et Tomari, alors que sa métamorphose devait normalement présager qu’il se tourne vers la gent masculine. Il en va de même pour les deux autres demoiselles formant notre triangle amoureux: Tomari aimait Hazumu en tant que garçon et continue de l’aimer en tant que fille. Quant à Yasuna, elle éprouvait de forts sentiments pour notre protagoniste en tant que garçon, mais elle se forçait de les refouler à cause de sa maladie. Lorsque «il» est devenu «elle», ses sentiments ont alors pu se transformer en amour sincère.

From that point, we could think that Kashimashi is just a simple story of love as we can a read many in the multiples shojo released in France... And then, man should recognize that the story created by Akahori & Katsura goes out definitively from lot. Indeed the vision offered by "Kashimashi" is the incarnation of love in its purest form, thus the most beautiful. The sentiments uniting the characters go beyond two frontiers: Firstly, sexes frontier. Even transformed into a girl, Hazumu keep her sentiments, she has for Yasuna & Tomari, while her metamorphosis normally presaged that he turned toward the masculine kind. The same goes for the others two demoiselles forming a love triangle: Tomari loved Hazumu as a boy and continued to love her as a girl. While Yasuna, she experienced strong sentiments for our protagonist as a boy, but she forced herself to repress them due to her illness. When "he" became "she", her sentiments could then be transformed into a sincere love.

La deuxième frontière qui s’efface est celle du désir, car l’amour qui unit nos trois héroïnes ne s’inscrit pas vraiment dans une démarche charnelle. Profondément féminin, il s’apparente plus à l’amour courtois que l’on peut retrouver dans les romans de Chrétien de Troyes. Le désir qui anime nos personnages est celui de découvrir l'autre, d'être constamment à ses côtés. On peut trouver un autre indice de cet état de fait dans la relation qui unit Yasuna et Tomari: Pourtant rivales, elles n’en gardent pas moins une attitude très honorable l’une envers l’autre et se refusent à tout coup bas, ce qui me fait penser à la noblesse d’âme des chevaliers de jadis.

The second fading frontier is the desire one, because the love that unit our three heroines isn't real inscribed in carnal drive. Deeply feminine, it is related to courteous love that we can find in the Chrétien de Troyes's novels. The desire that animate our characters is the one to discover the other, to be constantly at their sides. We can find an evidence of this situation in the relationship uniting Yasuna & Tomari: while rivals, they still keep no less a very honorable attitude one toward other and refuse to use lowly blows, that let me think of the dignity of the old time knights.

comment: I think that the reviewer went a bit over the board on this paragraph. --KrebMarkt

o_O
... That is the first time I've ever seen a comparison of a manga/anime to courtly love.
I can't tell if I think the reviewer has an interesting insight or completely full of it. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:09, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Yea. Saying Yasuna & Tomari = knights and Hazumu = the courted lady is bold & far fetched. --KrebMarkt 15:29, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Convenient break point 3[edit]

[...]

La présence d'Hitoshi Sora et de Jan Pouh, les extra-terrestres à l'origine de la transformation en fille d'Hamuzu, induisent une part de fantastique dans le récit. Ils sont sur Terre pour étudier la psychologie humaine et useront parfois de technologies inconnues pour tirer nos amis d’un mauvais pas.

The presence of Hitoshi Sora & de Jan Pouh, the aliend responsible of Hamuzu's transformation into a girl, inducts a part of fantastic in the story. They are on Earth to study human psychology and will use sometimes unknown technologies to save our friends from bad situation.

L’humour est également au rendez-vous. C’est principalement Asuta qui est à l’origine des scènes les plus cocasses. Seul intervenant apportant un regard réellement masculin aux péripéties, ses réactions dues à la transformation physique de son meilleur ami sont souvent savoureuses. En plus d’Asuta, la maladresse dont fait constamment preuve Hamuzu et les actions parfois complètement dénuées de sens moral de nos deux martiens pimentent également cette série centrée avant tout sur le triangle amoureux Hazumu / Yasuna / Tomari.

Comedie is also present. It's mostly Asuta who is at the origin of the funniest scenes. Sole intervener bringing a real masculine views in the adventures, his reactions due to his best friend physical transformation are often savory. In addition of Asuta, the Hamuzu constant display of clumsiness and the actions devoid of moral senses of our two martians also spiced this series centered primarily around the love triangle Hazumu / Yasuna / Tomari.

Enfin, si les plus mauvaises langues pourraient taxer de légèreté les trois premiers volumes, force est de constater que les deux derniers tomes prennent une teinte beaucoup plus dramatique. Un évènement bien particulier va en effet briser le quotidien tranquille de nos lycéens, et le récit va s’engager sur une voie plus sombre et émouvante qui promet des moments scénaristiques haletants. Je préfère ne pas vous en dire plus à ce sujet, vous laissant le soin de découvrir cette superbe série par vous même.

Finaly, if the bad mouths could taxe the first three volumes of lightness, man should constate that the two remaining volumes take a more dramatic tone. A particulary event will break the quite daily life of our high schoolers, and the story will get engaged in a darker and more moving way promising panting (breath holding) scenaristics moments. I prefer to not say more on that subject, leaving to you the care to discover that superbe series by yourself.

Convenient break point 4[edit]

Cinq volumes au scénario maîtrisé
A l’inverse de nombreux shonen sentimentaux ou autres shojo qui cumulent des volumes à l’intérêt variable, le format court permet au scénario de «Kashimashi» de suivre son cours sans réel temps mort, pour le plus grand plaisir du lecteur. Certes il y a toujours certains chapitres marquant des pauses et qui s’éloignent de l’intrigue principale, mais ils nous permettent notamment de découvrir plus particulièrement certains personnages secondaires. Le scénario de «Kashimashi» se veut donc maîtrisé et progresse sûrement jusqu’à l’acmé final, qui risque d’en émouvoir plus d’un.

Five volume with a mastered/controlled scenario
In the contrary a many sentimental shonen or other shoje which addition volumes of variables interests (quality wise), the short format allow the Kashimashi's scenario to fellow a real course without time out, for the best pleasure of the readers. While there are always some chapters lacking pauses or that go astray from the main intrigue, they allow us to better discover particularly some secondaries characters. The Kashimashi's scenario want to be mastered/controlled and progresses surely toward the final acme,[1] which risk to move more than one.

[...]

Des graphismes léchés
Très agréable pour les yeux, le style graphique de Katsura est indubitablement expressif et ne peut que séduire. On peut reprocher aux personnages de «Kashimashi» d’avoir le même visage, et que seule la coupe de cheveux permet de distinguer les personnages féminins les unes des autres. Il n’empêche que nos héros sont dessinés de manière très soignée, particulièrement les yeux qui dégagent beaucoup d’intensité, notamment lors des séquences les plus émouvantes. Le travail précis et minutieux de notre dessinatrice sur ses personnages ne lui fait pas pour autant délaisser les fonds qui sont aussi très travaillés. Ils donnent une ambiance poétique au récit et sont emprunts d’une certaine mélancolie.

Well detailed arts
Very pleasant for the eyes, the Katsura art style is indubitably expressive & can only seduce. We can reproche Kashimashi's characters to have the same visage, et only the hair style allow to distingue the feminines characters one from the others. Even so you our heroes are a very detailed way, particularly the eyes which generate much intensity, most notably during the most moving scenes. The precise and thoroughly artist work on the characters don't let down however the backgrounds which are also thoroughly worked at. They create a poetic ambiance and are impregnated of a certain melancholy.

--KrebMarkt 14:40, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Le mot de la fin
En définitive, «Kashimashi» plaira sans nul doute aux fan de comédie sentimentale, d’autant plus que cette série est un peu en marge de ce qu’il est possible de trouver sur le marché français actuellement. Le brillant scénario d’Akahori couplé aux dessins soignés et expressifs de Katsura permet aux lecteurs de découvrir une oeuvre forte, à la fois poétique et mélancolique, qui peut toucher n’importe quel type de lecteurs. A découvrir d’urgence!!

Closing words
Definitively, Kashimashi will please without doubt to fans of sentimental comedy, and more so as this series is a bit in the marge of what we can currently find in the French market. The Akahori's brillant scenario coupled with Katsura's well detailed and expressive arts allow the readers to discover a strong oeuvre, at the same time poetic & melancholic, it can touch any kind of readers. To discover urgently !

Comment: Please feel free to ask question & edit as needed just don't abuse citation --KrebMarkt 14:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

That's a lot of useful stuff -- it'll take a little bit to work all of it in. *rolls up sleeves* *wonders why he's wearing long sleeves in summer* *decides to move to the virtual southern hemisphere* Time to dig in. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:24, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
I did near the whole dossier so you & Juhachi can have the big picture. Sorry that my translations quality decreased along the way.
Yea, that quite hot here too, +30 Celsius. --KrebMarkt 21:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Ok, translation done. Need Copy-edit.

Some elements will be useful for the characters list & some for the reception part. While the reception part is already well stuffed, encyclopedic & bias fighting attitude require to add a modicum of non-English parts when they are available and reliable which is the case here.

I can also give you less enthusiastic coverage from the RS French Anime Land so it won't be just the coverage from a sole source for France and thus the undue weight issue will be lessened. [2] --KrebMarkt 10:23, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah. More for the queue. Time to get back to these. And I suspect that less enthusiastic coverage would, yes, be very useful. No rush on translating it, though. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:06, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
All get re-ignited there. I swear: i'm innocent :p --KrebMarkt 20:21, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't complaining of a lack of translation, I was merely pointing out that it would not be useful as I do not know French. Besides, after reading through the thing, I realize that a good amount of it isn't even applicable to add in to this article, such as the character descriptions, or some of the author's spin on the work, like the knights/courted lady comparison.-- 22:28, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
The courtly love comparison was by a reviewer, tho', not the author. —Quasirandom (talk) 01:21, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
When I said 'author', I was referring to the author of the review. :P-- 02:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
The characters part was aimed for the characters list, do we have one? For the rest the reviewer expressed lengthly is view on plot & art style. The question isn't will it be useful but what to include to cover that review without giving it undue weight, completeness require it.
Tired rant: I won't be chagrined if this discussion end-up with "reviewed in French by ABC and XYZ websites" in the article. I don't have inflated ego. But frankly there are days when you really feel that 2nd rate non-English reviews from 2nd rate reviewers are merely here to hold the store fixing "notability" holes until someone brings up 1st rate English reviews from 1st reviewers from there the formers usefulness end. --KrebMarkt 05:21, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Anime Land reviews[edit]

vol 1 review, Emmanuel Bahu-Leyser:
Malgré un joli trait et des bons gags, Kashimashi s’avère soporifique. La psychologie du personnage principal est aussi profonde qu’un pédiluve. Il/elle se prend la tête tout du long (normal), mais n’arrive pas à nous faire compatir. À force de ne pas vouloir trop s’engager sur un axe (réflexion, humour, romance ou friponneries), ce titre devient vite fade. Précisons qu’il ne s’agit pas d’un yuri pour filles, mais bien d’un seinen fan-service, publié dans le mensuel Dengeki Comics Daiô.

Even with a good trait and some good gags, Kashimashi happens to be soporific. The main character psychology is as deep as a pediluvium . He/she think to much all along (nomrmal) but fells to make us sympathize.
By not willing to engages itself on a direction (reflexion, comedy, romance, or echii), this title becomes quickly tasteless. We must precise that it isn't an yuri for girls but indeed a fan-service seinen, published in the monthly Dengeki Comics Daiô.

vol 2 review, Emmanuel Bahu-Leyser:
Le fait que Hazumu soit devenu une fille n’a pas l’air de déranger ses deux prétendantes.

The fact that Hazumu became a girl doesn't seem to discourage her two contenders.

Malgré cela, ce triangle amoureux reste très cliché, lors des traditionnelles activités d’été.

Even so, the love triangle remains very cliché during the traditional summers activities.

--KrebMarkt 08:41, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Comparison of anime and manga[edit]

Copying/saving text that was removed from the main article because we don't yet have a reliable source for making such a comparison:

The anime follows close to the manga for the first nine episodes. In episode ten, it starts to deviate from the manga and after that, the storyline in the anime has no connection with the manga. The series contains some suggestive references and some mild fan service that was not present in the original manga. An example of this is when Hazumu is transported back to Earth after having been transformed into a girl; in the manga she was fully clothed, but in the anime she was completely naked.[1]

I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one review comment on the differences in the storyline, but until I (if no one else gets to it first) track it down, need to stash it here. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

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  1. ^ "The Young Boy's Life Changed That Day". Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl. Episode 1. January 11, 2006. TV Tokyo.