Talk:Kentucky Wildcats men's basketball

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Helms Championship[edit]

Why are we claiming that on this board. Haven't we always considered ourselves above the fray of places like UNC and Kansas that actually hang banners for those two fake championships? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.177.46.132 (talk) 16:42, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Big Blue Nation might feel this way, but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and we report what happened. The awarding of the Helms Trophy happened. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 17:46, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for making us look like douche bags.76.177.46.132 (talk) 00:45, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
Why was the 1954 Helms title removed from the sidebar? That is one of the seasons that the NCAA and Helms champions did not match, so that Helms championship should still be listed. Both the UK basketball page and the Helms page explain this. Re-adding. 75.81.40.251 (talk) 00:40, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Separation from Kentucky Wildcats article[edit]

The basketball section of the Kentucky Wildcats article floods that page, considering that Kentucky basketball is deserving of its own individual article due its large amount of information available.

Article Format[edit]

I was hoping to make this page similar to the format of Notre Dame Fighting Irish football.

deleted incorrect information[edit]

The following incorrect statement was removed (under "Awards"):

"Kentucky currently has the longest streak of consecutive games with a 3 pointer made at 665 games. (as of 2/9/08)"

UNLV and Vanderbilt both have longer streaks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal#Superlatives)

Seguin10 (talk) 21:08, 13 February 2008 (UTC)Seguin10

Deleted the insert about Calipari being named coach on March 30 as it hasn't actually happened yet. Can be put back in if he actually accepts, but right now it's just wishful thinking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.72.185.106 (talk) 20:40, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Deleted section about John Wall leading the Cats to the 2010 National Championship, although I would love for the Cats to to win , opinion pieces such as that should not be listed in this format. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rattler0553 (talkcontribs) 22:44, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:UKentucky logo.png[edit]

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April 2009[edit]

I'll be blunt: this article is a complete mess. The formatting got jacked up on a previous edit, something I don't know how to fix. The multiple tables and statistics are all over the map (regular season, post season, chronologically, coaches, players, etc), and it just leaves me cross-eyed. The incredible tradition of Kentucky basketball deserves better than what is represented here. Problem is, I wouldn't know where to begin fixing it. I'm not sure every possible UK hoops statistic belongs on this page, but where would we draw the line? Or does everyone else think it's fine? Comments are welcome. Zephyrnthesky (talk) 04:42, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it's definitely a mess. At one time, I was trying to clean up and source some of the prose, but I didn't get very far. Many of these tables need to be made into their own list articles. That'd be the best place to start, in my opinion. Acdixon (talk contribs count) 14:52, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
That would be a good idea, it could reduce the size of the page significantly and still be linked to from within the article. Trouble is, removing anything from here completely is sure to upset somebody. By the way, the whole page from "Awards and Honors" down has a formatting issue, everything has been squished over to the left part of the page. If anyone knows how to fix that, then maybe a full-scale attack of the page could leave it in better shape than its current one. Zephyrnthesky (talk) 00:42, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I've finally gotten around to splitting some information into separate articles. Let the firestorm of criticism begin, I guess. I hope someone will come back and clean up those split-off articles, since I didn't polish them much. Now maybe someone can clean up the main article a little now. There's probably still room to move the postseason info to another article or to trim it a bit. Acdixon (talk contribs count) 04:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

University of Kentucky basketball coaching stats[edit]

Greetings! I am one of the project editors for the University of Florida Wikipedia Project, and I've been cleaning up the biography of John J. Tigert, who was one of your early Wildcat athletic directors and basketball and football coaches. He was also later the U.S. Commissioner of Education and the president of the University of Florida for 19 years. One of your folks has placed UK coaching succession boxes at the bottom of the page, but the succession boxes are factually incorrect. The info boxes list Tigert as coaching the Wildcats twice (1913 and again from 1915-1916). I can find no authority for the 2nd stint as basketball coach; in fact, my sources list Alpha Brumage as the James Park as the UK coaches for those two years. Can one of you super-duper Wildcat hoops fans help me out here?! Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I just noticed you question, a little late, sorry. I originally put a link (now dead) on the Template talk:KentuckyBasketballCoach page. I have updated it to the now correct link, here. I realize that other sources might disagree. It lists Tigert coaching in between Brumage and Boles, with two others in parenthesis ((James Fark & W.P. Tuttle), whatever that means. This source on the same site lists James Park (with a P) and W.P. Tuttle as the coaches during Tigert's "second stint". I guess it is pretty hard to get information on almost hundred year old events, especially since basketball wasn't an important sport back then. --rogerd (talk) 04:17, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Just noticed this discussion. Often the early coaches lead both the men's and women's teams; here is a source for names and seasons for the women's program, which is what we've used at Kentucky Wildcats women's basketball. Don't know if this helps clear things up or just muddies the waters further! cmadler (talk) 12:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Inflated appearances?[edit]

On the header (header?) on the right side of the page, listing the Wildcat's appearances in the Tournament bracket over the years (Elite 8, Sweet 16, etc, etc) it has some to my attention that there are years listed in which the current bracket never existed. It lists Kentucky going through the "Elite Eight" and "Sweet Sixteen" in the 1940's, when in reality only 8 or so teams competed each year, which no Elite Eight or Sweet Sixteen actually existing. Someone inflated the results on the page to make it look more impressive. Of course they got into the Elite Eight. If only Eight Teams played, everyone did. And the same for the Sweet Sixteen. Of course they made it in, ALL sixteen teams made it into the Sweet Sixteen. It didn't even exist! All that DID exist was the Final Four, which should rightfully be on here.... Teafico (talk) 01:41, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

In conforming to other MBB pages, I removed those Sweet 16 appearances listed for years in which only 8 total teams played in the NCAA tournament, AND added notes for first round appearances. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 22:34, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
In response to the unregistered user that continues to revert the Round of 16 appearances for years in which only 8 total teams were in the NCAA tournament -- I could not find any evidence of the NCAA counting those years as Sweet 16 appearances as you asserted. I looked. Please provide a link for your assertion that UK should be credited for appearances in the Round 16 in years when there was NO Round of 16. Thanks. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 21:29, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Use of flagicons in roster tables[edit]

State flagicons should not used in the award/roster tables per WP:MOSICON#Do not use subnational flags without direct relevance. There is no direct relevance to use these flagicons, especially when the name of the city and state are located in the table. Country flagicons should not be used in the award/roster tables per WP:ICONDECORATION. The names of the countries are located in the table and the flagicons are unnecessary. Aspects (talk) 23:27, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Edit the coaching eras[edit]

It seems incorrect to have twice as much information about the Gillispie era as the Pitino era. I think all of these could be edited down more--especially the most recent entries. If additional information is wanted we should have sub-pages. Please edit! Fullrabb (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:38, 16 December 2010 (UTC).

Kentucky has 41 appearances in the Sweet-16. The NCAA counts any Elite-8 appearance as a Sweet-16 appearance. While to some this makes no logic, to me it does, and to the NCAA it does.[edit]

The NCAA counts every Elite-8 appearance as a Sweet-16 appearance. They use this criteria for all schools, so it is uniform and fair, regardless of whether you agree with its logic or not. I edit this page accordingly. Further, the University of Kentucky uses this criteria in their media guide. Not to toot my own horn, but I am a long contributor to the UK media guide, and I am a UK Basketball historian. In short, I have written much of the articles on Adolph Rupp, Kentucky Basketball, Rupp Arena, Memorial Coliseum, and Joe B. Hall. I am 100% correct on this subject, and I would appreciate if my edit would be allowed to remain permanent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbfwildcat (talkcontribs) 21:55, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for coming here to discuss. I posted my reasoning for my edits above previously. Do you have a link to the NCAA stating this? I looked for it and could not find anything of the sort. It doesn't make sense to count an appearance in the "Round of 16" if there was in fact NO round of 16 during those years (because only 8 total teams were invited). No other page on wikipedia includes Round of 16 appearance prior to 1951, because only 8 teams were invited from 1939-50. Thanks. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 22:03, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the page on Kansas Basketball counts the Sweet-16 appearances prior to 1950-51. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbfwildcat (talkcontribs) 15:06, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't see what you're referring to on the Kansas page, but I'll correct that error anywhere I find it (including this page) -- unless you have a link to the NCAA counting Sweet 16 appearances in the years before the Round of 16 existed. Thanks for your feedback here. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 22:34, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

"The List"[edit]

(copied from JbfWildcat's talk page)

Why do you insist on appending "(aka "The List")" onto the "Cumulative all-time statistics" heading in Kentucky Wildcats men's basketball? I don't know anyone who refers to it like that, and it is definitely not encyclopedic. I'm pretty sure it would run afoul of WP:NPOV. On a fan site, maybe it would be OK, but here on Wikipedia, not so much. Please gain consensus regarding this edit on the article's talk page before you re-insert this appelation. Acdixon (talk contribs count) 14:07, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Again, please take this to the talk page. If you continue to re-insert this content without discussing first, you risk being blocked from editing. Acdixon (talk contribs count) 02:06, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I AM THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR AND COMPILER OF "THE LIST", that's why! I posted it here originally, I update it here, I completely did ALL of the research on it. I came up with ALL the categories. In point of fact, "The List" has ALWAYS been referred to as "The List" for YEARS on the internet, LONG before it was ever posted here. It was originally compiled and posted on Kentucky Sports Report and The Cat's Pause message boards. Most UK fans on the internet(and elsewhere) are VERY familiar with "The List", and refer to it as such. The fact that you have never heard of it referred this way this merely illustrates the point that you are not a Kentucky fan, but merely someone who likes to nitpick and throw his power around. In short, I compiled it, update it, and I named it. It's my baby, and it's known as "The List". Clear?

First, you need to adopt a more WP:CIVIL tone. Second, message boards do not constitute reliable sources. Third, if you are the author and have not had this information published in reliable sources, your edits constitute original research, which is forbidden on Wikipedia. (Every part of this information is attributable to reliable sources except the name "The List".) Fourth, Wikipedia is not a place for discussing whether or not someone is a fan (you have been warned about this before). Finally, you have been repeatedly encouraged to discuss this on the article's talk page and not to repeatedly re-add it with no discussion there. All of this adds up to repeated violations of Wikpedia policy, for which you are dangerously close to receiving a block. You are free to publish whatever you want elsewhere, but on Wikipedia, you are constrained by Wikipedia's policies. I'm copying this discussion to the article's talk page. You are once again encouraged to pursue it there before re-adding this content to the article. Acdixon (talk contribs count) 14:39, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Request for Comments: Team infobox practices[edit]

Your comments regarding team infobox practices are solicited: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball#Request for Comments: NCAA Sweet Sixteen phantom appearances. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:00, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

2012 team nickname[edit]

There has been an IP edit war brewing off-and-on since the team won the national championship in April. In the "Memorable teams" section, some editors are calling the team the "8th Wonders" while others are calling them "The Undeniables". At some point, the citation "Lexington Herald Leader 03/04/12" was added for one nickname or the other, but I lost track of which, since the edit war continued without changing the cite. I searched Newsbank, which includes archives of the LHL, and found no instances of either "8th Wonders" or "Eighth Wonders", and the only reference to "Undeniables" in 2012 was in a letter to the editor. I'm not saying the citation is bogus, but it needs more information (article title, author, etc.) to be useful. I'm about to semi-protect this page and probably leave an in-line comment directing editors to this discussion. Let's get something cited to a reliable source. If we can't find one either way, I'd favor nixing the whole paragraph to continuing this edit war. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:52, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Simply Google: Coach Cal.com 2011-12 Kentucky Wildcats "The Undeniables". or Simply Google: Courier Jounal.com 2011-12 Kentucky Wildcats "The Undeniables". or Simply look at the Wiki team page for the 2011-12 Kentucky Wildcats. Jbfwildcat 8/6/12
Or, simply add an adequate citation to the article and stop edit warring over it. Not saying you have been involved in the edit war; to my knowledge, you haven't been. But the purpose of this discussion is to find an adequate citation. Per WP:BURDEN, it falls upon whoever wants to add the information to the article to cite it. And BTW, another wiki page does not even come close to meeting the definition of a reliable source. Please purge that argument from any future discussions you may engage in on Wikipedia. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 19:03, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

It is probably in reference to the front page of the Lexington Herald Leader on 03/04/12 were they called the team "8th Wonders". It is the entire front page. In Lexington it seems to be quite divided on what people want the team to be called.

Acdixon, the annotated bibliography for this page is the Lexington Herald Leader for April, 3 2012. There is no reference to Undeniables anywhere in that paper. The front page of that paper on April 3, 2012 says "8th Wonders, Cats cap phenomenal season with crown." If the goal is for WP to be accurate and accurately annotated then why would anyone be allowed to change it entry to undeniables? Clearly that is a UK fan wanting to try to name the team themselves and not even documenting were they are getting that from. I change it back to 8th Wonders any time I see it changed because 8th Wonders is supported by a properly documented source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.140.129.250 (talk) 15:49, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

As explained here, the goal is to establish an adequate source. I was unable to locate either name in the electronic Herald-Leader database, so I started a discussion here. It could well be that the headline was not recorded in the Newsbank database, as seems to have been suggested above. If so, fine; we should be able to modify the citation to reflect that, but as it stands, it had proven difficult for me to verify. Also, if someone does have a reliable source for "Undeniables", they can add that here, too. (You can see that Jbfwildcat has suggested a few above, although they are inadequately documented as well.) If the Herald-Leader printed "8th Wonders" (as you say) and the Courier-Journal printed "Undeniables" (as Jbfwildcat seems to imply), then we have reliable sources supporting both names, and both should be included in the article.
As to your promise to "change it back to 8th Wonders any time I see it changed", that's called edit warring, and it can get you banned from editing Wikipedia. By holding this discussion, we can establish consensus. Once that has been established, we can point to it and say, "Look, this is what the community agreed to." In that case, it is now the editor who seeks to violate consensus that is afoul of Wikipedia procedure, not the reverting editor.
Please refrain from further reversions until this discussion reaches some kind of consensus, and please also feel free to continue to participate here. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:37, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Acdixon, I certainly didn't say I promised to change it every time I see it. I simply said that I do change it when I see it. The annotation references the Lexington Herald Leader on April 3, 2012. I have covered the entire paper and it does not mention Undeniables anywhere. But as I mentioned it does have in bold 3 inch letters on the front page, 8th Wonders, Cats cap phenomenal season with a crown. So it would seem annotation and bibliography line up with that and should reflect such. I am in no way trying to cause an edit war. This is the only time I have ever even entered anything on WP and I only did it because it is something I care about and was incorrect and I thought I would correct it. Sorry to have caused such a problem. I love WP and look something up on here at least once a day, it is truly a wonderful resource and as a historian I wanted my Cats page to be correct. Besides isn't it in poor form to give yourself the nickname you want rather than the one you are given? Just having some fun with it all there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.140.129.250 (talk) 01:55, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

I feel like newspaper sources have just been chosen willy-nilly here without much thought as to the implications. The Courier-Journal is Louisville's newspaper. It doesn't seem appropriate to adopt the nickname that your biggest rivals choose for you. When they publish other choice nicknames for the Cats are we going to adopt those as well, since we're accepting Louisville publications as authoritative sources for UK information? Does this mean I have an official green light to edit the Louisville page and add to it all my favorite Louisville commentary from the Herald Leader? Obviously the answer should be no. This article should stick with the Lexington Herald Leader, which is 100% 8th Wonders. Don't worry about what's said in newspapers that are devoted to other teams, those aren't very authoritative sources. 68.102.217.243 (talk) 10:54, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Section break[edit]

OK, since it's obvious neither side can tolerate the other's preferred nickname being left in place while this discussion proceeds – which is sad – I've included both with {{cn}} tags until we can resolve this. I realize this is a little unfair, since there has been an attempt to cite "8th Wonders", but this is meant as a temporary fix. Now that both sides have their pet nickname in place, let's try to reach some consensus on a permanent fix, shall we?

  • We have a proposed citation for "8th Wonders", namely the front page of the Herald-Leader from April 3, 2012. Although I can't verify that in Newsbank, I'm willing to assume good faith that it was there and just not recorded in Newsbank. That, to me, seems sufficient to include "8th Wonders". Can anyone verifiably refute the claim that this headline ran in the stated issue of the LHL? Can anyone give a justifiable reason that this shouldn't be accepted as a reliable source for the nickname? Is there any other reason this nickname shouldn't be included based upon this proffered citation?
  • We have the implication that the Courier Journal may have run the "Undeniables" nickname, but we don't have an adequate citation for that. Can someone provide one (i.e. date and page number or web link, at least)? We also have an implication that the "Undeniables" nickname appeared on CoachCal.com. I'm not sure if this meets WP:RS, but I'm inclined to believe it does. Even if it does, however, we still don't have a URL to verify. Don't give me "Google it". If you want it included, you bring it here. The WP:BURDEN is on you.

Discuss. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:32, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Non Neutral headings[edit]

Can something be done with the section headings in this article? There are too many that are used to lead into information in a non-neutral tone. Examples;

  • Pursuit of perfection (2015) - clearly not neutral
  • Memorable teams - in whose opinion memorable?
  • The Marti Gras Miracle (1994) - this should be a sourced expression at the very least. This is a problem throughout, where expressions are used to describe teams, seasons and events without any sourcing.
  • An Unforgetable season - in whose opinion?
  • Return to dominance (1993) - at what point does winning become "dominance"? Says who?

And once that's done we can look at the non-neutral descriptions in the text. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 15:13, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Strongly seconded. I can take a stab at it if no one does, but hopefully a regular contributor will make the adjustments. João Do Rio (talk) 21:34, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
I might quibble about 2015, as the media did cover that year as the Pursuit of Perfection or Quest for Perfection. "Memorable Teams" needs to change, but I don't know to what. The teams listed there are, for the most part, widely known by those nicknames. I can probably source "Mardi Gras Miracle"; let me check the Lexington Herald-Leader archives. (done) "An Unforgettable Season" should definitely change, because 1991-92 is inextricably connected with the nickname "The Unforgettables". "Return to Dominance" also needs to change. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:33, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

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John Mauer career span at UK[edit]

The article says he was there from 1928-1930, but I believe it should be 1927-1930.BillVol (talk) 14:03, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes you are correct, or so says the oracle of all things Big Blue John Mauer University of Kentucky Coaching Record --rogerd (talk) 16:47, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

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Souleymane Camara[edit]

Pretty sure this is an erroneous entry in the listing for most games played at UK. 104.129.196.120 (talk) 12:11, 6 September 2018 (UTC)