Talk:Murder of George Floyd/Archive 1

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Murder

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why is the page beating around the Bush? Why doesn't it simply call it what it was - murder. When cops are killed the articles are named "murder" but when cops are the murderers it's not. This is quite a double standard of Wikipedia. Jorge1777 (talk) 13:01, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

On articles where the term "murder" is used in the title, a court of law has convicted the perpetrator of murder. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 13:09, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's not actually the case. Jorge1777 (talk) 13:15, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm afraid you'll need to be more specific if you want to further discuss renaming this article to "Murder of George Floyd" at this time. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 13:21, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jorge1777: - unless the majority view of reliable sources is that it's murder, it won't be referred to as murder. I assure you that this is not the case at this point in time. starship.paint (talk) 14:36, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just to add on, murder is a legal term. Nothing is "murder" until has been so decided by a court. "Killing", however, is not a legal term, and accurately reflects what happened here, until and unless a court says otherwise. Ergo Sum 14:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Floyd's family broke their silence on his death publicly demanding the cops to be charged with murder. --93.211.214.147 (talk) 18:29, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We wouldn't put murder in the title of a case like this - regardless of who the people involved were. The case & its participants are being investigated. Jim Michael (talk) 19:16, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

It’s probably for the best and makes more sense if you change the title to “The Murder of George Floyd”. 2A02:C7F:5E5A:D200:10E:F29C:6E3C:6E13 (talk) 06:31, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done Please see WP:BLPCRIME. —DIYeditor (talk) 06:36, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

What evidence is there to have this unsupported and defamatory description under his photo: "George Floyd, former pornographic actor and delinquent". No reputation or behavior on Mr Floyd's behalf would justify the way he was treated by the police.98.15.121.235 (talk) 02:40, 30 May 2020 (UTC) 98.15.121.235 (talk) 02:40, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It was vandalism and was removed within 10 minutes. Sorry you had to see it. -- MelanieN (talk) 02:45, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Gallery photos too big

How do we make the pictures in the gallery smaller? Gingerbreadhouse97 (talk) 18:46, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Gingerbreadhouse97Reply[reply]

Which pictures specifically? They seem fine to me; no juggernaut file sizes? Perennial Student (talk) 19:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Someone fixed them. Gingerbreadhouse97 (talk) 20:14, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Gingerbreadhouse97Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2020

The proper term to describe what happened is "pinned by the neck until dead."

To describe his death as occurring "later on" is a misnomer. And you should also include his last words on the page out of respect. 2600:8805:C880:111:85C2:58A:1AAF:55A1 (talk) 09:57, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. I can't find the term "later on" in the article, and I'm not sure what you want to be changed when you say "pinned by the neck until dead". Seagull123 Φ 14:10, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Length of video

Currently the article says knelt on Floyd's neck for over seven minutes. These two sources say the video was nine minutes - knelt on his neck for nine minutes and - the nine-minute video shows a white officer pressing his knee into Floyd’s neck. The video was posted on Facebook, but I can't access it as I don't have an account, here's the link to it on Facebook. Can someone with a FB account check it? Thanks. Isaidnoway (talk) 14:47, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I checked the video. The cop is kneeling on him at the start of the video, and maintains the kneel until nearly 8 minutes into the video, at which point the unmoving Floyd is placed on a stretcher. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18a:c680:7a60:48a0:ed7:72fb:93fd (talkcontribs)

@Isaidnoway: - the video continues even after Floyd is stretchered and taken away. That accounts for the difference in time. starship.paint (talk) 06:56, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for checking, I appreciate it. Isaidnoway (talk) 08:02, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Crowd size reports as hundreds

Sources differ unfortunately.[[1]]Mancalledsting (talk) 16:47, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Another recent source claiming "hundreds"[2].Mancalledsting (talk) 16:52, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Another source claiming "hundreds"[3]Mancalledsting (talk) 16:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2020

Demonstrators gathered at the site of Floyd's death on May 26. The crowd, estimated to be thousands of people,[1] then marched to the 3rd Precinct of the Minneapolis Police.[2] Around 8:00 p.m., police in riot gear fired sandbag rounds and chemical agents into the crowd.[3]

Please noted that sources are also claiming hundreds as well

Demonstrators gathered at the site of Floyd's death on May 26. The crowd, estimated to be "hundreds" and "thousands" of people,[4][5][6][7] then marched to the 3rd Precinct of the Minneapolis Police.[6] Around 8:00 p.m., police in riot gear fired sandbag rounds and chemical agents into the crowd.[8] Mancalledsting (talk) 16:58, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Demonstrators gather around Minneapolis to protest death of George Floyd". KSTP. May 26, 2020. Retrieved May 26, 2020.
  2. ^ "Hundreds Of Protesters March In Minneapolis After George Floyd's Deadly Encounter With Police". WCCO. May 26, 2020. Retrieved May 26, 2020.
  3. ^ "Shortly before 8 p.m. outside the 3rd Precinct headquarters, Minneapolis police in riot gear were firing chemical agents and sandbags at the protesters, who were throwing water bottles at them in what appeared to be a standoff". Twitter. Star Tribune. Retrieved May 26, 2020.
  4. ^ "Demonstrators gather around Minneapolis to protest death of George Floyd". KSTP. May 26, 2020. Retrieved May 26, 2020.
  5. ^ https://time.com/5842687/george-floyd-killed-minneapolis-police/
  6. ^ a b "Hundreds Of Protesters March In Minneapolis After George Floyd's Deadly Encounter With Police". WCCO. May 26, 2020. Retrieved May 26, 2020.
  7. ^ https://fox5sandiego.com/news/national-news/hundreds-fill-streets-in-protest-of-george-floyds-death/
  8. ^ "Shortly before 8 p.m. outside the 3rd Precinct headquarters, Minneapolis police in riot gear were firing chemical agents and sandbags at the protesters, who were throwing water bottles at them in what appeared to be a standoff". Twitter. Star Tribune. Retrieved May 26, 2020.
 Partly done: Most of the sources given say "hundreds"; and anyway better wording is to use only one of the two so I have gone ahead and changed it to only read "hundreds". RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 16:50, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

More sources report no attempt of police intervention

See these [4] [5] They make me doubt further that the "riots" are not a publicity stunt.Mancalledsting (talk) 12:02, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This discussion can't move forward without other editors knowing specifically what change to the article you're proposing. Neither of the sources you link to propose anything like the events in Minneapolis being a "publicity stunt," so that's not a tenable addition. Evan (talk|contribs) 13:49, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Other Videos

The video of him being removed from the vehicle (possibly resisting) can be found at: https://twitter.com/i/status/1265409119843954694 172.101.5.82 (talk) 15:19, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mayor Frey is now pursuing criminal charges

He announced this over 30 minutes ago. Please include this.Mancalledsting (talk) 18:19, 27 May 2020 (UTC) Here is also a local online source [6] Mancalledsting (talk) 18:21, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As of yet, no arrests have been made! --93.211.214.147 (talk) 19:31, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Because they need a grand jury indictment first. EvergreenFir (talk) 19:45, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"Pursuing criminal charges" is incorrect. The mayor doesn't pursue (or have the authority to pursue) criminal charges. What the mayor did (per the cited source) was call on the County Attorney to pursue criminal charges; but the mayor can't order the county attorney to do it. The county attorney doesn't work for the mayor; they are independent parts of different local governments. Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 16:06, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

About the man who was shot and killed during ensuing protests on May 27

Should that be mentioned in the infobox as an additional indirect death? Pizzaguy875 (talk) 18:59, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The point of races in the lead

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Apparently when at least one officer is non-white, it is still necessary to include the races of people in the lead, and I am being told to seek consensus for removing them. @Isaidnoway: please explain the other side to me; why is it necessary? GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 15:12, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

GhostOfDanGurney—are you referring to this edit? If so, why are you removing the reliably-sourced information that George Floyd was an African-American person? What is your reasoning behind that? Bus stop (talk) 15:22, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think that including the race of the victim is fine but it is not neccessary to include the race of the police officer since it will only create more anger and divide people. It can also be clearly seen in the photo that the cop is white. It also isn't scientifically / grammatically correct to say "white" or "black" when introducing someone. Frozenranger (talk) 28 May 2020 (UTC)
We can't assume everyone will see the photo. There are plenty of people who access Wikipedia with vision impairments who rely on screen readers or similar. While the Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Alternative text for images provides a method to convey the essential information of the image, we shouldn't rely on images as the sole method to convey important information that should be in the article, unless we absolutely cannot avoid it. See also Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Images. Edit: I should clarify I was not intending to expressing an opinion whether the ethnicity or race of any of the participants is important (although my gut feeling is mentioning that George Floyd was an African American is important). I only wanted to point out is "people can see it in the image" is a poor argument for whether we should mention the information. Nil Einne (talk) 19:06, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The point of the article is not to "shine light on police violence". We follow sources. If sources say "black", we say "black". If sources say "white", we say "white". Bus stop (talk) 15:39, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Frozenranger: That is not what we do as an encyclopedia. We shine no lights nor consider any consequences. We only aggregate reliable, neutral information. Ergo Sum 15:51, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Ergo Sum: @Bus stop: Including race definitely divides people, your claiming that your part of the encyclopedia which I am also just as much a part of, thus that sentence is not helpful to me or anyone who is a member. If we are including race as the leading point then we must also accept that we are insighting anger and rage into people that otherwise isn't neccessary. When you introduce someone to your friends and family do you say "This is my black/white friend john"? Most likely not. That information is irrevelant and not neutral. Neutral information doesn't contain race or sexuality Frozenranger (talk) 28 May 2020 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) There shouldn't be any races that should be mentioned at this stage because it should be all races or none. Currently, only the "suspect/victim" and one officer are being labeled and not the other three officers giving WP:UNDUE weight and making this appear to be a white cop on black victim racial hate crime. The available information indicates there are other races of officer including the asian officer and what appears to be a black or hispanic officer in the videos. 172.101.5.82 (talk) 16:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@172.101.5.82: I agree with your statement, race shouldn't be included at all. Frozenranger (talk) 28 May 2020 (UTC)
  • There is an overwhelming consensus in the reliable sources used in this article that identify the race of both Floyd and Chauvin. I can start a RfC if editor's feel it is necessary to establish a firm consensus one way or the other to include their races in the lead. Obviously I support the inclusion per RS, V and NPOV. Isaidnoway (talk) 16:45, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I tend to agree that at this point, mention of the races in the lede may be undue. The crux of the matter was the killing. Reliable sources tend to mention the races as a segue to inferences. I think it's proper that they be mentioned in the main body but not necessarily in the lede. Ergo Sum 16:46, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Isaidnoway: Yes as an editor please consider removing the race of the cop because it adds no value in terms of objective reasoning. Maybe we can include if further down or in a different section but not as the leading sentence. Thank you Frozenranger (talk)
Frozenranger—you say "it adds no value". Nothing adds any value because you don't know the interests of the readers. We should be reflecting reliable sources. If reliable sources say an individual is black, we dutifully convey that information to the reader. If reliable sources say an individual is white, we dutifully convey that information to the reader. Bus stop (talk) 20:06, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Ergo Sum: Thank you Frozenranger (talk)
Given the seeming rapidly developing consensus of the above that this is not neutral and undue, I have as an uninvolved editor boldly gone ahead and removed the mention. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 16:59, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The point of mentioning races in the lead is to cover the most important aspect of this event. How is it not neutral to mention their races? How is it undue? Whether or not the impetus for the officer doing what he did was racial, the reaction to it is. We can't deny how important the racial component is to this story, and it has to be demonstrated prominently. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't disagree that race should be mentioned somewhere in the article, but as pointed out by Ergo Sum, "The crux of the matter was the killing. Reliable sources tend to mention the races as a segue to inferences." Thus, it being mentioned immediately as such in the lead is a bit too much detail on what is possibly not the actual factor behind the incident. As the IP points out, mentioning it in the lead makes "this appear to be a white cop on black victim racial hate crime", which is not what any of the sources say. The Guardian, for example, only mentions the officers' names and makes no mention of race except for saying the victim was "a black man" or, alternative example from the same source, "the black man killed by police in Minneapolis". RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 17:12, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This Guardian article begins with The FBI and authorities in Minnesota have launched investigations into the death of an African American man after an incident, captured on video, in which a white Minneapolis police officer knelt on his neck as he lay on the ground. This Guardian article has the sub-headline Protesters clash with police, who deploy teargas and stun grenades, following death of black man at hands of white officer. The Guardian prominently features race in their stories. Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 17:28, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • That the man who died was black and the police officer with his knee on the man's neck was white is mentioned in the headlines and/or leads of the RSes, and thus should be in the lead (in the first sentence really) of our article. The crux of the matter isn't the (alleged) killing, but the (alleged) killing of an unarmed black man by a white officer. There is not a single RS that discusses this event that doesn't prominently discuss race. The races of the other officers should also be in the lead (but not the first sentence), as they're significantly covered by RSes. Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 17:21, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • (edit conflict) If the races of the other three officers are known/published with WP:RS, then I have no argument with including them all. They should be all included in a single WP:NPOV verified sentence, and there is no reason to link the races. 172.101.5.82 (talk) 18:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • The crux of the matter is the death of a civilian due to police incompetence. Regardless of the source, wikipedia can always disseminate information in the most neutral and objective way possible, since it is an encyclopedia and not a private news company. Race does not matter since "all lives matter". If you want to create a politically polarizing article then include race, sexuality... etc, however as explained by @Ergo Sum:, the point of an encyclopedia is not to shine light or drive a narrative on politically sensitive topics. Wikipedia is a place for objective presentation of events, not the subjective bits that make up the event. Again, people should not be defined by race. Thank you Frozenranger (talk)
Frozenranger, see WP:RGW. We are not here to right great wrongs. People should not be defined by race. I agree! However, we can't ignore how race factors into events like interactions with police, and ignoring it is whitewashing an integral part of the story. The story isn't the death of a civilian due to police incompetence, the story is an African American civilian dying due to the overuse of force by the police, and the officer with his knee on Floyd's neck is white. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Muboshgu "the story is an African American civilian dying due to the overuse of force by the police" I agree, however the part about the cop being white is irrevelant in the lead. It can be included in the other subcategories of the article. White cops using too much force isn't the problem, its the overuse of force by all cops. Frozenranger (talk)
Frozenranger, so the race of the victim is relevant, but the race of the alleged killer is not? You don't find that strange at all? Drmies (talk) 18:30, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(edit conflict)Britannica states that all races (but especially minorities) are targeted by policy brutality;[7] and that African-Americans have typically been the worse affected. Whether this kind of information should go directly in the lead is still open to question as in this case the other officers were not just "white" so it complicates the matter. Readers might be better served by having a more thorough discussion on race and police brutality later in the article, or simply with a link to the article on this topic, rather than blanket labeling the races of the involved officers in the lead without any further context on this obviously complex US political issue. Maybe a sentence of the kind "The incident has been described as an instance of police brutality targeted at African-Americans."[citation needed] (which requires a reliable source be found for this). Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 18:22, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Frozenranger, User:RandomCanadian, User:Ergo Sum, I trust that none of you will consider removing "who is white" again. It is a ridiculous proposition to take out this one fact that every single reliable source agrees is relevant. This plain and relevant and well-sourced fact has been here since the beginning, of course. That some of you can come here and claim that somehow this is not important enough to be in the lead is mind-boggling. Drmies (talk) 18:30, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you'll allow me to correct the awkward wording. Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 18:31, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
RandomCanadian, "white Minneapolis police officer" seems more awkward to me than the alternative. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(edit conflict) @Drmies: I haven't removed anything. Nor am I arguing any of the merits here. I really don't have much more to say beyond what I did above. Ergo Sum 19:21, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Some editors here need to be smacked with a few trout. Frozenranger, to suggest that mentioning race "only create more anger and divide people" and "[r]ace does not matter since "all lives matter" is a clear and unambiguous violation of WP:NPOV. WP:RS overwhelmingly highlight the races of the involved people. EvergreenFir (talk) 19:12, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • All lives matter is as neutral as it gets EvergreenFir. Why should people be defined by race? Why should we lower our standards to subpar reporting? The crux of the article is police incompetence, not war on blacks. Also your attacking me with a trout? please grow up. Frozenranger
    We just report the sources. If the sources mention race, we do. If there is a controversy about race, we mention it. —DIYeditor (talk) 19:25, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • (edit conflict) Frozenranger, from All Lives Matter: All Lives Matter (#AllLivesMatter) is a slogan that has come to be associated with criticism[1] of the Black Lives Matter movement.[2] How is that "as neutral as it gets?" It's not. Neither is "war on blacks". Mind talk page guidelines. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:27, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • @Muboshgu: I'm just replying to a comment thanks. I have no intention to associate all lives matter with a slogan. Let me rephase then: Everyone's life is of equal importance on earth. Is this irrational? Do you not see how we are leading the reader on to a narrative? Frozenranger
        You are likely heading toward a topic ban. Please refer to WP:NOTFORUM. I repeat, we just report the sources. —DIYeditor (talk) 19:35, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Race and RS

I feel like I've had to do this a dozen times before on other articles, but here we go again (emphases added):

  • "The video, captured by Darnella Frazier, begins with the man, who is black, groaning and repeatedly saying "I can't breathe" to the officer who has his knee on the man's neck. The officer is white." - CBS
  • "Floyd, 46, died after a white Minneapolis police officer, Derek Chauvin, kneeled on his neck for at least seven minutes while handcuffing him." - The Daily Beast
  • "An FBI investigation is underway and four officers have been fired following a fatal encounter Monday between Minneapolis police and an unarmed 46-year-old black man named George Floyd. ... Overnight, video of the attempted arrest circulated on social media. Posted by Darnella Frazier on Facebook, the nine-minute video shows a white officer pressing his knee into Floyd’s neck behind a squad car. While lying facedown on the road, Floyd repeatedly groans and says he can’t breathe. “He’s not even resisting arrest right now, bro,” one bystander tells the white officer and his partner, in the video." - CBS Local
  • "The bystander video that circulated widely on social media Monday night shows a white Minneapolis police officer pressing his knee into a black man’s neck during an arrest, as the man repeatedly says “I can’t breathe” and “please I can’t breathe.” - NYTimes (archived version to avoid paywall)
  • "Four Minneapolis police officers have been fired following the death of an unarmed black man in police custody Monday night." KMSP Fox 9
  • ""We are once again traumatized by the tragic scene of a black man pleading for his life at the hands of a white police officer," Smith said in an emailed statement. " - KSTP local news
  • "Video of the incident shows that a white police officer had a black man pinned to the ground next to the back tire of his patrol car with his knee on the man's neck." - NBC News
  • "...after a viral video showed a white police officer putting his knee on the neck of a black man, who later died." - Washington Post
  • "Police officers near the Minneapolis 3rd Police Precinct on Tuesday during protests against George Floyd's death. Floyd, a black man, died after a white officer, Derek Chauvin, knelt on his neck for more than eight minutes. " - Insider
  • "In widely circulated cellphone video of the subsequent arrest, Floyd, who was black , can be seen on the ground with his hands cuffed behind his back while Officer Derek Chauvin presses him to the pavement with his knee on Floyd's neck. The video shows Chauvin, who is white , holding Floyd down for minutes as Floyd complains he can't breathe. The video ends with paramedics lifting a limp Floyd onto a stretcher and placing him in an ambulance." - Boston Globe
  • "The mayor of Memphis said Thursday that he shares the frustration of protesters angry with the death of a handcuffed black man during a confrontation with a white police officer in Minnesota." - Star Tribune

These are from the first 15 or so sources in the reference list (plus one linked from one of those sources). EvergreenFir (talk) 19:38, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yeah we just had to deal with this on the Ahmaud Arbery page a week or two ago. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:51, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • ... Mr. Floyd, a black man, who died after a white police officer pinned him to the ground with a knee to the neck. WSJ
  • ... the killing of an unarmed black man by a white police officer. BBC
  • ... George Floyd, a black man who was seen pinned down in a video by a white police officer and later died. ABC News
  • ... the white police officer seen on video kneeling against the neck of a handcuffed black man who complained that he could not breathe and died in police custody. AP News
  • ... the death of an unarmed black man seen in a video lying face down in the street, gasping for air and groaning, 'I can’t breathe,' while a white officer knelt on his neck for several minutes. Reuters
  • ... George Floyd, a black man who died after a white officer pinned his knee against the suspect's neck as he struggled to breathe ... Fox News
It's all of the RSes. Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 20:01, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
   This argument makes no sense. Most of these references are from news papers whose goal is very different from that of an Encycolpedia. News sources should be used indeed, but the text should be made neutral before becoming part of an Encycolpedia.


Law enforcement section

I've filled out a Law enforcement subsection in the Reactions section. Apparently quite a number are speaking out on this topic, keep an eye out for more. —DIYeditor (talk) 23:49, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@DIYeditor: thank you for starting the section! I started working on prose a bit. It seems to have become a rather long list of Police Chief names condemning the action. Any thoughts on how to make the prose more wieldy? —Shrinkydinks (talk) 04:38, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Looks good as of now, trimming the actual names was a good idea, as well as providing the support offered by the local police union. —DIYeditor (talk) 16:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Agreed, looks great. Thank you for your help! —Shrinkydinks (talk) 20:50, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unicorn Riot Coverage

During the protests the media site Unicorn Riot did live coverage of the protests and interviewed people apart of it. I'm not exactly sure how to add this to the article but here is the link to their Youtube Channel where the livestreams are up. Unicorn Riot Youtube Channel Eons of Mollusk (talk) 20:55, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2020

Include a link to a wikipedia page regarding Derek M. Chauvin, which includes his history on the force. Prior controversies regarding his conduct are relevant. 76.65.30.150 (talk) 18:55, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

He doesn't have a standalone Wikipedia article, and probably won't as a WP:BLP1E. – Thjarkur (talk) 19:05, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It’s relevant and it should be included in his life since it’s one of the reason why he was in Minnesota in the first place. And we might as well remove that he was a father and that he lost his job as well. Also as you already stated it’s not clear if police knew about it or not. Political and social issue have nothing to do it. Byulwwe (talk) 21:32, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2020

This sentence may be incorrect: The policemen taunt Floyd to "get up and get in the car,"[29] to which Floyd replies: "I will ... I can't move."[30] In the video, it sounds like a bystander actually says this to Floyd. Whichslued1 (talk) 20:44, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You are correct I noticed that too. —DIYeditor (talk) 20:48, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. "it sounds like a bystander actually says this" is your your own interpretation of this. Given that it's unclear and that it's a controversial topic, if we quote this WP:PRIMARY source, it would be better if we could cite a WP:SECONDARY source which describes this. Or at least, this is my take on things, if some of you are fine with stating in Wikivoice that this is actually what was said... Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 20:56, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are two police officers around the side of the car pinning George Floyd's legs. It was my understanding that it was these officers who told George to get into the car, not any bystanders. —Shrinkydinks (talk) 20:58, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's not accurate. It's a black man who tells him to get in the car. There are a lot of omissions and inaccuracies in our transcription. That's a notable one. It's the bystanders who told him to just get in the car. What we have linked as the full video is not the full video. You can see it starting at 5:00 in Video on YouTube. We need a better transcription. —DIYeditor (talk) 21:02, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Possible im no expert but just putting it out there for consideraton just in case. Not sure why but fist time on wiki and to make my account I got two words to prove im human as you do the whole gdyee3H my words were cahnlungs and wailssum so I did. Because I believe I'm onto something and just for George and for the 0.5 percent chance they don't check. I don't even know if they do MRI as part of autopsy but I believe in this case they should. Wikijude75 (talk) 21:40, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lead incorrect on death of Garner

Eric Garner had carotid compression of the neck, not "suffocation." The article incorrectly states that suffocation was the cause of death. This is important because carotid compression is likely relevant here while suffocation is not based on knee position and ability to speak. Cutting off blood supply to the head with a carotid choke hold used against Garner killed him, not suffocation. Lead should be correct to the cited cause of death2600:8800:1580:20D3:0:0:0:1002 (talk) 22:05, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Per your observation and the cited source, the corresponding statement in the lead has been changed from "while being suffocated" to "after being placed in a choke hold." Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 22:19, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(edit conflict) The official cause of death for Eric Garner was "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police" as detailed at Death_of_Eric_Garner#Medical_examiner's_report_and_autopsy. It does not mention "carotid compression". I'm fine with AzureCitizen's changes though. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:22, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
User:EvergreenFir As I said, it was a carotid choke hold. We have an article on it specifically w/ section on how Law Enforcement uses it Chokehold#Use in law enforcement (lateral vascular neck restraint). Choking off blood supply is different than suffocation (choking off air supply) though both can lead to death. The coroner report does state the airway was ininjured. Persons that have their air supply choked off can't speak. 2600:8800:1580:20D3:0:0:0:1002 (talk) 23:29, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Split protests section into its own article

It looks like the protests are getting eventful, especially with the abandonment and burning of the police station. That has not previously happened. I suggest a new article be created, on the lines of the Ferguson unrest and 2015 Baltimore protests articles. --Blemby (talk) 04:08, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Agree, it seems like the protests have become notable enough to warrant their own article, similar to the examples you listed. JJonahJackalope (talk) 04:19, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There is no SIZE issue at this point, the riots are too tightly associated with the events of the death and investigation. You can make a new section that highlights the situation more but splitting it was inappropriate at this point. --Masem (t) 06:18, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This has been done. JustLucas (they/them) (talk) 11:45, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Video quality and transcription

What has been linked as the "full video" (Video on YouTube) is not the full video and it looks like a cell phone video of a monitor rather than even a true copy of the original which makes it a blatant copyright violation. The title is false, we cannot link that as the title implying it is the full video. The only good copy I have found so far is at 5:00 in this Video on YouTube. This wouldn't be my choice of videos to link given the extraneous content before and after (I apologize for even having to link this source) but it is the best copy I have seen.

If you watch the actual full video you will see a number of problems with our current transcription of what happens. If a movie is considered a RS as a primary source for its own plot, isn't the actual video a reliable source? It is apparently an African-American-sounding man who seems like a bystander who says George should get in the police car. It is clear from the video here at 6:05 Video on YouTube. You can see him someone walk up shortly before that and start talking.

IMPORTANT:

  1. We have been linking to an obvious copyright violation.
  2. We have been misleading readers that the poor copy we linked is the "full video".
  3. We have been misleading readers that is the police who tell him to get in the car when it appears to be and sounds like the African-American bystander who walks up.

I appreciate any effort to work with me on this. —DIYeditor (talk) 04:25, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • @DIYeditor: I agree that that copy of the video should be removed. I don't agree that it's an African-American-sounding man who seems like a bystander who says George should get in the police car. I don't know what accent is present. We follow the reliable sources. What sources explicitly say it's a bystander?
  1. Agence France Presse: the officers taunted him to "get up and get in the car."
  2. CBS News: An officer keeps insisting he get in the car
  3. WVLT-TV An officer can be seen insisting Floyd get in the car
  • starship.paint (talk) 05:19, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Starship.paint: You can see the a man walk up in the video before he starts speaking. He starts talking while he is on camera. Also you can tell that the voice is different from the Asian cop. The video itself is a RS just as a movie is a RS for its own plot. —DIYeditor (talk) 05:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @DIYeditor: - I agree that the voice is different from the Asian cop. I'm not sure that it sounds like the bystander who walked up. I found another source, Buzzfeed News, [8] that states "A person can be heard talking to Floyd, telling him to get up and get in the car, although it is unclear if it is an officer speaking." I will edit that in that Buzzfeed is unsure, but AFP, CBS, and WVLT attribute it to the police. starship.paint (talk) 06:06, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Thank you for finding that! —DIYeditor (talk) 06:11, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I hope this does not sound like I am stereotyping people but as someone who has known and spoken to plenty of African-Americans, I have little doubt that the person speaking is African-American or someone who is very good at affecting that accent and dialect. Also from what he says, he is clearly not a cop. I would be irate if I thought the police were holding Floyd down and telling him to get up, more irate than I already am, and I think it would be a disservice to our readers to make them more angry than need be. I have asked on WP:RS/N what to do in a case like this. Balancing it with the source you've found is a great start! Thanks again! —DIYeditor (talk) 06:17, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Someone tells Floyd to "get up and get in the car," (which Agence France Presse, CBS News and WVLT-TV identify as one of the officers, while Buzzfeed News states that it is "unclear" whether it was an officer speaking),

This is what I wrote, DIYeditor. I really couldn't find any more reliable sources discussing this (many were reprints of AFP). Otherwise, there were questionable ones like the New York Post, and unreliable ones like the Daily Mail and Metro, all of which say it was an officer, but of course, we shouldn't use those. starship.paint (talk) 06:16, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you, that's great! I really feel like we have helped our readers with this. —DIYeditor (talk) 06:18, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Starship.paint: This is a high-quality addition to the article; thank you! @DIYeditor: Thank you for organizing this effort! —Shrinkydinks (talk) 09:13, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No mentions of a protest that happened in New York City

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/more-than-a-dozen-arrested-during-george-floyd-protest-at-union-square/2436965/

At around 4:00 ET, there were protests in Union Square in New York City led by over 100 people. Over 40 people were arrested. There is no mention of this anywhere in the article. This should be added under "Memorials, protests, and riots" subtitle.

Shamaflama (talk) 04:50, 29 May 2020 (UTC)ShamaflamaReply[reply]

 Done. Added in the "Memorials, protests, and riots" section in the "Elsewhere in the United States" subsection. Thank you for providing a source and specific details! —Shrinkydinks (talk) 09:09, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2020

Stop citing “CBS News” and mainstream media outlets. We can all agree that mainstream news channels will caption things to fit THEIR narrative. Instead, cite these as “video published by CBS News“ or “cell phone video from...” 2600:8803:F100:425:E5A3:4D3B:EFED:5453 (talk) 06:05, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done: Please review WP:RS & WP:NPOV EvergreenFir (talk) 06:41, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's worth noting that regardless of your opinion of them, no mainstream news outlet is the original source for any of the videos. They were captured by witnesses at the scene of George's death, and are only carried by different news outlets. —Shrinkydinks (talk) 08:38, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2020

The name of the article should be changed to “The Murder Of George Floyd” 173.237.111.84 (talk) 07:49, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done. No one has been convicted of murder. WWGB (talk) 08:19, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2020

Change “Death of George Floyd” to “Murder of George Floyd” Elijah318 (talk) 08:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done - this has been rejected immediately above & on the the archive. Jim Michael (talk) 09:01, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Claim not supported by sources cited, and another reason to resist rush to judgment

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

BeŻet has added the 'context' that "The arrest was conducted after Floyd allegedly 'physically resisted' when ordered to exit his vehicle, a claim that has been contradicted by available video recordings.[2][5]" I have watched both videos and they do not show what happened when he exited his vehicle nor do they have anyone contradicting the claim. Not to say the claim is true or untrue, just that these videos don't support or contradict it. I don't have the wikiskills to handle this myself.

Also, while I think the arrest killed Floyd, here's another reason to withold judgement until an investigation has been done or at least await the results of an autopsy. Despite the apparently clear evidence of our own eyes that he was killed by the knee on his neck, it MAY rather be the weight on his chest that did it. I base this on looking at his airway, and it's important because of the implications for how the police make arrests in future. (Also: I have no idea why my comment is coming out with a blue box around it. I can't find a way to fix it) alacarte 11:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Professor alacarte (talkcontribs)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

CNN TV Crew arrest

Minnesota State Patrol arrested in Minneapolis 5:11 UTC-6 29.5.2020 CNN crew (Omar Jimenez as first arrested) showing journalist credentials during live relation, making de facto censorship and breaking first ammendment of the Constitution of the USA. 6:30 released.2A02:A314:813F:1000:9841:9846:8C23:F295 (talk) 11:57, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is mentioned under Twin Cities riots Ed6767 (talk) 12:41, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Surname:Floyd or Lloyd?

Reports on this seem divided on whether the victim's surname is Floyd or Lloyd. Can anyone definitively settle this matter? M.J.E. (talk) 15:15, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

They aren't divided. "Lloyd" is a typo in some articles. —DIYeditor (talk) 15:18, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is there some possibility that "Floyd" could be the typo?

I'm not pushing for a controversial view, and have no opinion on the matter - just wondering how one resolves it. I've seen "Lloyd" in more than one publication on line - and heard both "Lloyd" and "Floyd" on A.B.C. radio news in Australia - a source I would usually trust to get names right. So, at present, I don't feel I can tell which name is correct.

Do you settle it by a majority vote of all the different sources that report on this? Or is there some source that gives the correct name beyond any possibility of dispute? M.J.E. (talk) 17:47, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

According to his facebook page it's spelt 'FLOYD'--Olatunde Brain (talk) 02:44, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2020

Please consider changing the image to one of George Floyd alive. If you have trouble finding one please e-mail me to request one at (Redacted). 2601:1C2:1601:4DC0:74ED:97C1:95E7:11E5 (talk) 16:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done: Please make your request for a new image to be uploaded to Files For Upload. Once the file has been properly uploaded, feel free to reactivate this request to have the new image used. - QuadColour (talk) 16:53, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2020

Include the Chief of Police of Detroit in the other cities listed under Law Enforcement 74.115.237.100 (talk) 19:49, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done - This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". - MrX 🖋 19:55, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Filmed by?

Is whoever filmed it really notable? I don't think the cameraperson really pertains to the event itself. Ed6767 (talk) 20:32, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That's true, I don't really think it belongs there. Thanoscar21talk, contribs 22:01, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Will rm from infobox for now, Thanoscar21 love your name btw lol Ed6767 (talk) 22:42, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, nice picture of Kings Cross, Ed6767! Thanoscar21talk, contribs 22:54, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanoscar21, thank you :) Ed6767 (talk) 22:56, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

Change the title of the article to “Killing of George Floyd” 96.248.84.106 (talk) 02:04, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is a section above at Talk:Death of George Floyd#Requested move 27 May 2020 where you can make a "support" comment in that regard. AzureCitizen (talk) 02:08, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

"Looking at his racist ideologies, people got angered" Donald Trump personally asked for the enquiry to be investegated by the FBI and he was referring to the people looting target stores, this is not a protest and setting fires to buildings which could of killed many people. This is a very biast piece of writing. Prometheus onex (talk) 06:31, 30 May 2020 (UTC) Prometheus onex (talk) 06:31, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Do you have a Reliable Source for improving the article in some fashion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.5.65 (talk) 06:37, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
 Not done Speaks for itself. —DIYeditor (talk) 06:41, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Floyd's work in Minneapolis

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


There isn't much written about the jobs he held:

The native Texan followed some friends there about five years ago and landed a job working security at a Salvation Army store downtown.

Soon thereafter, he had picked up two others gigs: one driving trucks and another as a bouncer at Conga Latin Bistro where he was affectionately known as "Big Floyd."

Reference: https://www.foxnews.com/us/who-is-george-floyd-minnesota — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wbenton (talkcontribs) 12:02, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Not sure what relevance this has.Slatersteven (talk) 12:18, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Separate article for protests/riots

It's pretty quickly becoming a major thing. Kingofthedead (talk) 20:37, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No objection here. Are there equivalent separate articles for other similar situations in the past? —DIYeditor (talk) 20:39, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@DIYeditor: yeah, see Ferguson unrest or 2017 Anaheim protests or 2016 Portland, Oregon riots. Kingofthedead (talk) 21:03, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This has been done. JustLucas (they/them) (talk) 11:46, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"Murder of George Floyd" listed at Redirects for discussion

Information.svg

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Murder of George Floyd. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 29#Murder of George Floyd until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. CrazyBoy826 15:54, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The murder in know (29.05.2020) custody. Derek Chauvin is in custody charged with on third-degree murder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FixWRJIdH0 --93.211.217.53 (talk) 18:43, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

Please change the picture of initial photo of floyd. The picture can be used later on in the article but as a sign of respect towards him as a person at least change the picture to a photo of him. 64.231.174.10 (talk) 03:36, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done: As this article is about the death of Floyd, the still from the video is much more relevant than a regular photo of Floyd. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! 05:11, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

Blocked Floyd down by pushing his knee down on his neck for 9 minutes and not Kneeling on his neck 41.250.86.114 (talk) 10:42, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Do you have a source?Slatersteven (talk) 10:43, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
 Not done - Please follow the instructions when posting an edit request: This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". - MrX 🖋 11:27, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Remove mention of color from article

Removing color from article would remove racist context. Now, reading the article and all other links like 'black man killed by white policeman' it is clear where you are heading, creating this racist hate that sponsors vandalism in New York city, for instance. Media can hurt. You could do a better job here.

So far what I understand, the likely scenario: criminal was caught, he was resisting to policeman and the policeman incidentically killed him. That's pretty much it. Here is no color involved. The details are inexact and to be sorted, but the article have to stay neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.188.81.84 (talk) 00:55, 2 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Removing color would render the article misleading and irrelevant and be a violation of WP:NPOV. The rioting was not caused by the media but by the failure to curb police brutality, although it is certainly true that the anger of the rioters is being directed against the wrong targets.
The videos clearly show that the suspect was not resisting arrest. Nor was the killing incidental; the officer was in violation of the departmental procedures, and has since been charged with murder. Part of the background of the story is a long pattern of similar incidents. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 05:08, 2 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2020

Death should be Murder 24.6.162.50 (talk) 00:30, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Not done - please participate in the above move request. Ed6767 (talk) 00:33, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

FYI: Image of George Floyd up for deletion

We do not allow non-free images of the recently deceased as standard practice in the same fashion as BLP under NFC, on the expectation that free images may be available from friends and family *after* giving them a fair period of mourning, and with the rationale that seeing the individual does not aid in understanding the crime and situation. Link to the XFD is at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2020 May 29#File:George Floyd.png. --Masem (t) 06:16, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Some officers "had already been involved in several incidents"

Notes that:

Two Minneapolis police officers captured in video footage restraining George Floyd were previously involved in other violent incidents while on duty, according to a database that documents instances of police brutality.

While making cautious statements about the implications of this regarding the appropriateness of police internal review and race relations with law enforcement in the state. Since I'm not interested in another unwarranted trip to WP:Dramaboard if one of you wishes to investigate this and add something about it in the lead or the body of the article feel free to do so. Cheers (but a bit less cheerful than usual), RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 23:07, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My main objection to adding this info is exactly as you said: "implications". We cannot make implications on Wikipedia. EvergreenFir (talk) 23:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
User:EvergreenFir, I think you mentioned the term "eventualism" somewhere? We're getting there, and Yahoo just published a story about Klobuchar declining to prosecute the main cop, what's his name, for a previous violent incident. All of that content will no doubt be worked into the article in the next few days--how's the BLPN thread going? RandomCanadian, there's been talk about this before on this talk page; please check that, and the thread on BLPN. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 23:30, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Drmies: Strange that you speak about Klobuchar, this article also mentions the same thing. Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 23:42, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not strange at all--I saw the Yahoo post on Facebook, and there are no coincidences. Toodles, Drmies (talk) 23:42, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Drmies: seems to be drawing close! EvergreenFir (talk) 06:38, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Even a WCCO report casts doubt acknowledges how police did not intervene to prevent the fires and looting

Lack of police intervention makes the reports of fires and looting very questionable [9] If you ask me, it's like the looting was politically allowed. I am not seeing no need for a National Guard, which at this moment would clearly a publicity stunt if activated.Mancalledsting (talk) 11:18, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What change are you proposing to this Wikipedia article? Evan (talk|contribs) 13:52, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

One change that could be made to the "Rioting, looting, and violence" section is that "devolved into" could be changed to "gave way to", or something similar. The current wording sounds like the looting and rioting are the same group as the protesters, but the source does not make it clear if the group of arsonists were originally associated with the protest. Clearly the protests and looting are associated *events*, but not necessarily the same people. 73.227.132.130 (talk) 19:43, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't know if this is relevant at all. https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/police-chief-much-of-riot-damage-caused-by-those-from-outside-minneapolis --Sleepcircle (talk) 12:44, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Affected Neighborhoods...

I have a few sentences, with relevant links built in, that I am going to insert. BUT I'm not sure of the best location. So, if anyone thinks of a better location, feel free to move this:

== Affected Neighborhoods of Minneapolis == Minneapolis has a eleven identified communities, each of which has a number of neighborhoods within it. The 3rd Precinct Police Station is located on the eastern side of the Longfellow neighborhood (which is inside the Longfellow Community). The destruction has since expanded elsewhere, locally to the West, in Phillips Community (north side of Lake Street) and Powderhorn Community (south side of Lake Street), as well as to St. Paul's Midway area and possibly elsewhere.

The confrontation/Death of George Floyd took place in the Powderhorn Park neighborhood (which is inside the community of the similar name). The area covered by the 3rd Precinct (MAP) includes both the Powderhorn and Longfellow Neighborhoods.

LP-mn (talk) 16:21, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Trimming the Aftermath section

It seems like the Aftermath section should be trimmed to summarize information but not duplicate details that can be found in the newer article: Twin Cities riots. TJMSmith (talk) 16:47, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ABC News just reported that Floyd and Chauvin both worked as security guards at the same Latin nightclub

This is a relevant fact that should be included in the article:

According to ABC Minneapolis news, George Floyd and Derek Chauvin both worked at security guards and had overlapping security shifts at the south Minneapolis Latin nightclub, El Nuevo Rodeo.[1]

This is the club: "El Nuevo Rodeo is the premier Latin Club Minneapolis, Salsa, Merengue, Bachata, & More. #1 Concert venue/dance club in Minneapolis"

http://elnuevorodeo.com/latin-club-minneapolis/ 74.101.202.221 (talk) 05:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am about to add this but why have so few sources picked it up? Also it should not be "according to ABC Minneapolis news" it should be "according to club owner". —DIYeditor (talk) 05:38, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So what if they did. It is not evident that they knew each other. It is just happenstance. WWGB (talk) 05:46, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's something related to this case. Why would we try to interpret what it means? RS reported it. —DIYeditor (talk) 05:47, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Them being co-workers at a tiny business is not relevant? How many people do you think work at that club? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.101.202.221 (talk) 08:37, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It was just reported earlier today, still less than 12 hours; maybe tomorrow it'll be somewhere else--and maybe adding it to this very Wikipedia will cause it to be reported elsewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.101.202.221 (talk) 08:37, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And AP[2] also reported it. That seems reliable. Hope so, it is sure to be incendiary information if true. —DIYeditor (talk) 16:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

References

  1. ^ Lastra, Ana and Rasmussen, Eric (May 28, 2020). "George Floyd, fired officer overlapped security shifts at south Minneapolis club". KSTP.com/ABC 5 Eyewitness News. Minneapolis, MN. Retrieved May 29, 2020.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  2. ^ https://apnews.com/af48a809881976ddd3bf6dbb225eb538

Statement from Barack Obama

This statement is generating significant press and should probably be mentioned in this article. [10][11]. TJMSmith (talk) 17:02, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Twin Cities riots which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:49, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Opening sentence

MOS:BOLDLEAD: "The death of George Floyd occurred on..." rather than "George Floyd died on...", because this article is explicitly about his death, it is not a biography. ——Serial # 19:43, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Some of these photos may be PD

https://www.voanews.com/gallery/minneapolis-protesters-demand-justice-black-man-who-died-police-custody

Two of these images appear to not be watermarked, and may be by a voa employee which would be PD Victor Grigas (talk) 20:13, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Shooting of Justine Damond ‎

Shooting of Justine Damond was removed under the See also header as "loosely related". In that case it was a white woman shot by a black cop. The cop was sentenced to 12.5 years, in the other shootings in Minneapolis and environs the cops were not charged or not convicted. Someone Not Awful (talk) 15:56, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Then I am not seeing then link.Slatersteven (talk) 15:59, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If the 2015 incident with Jamar Clark is included in See Also section there is no reason to exclude the 2017 shooting incident with Damond. Both were fatal shootings done by police in the Minneapolis area. No reason to keep this out because of race of the victim in the incident. Yodabyte (talk) 19:07, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"...If it's not already obvious, then yes. This article is about yet another case of an African-American fatality caused by police brutality, the see also section should list other cases that are related, such as having occurred in the same area. Please take to talk and explain why the Damond incident should be listed before reinserting it again". Furthermore, basically all sources and reports do center around the race of the victim, and this is treated as a race-related incident both domestically and globally, thus the previous listings are more appropriate. QuestFour (talk) 19:16, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That is probably correct but there is no rule that says because a victim is of a different race they are to be excluded from the see also section if that same incident occurred under similar circumstances in the same city (i.e. Minneapolis police unjustifiably killing a civilian).Yodabyte (talk) 19:29, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The incident did not occur under similar circumstances, however, and there doesn't always have to be a "rule", as per MOS:SEEALSO, common sense is at times sufficient. All sources and reports treat Floyd's death as a race-related incident, and the article, including the see also section, should reflect that. QuestFour (talk) 19:44, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You are incorrect, the incident occurred under very similar circumstances in the same city (i.e. Minneapolis police unjustifiably killing a civilian). Stop edit-warring this, you are violating 3RR. What Kablammo said below is correct and relevant. We don't know the motive yet of the officer. He could just be a brutal sociopathic cop without a racial motive to kill Floyd. Based on comnon sense and Wikipedia rules, as well as the reasons discussed above and below, there is no reason to exclude the Damond shooting.Yodabyte (talk) 20:43, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Race is not the only issue. Other issues include the training of police officers and the culture of the department (militaristic? command and control? the answer to these is "yes"). It is interesting that the officer has now been charged with the same offenses of which the officer involved in the Damond incident was convicted. This is not just or only race related; it reflects a longstanding problem with the department itself. And who are we to judge the actual motivations of the officer at the time? How do we know they were race-related? Believe me, some MPD officers are equally capable of mistreating and abusing suspects of any race. Kablammo (talk) 20:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

$20 bill

It was confirmed later on the $20 bill was legitimate Cluckpoof (talk) 22:52, 29 May 2020 (UTC) Cluckpoof (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Reply[reply]

Sounds good. What's the Sauce? Kire1975 (talk) 22:54, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Cluckpoof, have a source? Ed6767 (talk) 22:57, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not seeing one...I think that's just speculation. Thanoscar21talk, contribs 23:02, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Still the true root of all evil, counterfeit or otherwise, IMHO. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
InedibleHulk, I agree but let's not turn this thread into a forum for discussing this atrocity. Ed6767 (talk) 23:37, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Aye, just seeing if that was still common knowledge in this "new normal", thanks for setting me straight. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:46, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Race of police officer

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why is the fact that the police officer was white so prominent in the lead? It's literately a black and white story to mention that so clearly. It's BIAS. Why is the race of Tou Thao not mentioned? Why is in the article Death of Eric Garner not mentioned that Daniel Pantaleo is Hispanic?

I also have an objection to mentioning the name of the perpetrators, that's not relevant. --Wester (talk) 22:20, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The white guy in control seems to have killed the black guy in custody, it writes itself. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:29, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's the narrative, but would it made a difference if the arresting officer was black? If a white officer arrest a black man and something goes wrong it's racism and manslaughter, if a black officer arrest a black man and something goes wrong than it's just a fault. That's double standard and anti-white racism. There is no place for that on Wikipedia. Wikipedia just be neutral and not participate in those oversimplified black and white stories.--Wester (talk) 22:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Wester: This is not the place for you to opine on "anti-white racism". Either adhere to WP:NPOV or edit elsewhere. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:37, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I react to the fact that on this page the race of the officer is mentioned in the lead and in the article Death of Eric Garner (where the officer was Hispanic) not. That's double standard. That is a significant discussion. There is no place on Wikipedia for reverse discrimination. I completely support a neutral point of view, but that does not mean the race should be mentioned so cleary in the first sentence. It's exactly not neutral to mention it so clearly in the lead, that BIAS. --Wester (talk) 22:41, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We got with what reliable sources say and emphasize. We aren't going to change this article because you don't like how it relates to another article. That's not Wikipedia policy, and it never has been. If you don't like it, I would suggest take this elsewhere. Stavd3 (talk) 00:12, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This story has these facts. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wester, you're joking, right? The guy was just charged with murder. Also, race is clearly important here per 90% of the RS on this (see Talk:Death_of_George_Floyd#Race_and_RS). EvergreenFir (talk) 22:30, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's the media narrative poor black man versus evil white police officer. But should Wikipedia participate in that bias narrative?--Wester (talk) 22:46, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's not a "bias narrative", the dude was pretty clearly intentionally killed. But regardless, we go with what reliable sources indicate, and they indicate that race played a significant role in this case. It seems like you're here to Right Great Wrongs, and not to help build the encyclopedia, in which case I would strongly urge you to take this up on a non-Wikipedia site.
Manslaughter, technically, but yeah. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:32, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@InedibleHulk: Both! 3rd degree murder and manslaughter. But I suspect they're aiming for a plea to the latter. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:36, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Those are synonyms, no? InedibleHulk (talk) 22:40, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Try to keep on topic guys Ed6767 (talk) 22:44, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Varies by jurisdiction and attendant circumstances. But no, not exactly the same. 3rd degree murder here is "perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life" and (2nd degree) manslaughter is "caused the death of a person by culpable negligence, creating an unreasonable risk and taking a chance of causing death or great bodily harm" according to the charging document. Minor differences in mens rea requirements, attendant circumstances, and the associated sentencing. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:47, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah, an alleged sicko as well, thanks! InedibleHulk (talk) 22:49, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

FYI: Since it's clearly really important to mention the race of perpetrators I also updated to article Death_of_Eric_Garner to bring cohesion in wikipedia. That now states ' Daniel Pantaleo, a Latino New York City Police Department (NYPD) officer', exactly the same formula used here. But I suspect that edit will be reversed quickly. Like I said: double standards.--Wester (talk) 22:55, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wester, (a) don't discuss other articles on this article's talk page, (2) assume good faith. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:59, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Nobody has given an proper argument against my double standard argument. Why should Wikipedia participate in an oversimplified black versus white narrative? If an African American commits a crime than overemphasis on race would also be called racism. The emphasis on the race of the officer implies racism while that's not proven. Wikipedia should be neutral.--Wester (talk) 23:04, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wester, Wikipedia reflects what is in reliable sources. And, that's a white cop kneeling on a black man's neck until he died. Wikipedia is neutral by including their races, and would be engaging in POV by ignoring it. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sources are needed for facts. The phrase 'white Minneapolis officer' is a formulation. Like I said: the inclusion automatically implied race was a factor in the death, while that's not proven. Wikipedia should be careful with that kind of formulation, because it creates narratives. It's not because the media loves this kind of things that Wikipedia should participate in that.--Wester (talk) 23:15, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wester, give it a rest. This talk page is about what to put in the article. It is not a forum for your personal views. Both Reliable Sources and consensus agree that mentioning the race of the officer and the victim is important to the story. It is particularly important because it has become a pattern in Minneapolis. (For more information, check the three articles listed under "see also" in the article.) If you keep this up I will hat the discussion. -- MelanieN (talk) 23:32, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I literally just searched for the victim's name. Here is the top search result:[12] It says, "Government officials and Minnesota locals alike expressed outrage after a video surfaced showing a white police officer kneeling on the neck of a black man and ignoring his pleas for help until first responders put him, unresponsive, on a stretcher." Wester, it is time for you to move on. - MrX 🖋 23:41, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Cause of death

At c4 and 5 vertebra and the spinal cord in this area house the nerves and control of the diaphragm. I believe the pain he felt in he stomach and the fact he could not breathe was because the nerves in this area were being pinched . I know from experience and after my spinal cord was cut off and I couldn't walk the paramedics said was lucky c4 and 5 keep you alive . I'm commenting because I hope they do an MRI as part of the autopsy healthy men don't just die but with the neck restricted and pressure on spinal cord at c4 and 5 they do . RIP George Floyd . Wikijude75 (talk) 21:19, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That is quite interesting, but please do not use this page to speculate on Floyd's cause of death. We need to wait for autopsy and coroner and medical examiner's reports. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:15, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The cause of death is important because the page needs to be changed from death to murder. If we leave as death its the same as saying its not murder and that is taking sides, the side of Derek Chauvin. Ty78ejui (talk) 00:45, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"Murder" is only acceptable if the accused party is found guilty by a court of law. Until then the incident is a "death" or "killing", and if/when there is an official autopsy the cause of death from that can be added. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 00:53, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See "Medical examiner and cause of death" below. Kablammo (talk) 01:28, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See Also Section Needs More Links.

I believe it would be relevant to put down Black Lives Matter, List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, and police riots in the United States in the See Also section.

It's relevant because BLM often comes up whenever law enforcement kills black people (BLM has been seen on protest signs, graffiti, and news media reporting on this event so I can't see why it's not relevant). The list of killings by law enforcement is also relevant due to the event (a police officer killing a black man). The police riots are also relevant due to the event sparking riots are against the Minneapolis police for Floyd's death (as of writing this, the twin city protests have been going on for ~4 days). (If there's anything else directly relevant to the topic, please add it).

I think it would also be wise to put more advanced protection on it due to vandalism (or at least extend the current one to some point in the future (presumably June 30th, longer if necessary) since due to how events are unfolding, the protests aren't going to slow down and people will come on and edit the page in a way which violates the neutral point of view policy, presumably white supremacists trying to slander Floyd's reputation). This is a suggestion. If it's not necessary, then there's no need for further protection. If it is, then there is and should be put in place if there is.

I can't edit the article directly due to my account being new so if someone can put in, that would be helpful. Any directly relevant information that gives extra context to anyone who's reading about this event would be useful.

Lord-of-Midnight-18 (talk) 03:08, 30 May 2020 (UTC) Lord-of-Midnight-18Reply[reply]

@Lord-of-Midnight-18: A lot of those links are included in the BLM template below the External links section. TJMSmith (talk) 03:11, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lead: "Officers Thomas Lane and J. Alexander Kueng also helped restrain Floyd"

Our lead states: Officers Thomas Lane and J. Alexander Kueng also helped restrain Floyd, while officer Tou Thao stood nearby and looked on. However, this is not backed up by the source cited [13] In this newly circulated video, three officers have Floyd pinned on the ground, while another stands over him ... the officer who pressed his knee to Floyd's neck has been identified as Derek Chauvin ... the other officers involved have been identified as Thomas Lane, J. Alexander Kueng, and Tou Thao. The source does not specify which are the other two who pin Floyd. I searched for other sources, but they too do not identify the officers, just saying [14] three officers are seen sitting on Mr. Floyd.

As such, I feel that this sentence in the lead fails verification [15], but User:Isaidnoway disagrees. Note that the "newly circulated video" may have occurred earlier than the original viral video, we don't know if the officers switched positions. We must have care in handling WP:BLP, there is potential harm if we accuse Lane/Kueng of restraining Floyd if they did not (even though they likely did). Therefore we need a source explicitly backing the sentence, I don't think it should be left up to editors to judge the video, but the sources. What do you think? starship.paint (talk) 03:09, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thao is identified as the officer who stood in this previously posted source. He was looking the other direction arguing with witnesses about how they shouldn't do drugs so I have removed "and looked on" from the lede. Kire1975 (talk) 03:51, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kire1975: - I agree that Thao is identified in the viral video. The thing is, he's not identified in the "newly circulated video" (because it hasn't been confirmed that the two videos overlap in terms of time), and I don't think we should be using our own judgment to identify him. starship.paint (talk) 05:22, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There is no such phrase - "newly circulated video" - in the lede. Kire1975 (talk) 06:30, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kire1975: - no, it's not in the lead, it's what the CBS source stated. There's more than one video of the incident. starship.paint (talk) 08:40, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Problem solved, the offending sentence has been removed. Isaidnoway (talk) 10:22, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Isaidnoway and Kire1975: - a suitable source has emerged Thao was standing watch, and therefore the other three did hold Floyd down, as none of the three officers moved from their positions. starship.paint (talk) 03:39, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Starship.paint: - what was unsuitable about this source again? Kire1975 (talk) 05:19, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kire1975: - that source is suitable for the article but not for the claim that Kueng and Lane held Floyd down. That source only refers to the 10-minute video, not the other-angle video showing three officers holding Floyd down. starship.paint (talk) 05:22, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Protests

Should we go into more depth about the protests revolving around the Death of George Floyd? I understand that a section has been put into place regarding this topic, but I feel that it needs more depth, as at this point, all the information about the main portion of the event, the actual death, has already been completely covered. The only current events are currently the protests, so should we go into greater detail about this? Note: It has been brought to my attention that there is a Twin Cities Protests page, I will link to this page at an appropriate place in the article. JazzClam (talk) 11:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC) It has been brought to my attention that it is already in the article. JazzClam (talk) 11:54, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

Floyd might have received the counterfeit note from someone else, without knowing that it was counterfeit, and Friedrich Fiegenwald Coy subsequently suspects that the whole deadly charade was arranged to demonise cash and African Americans per se. 2A00:23C5:411F:EB00:D9E8:A600:E184:776E (talk) 14:37, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Who?Slatersteven (talk) 14:38, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for the suggestion. Could you please link a reliable source? The Spirit of Oohoowahoo (talk) 14:44, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
 Not done - Please follow the instructions when posting an edit request: This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". - MrX 🖋 14:46, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

Please replace:

| image_name = George Floyd neck knelt on by police officer.png
| image_size = 160px
| caption = A frame from a video of the event taken by an onlooker

with:

| image_name = George Floyd fired police officers.png
| image_size = 160px
| caption = The four officers fired in connection with George Floyd's death

Using https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZOzl-aXkAIMltM?format=png&name=large for Media:George Floyd fired police officers.png

Information related to the image: https://tineye.com/search/7337fa8ae9e7509380fbce3a52b50615c6c5a8d7

Thank you for your consideration in this request 172.101.5.82 (talk) 16:47, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done: Wikipedia can't use copyrighted images without permission from the copyright holder. See WP:COPYRIGHT. Sundayclose (talk) 17:13, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What is the object?

In this newly released video, the one police officer who is not pinning Floyd down spends some time looking for something in the back of the police vehicle on the right side of which Floyd is lying, then Thomas Lane (the officer pinning Floyd's legs) reaches out, and the officer at the rear of the vehicle hands him the object he has retrieved from the back of the police vehicle. Have any news sources reported about what this object was? If so, this information should be added to the article. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 11:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please read wp:or and wp:rs, we do not speculate we report what others say.Slatersteven (talk) 11:27, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
????? The OP asked if anyone has found reliable secondary sources discussing the issue. They did not suggest we speculate. Asking for help finding secondary sources is part of the purpose of talk pages. Nil Einne (talk) 19:39, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I had a look and couldn't find any RS discussion of this. For example, this analysis by NBC [16], linked by another editor above, does include that video in their analysis slightly but bypasses the earlier part where that happened. It's difficult to search for though. If it's significant, I'm sure it will emerge over time. BTW, since I like to nitpick myself I probably should preemptively mention that yes, not all "news sources" are reliable secondary sources. Still I think the OP's comment was clear enough that they weren't asking us to speculate ourselves and were instead asking us to look for sources even if they potentially didn't completely understand what an RS is. Also even if there are RS about this, it doesn't guarantee it belongs per WP:UNDUE etc. However I don't think there's anything that wrong with the OP saying they feel it belongs if it's in RS, they can express an opinion and if others feel it doesn't belong despite being in an RS, they can explain why and we can come to consensus. Provided the OP is willing to accept the views of others on the merits of including the info, if it is covered in RS, there's no real reason to criticise them for feeling it belongs if it's covered in an RS. Nil Einne (talk) 20:57, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

please exchange 'depraved-mind' to 'depraved-heart' Espiee (talk) 04:42, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Done CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! 05:14, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
eraser Undone It was correct. Minnesota's 3rd degree murder statute uses the term "depraved mind", though the more common term appears to be depraved heart. But since this is Minnesota specific, we should use its language. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:24, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
EvergreenFir, The source used "depraved heart" first, though it also mentioned "depraved mind", [17], the statute itself was not cited, but I'm content to keep it the "depraved mind". Though I do somewhat question if we need to mention that at all? Seems a bit WP:SYNTH to me, unless one of the RS covering the issue have taken the time to point out it is a depraved mind murder. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! 05:36, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@CaptainEek: I've found some articles that go into the details ([18], [19] for example). This phrase seems to have some history in Minnesota and charging police ([20]). EvergreenFir (talk) 05:55, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Minnesota's statute specifically says "depraved mind".([21]) Perennial Student (talk) 22:22, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comparison of treatment of George Floyd and majority white armed anti-lockdown protesters by police

Many news sources are comparing the very different treatment by police of the George Floyd protests and the majority white anti lockdown protestors

I'm not sure sure how to include this in the article.

John Cummings (talk) 20:16, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Some mention of this in the aftermath section would be appropriate, perhaps a subsection "Comparisons to anti-lockdown protests" or something like that. —DIYeditor (talk) 20:26, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Agree with DIYeditorShrinkydinks (talk) 20:47, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I also agree. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:50, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, please feel free to add it, I can try but I don't understand the context well. John Cummings (talk) 12:16, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The media has highlighted the differences in aggression between the police response to black protesters in these protests versus the more measured response to the 2020 United States anti-lockdown protests featuring gun-wielding white protesters.[22][23] This sentiment also spread on social media.[24]

@John Cummings, Muboshgu, Shrinkydinks, and DIYeditor: I made an attempt. starship.paint (talk) 07:33, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Starship.paint this looks good but I would change it to "apparent differences in aggression" so that we are not stating it as a fact in Wikipedia's voice. The fact we are reporting is that the media discussed it not that there was a difference. —DIYeditor (talk) 23:21, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@DIYeditor: - you can make the change if you haven’t already. Thanks! starship.paint (talk) 00:48, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Floyd’s “Girlfriend”

I have seen several instances of people saying that Courtney Ross is actually a paid actor, and that his real fiancé is Shawnda King. I do not have all current facts but I thought I should bring this up JordanianMaroon (talk) 00:55, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

JordanianMaroon, I'm not sure how this would be relevant to his death though? Until we see sources, this is nothing but speculatory. Ed6767 (talk) 00:58, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's Shawanda Hill, but there don't seem to be good sources as to what is going on with that. The "paid actor" stuff, though, sounds like an Alex Jones-type invention. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:49, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can't find a *single* source, reputable or not, that supports this theory. This definitely should not be included. --FeldBum (talk) 03:13, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I saw one instance of a person saying it, so that maroon above at least counts for "not reputable", what with its lack of current facts. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:03, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you Google it, there are plenty of hits, but none of them from reliable sources. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:45, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's possible to have more than one girlfriend at a time, but I'm really not sure what relevance his romantic life is to this article. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:18, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ditto, more pointless background whose relevance is minuscule at best.Slatersteven (talk) 10:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just one more effort to demonize the victim. (Apparently, alleged counterfeiting as well as possibly multiple girlfriends are capital crimes in Minnesota.) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:44, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Why are we giving this question any time? When someone starts saying a grieving family member, friend or girlfriend is a "paid actor" the implications are obvious ala Alex Jones and Sandy Hook etc. We can be fairly sure that whoever started this nonsense claim, is up to no good, and frankly the OP should stay away from people who would spread such nonsense, and that's being generoud. Nil Einne (talk) 12:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk) 00:33, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Reply[reply]

  • Reviewed:

Created by AshMusique (talk), Starship.paint (talk), and Shrinkydinks (talk). Nominated by Starship.paint (talk) at 05:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC).Reply[reply]

  • Symbol delete vote.svg As this article was already featured at ITN, it is ineligible for DYK (per criteria 1d). SounderBruce 05:41, 2 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2020

Change "Derek Chauvin, a white Minneapolis police officer, kept his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds; 2 minutes and 53 seconds of which occurred after Floyd became unresponsive" to "Derek Chauvin, a white Minneapolis police officer, killed George Floyd by keeping his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds; 2 minutes and 53 seconds of which occurred after Floyd became unresponsive" Luxeprogressive (talk) 02:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Luxeprogressive (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Reply[reply]

Already done. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 02:14, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hmmmmm, it appears that after I responded, you edited your request to request the opposite, i.e., you are asking that the article's lead be changed to say Chauvin "killed George Floyd." That is not possible at this time. However, there is a section above at Talk:Death of George Floyd#Requested move 27 May 2020 where you can make a "support" comment if you wish. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 02:27, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What's the issue? Floyd said they were killing him as it was happening. It's on the video. Pasdecomplot (talk) 08:29, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

"The death of George Floyd, an African-American man, occurred in Minneapolis on May 25, 2020"

Replace "death" with "murder" now that the police officer has been charged with murder, it is a murder. Aliyado (talk) 20:32, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We won't be changing it without renaming the article. There is already a move discussion above IMO with a clear consensus against murder until a conviction is secured although you're welcome to join it until it's closed. Nil Einne (talk) 20:38, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Its not murder until the courts say it was.Slatersteven (talk) 09:34, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Then the title should be changed to 'Killing of George Floyd' which is indisputable. Medical professionals, police chiefs, politicians, and the viewing public all agree to the fact Floyd was alive, then was killed from the use of an improper restraint technique, at minimum. 'Death' is a very passive word and does not aptly describe the evidence illustrated by the video. Pasdecomplot (talk) 08:25, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2020

Please add all arrest records and his jail time in Texas 4/2009-2014 2001:48F8:704E:CB3:E801:5A70:2B9E:B0AD (talk) 04:56, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nope. Volunteer Marek 05:26, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Jack Frost (talk) 09:49, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Under discussion at the RfC above. -- MelanieN (talk) 20:04, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2020

His DOB is 10/14/73 2603:9001:6109:B00:C149:6CD3:4025:70E0 (talk) 16:55, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Jonatan Svensson Glad (talk) 17:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Another semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2020

delete involved peoples' skin color from the article, as this aspect, skin color, is irrelevant in the unfolding of the events Wolf15d (talk) 17:52, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done: It could not possibly be more relevant. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:57, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The skin colour is hugely significant to the coverage and ongoing protests, so it is relevant. Although, it is unproven that this was related to race, and we all should be clear about this. Perennial Student (talk) 19:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yeah, could easily be more relevant. Like if a white cop was charged with regular murder and/or a federal hate crime after shooting a black guy five times in the back. The actual charges suggest race is way more pertinent to the aftermath than to the basic unfolding of this article's main events. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:00, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on May 31, 2020

In the section "People involved," subsection "Police officers," please add "(age 34)" after Tou Thao. This would match Thao's mention here to Lane's and Kueng's, the other two officers whose ages are given but whose birthdates are not. Please cite this to this article from the Star Tribune. 108.73.104.136 (talk) 19:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Done. Thanks for supplying the source. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 19:57, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Criminal past of George Floyd

I see that the articles talks about Derek Chauvin having already 18 complaints on his records, but nothing is written about Floyd's past crimes ? Source : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.154.221.239 (talk) 22:44, 2 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Daily Fail is not a reliable source, there's already discussions about this above. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:50, 2 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hello, it is not the Daily Mail that is saying it but official court records.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.154.221.239 (talkcontribs)

See WP:PRIMARY -- And the discussions about this above. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The way activists like Ian.thomson are rewriting history is my removing dissenting opinions "as trolling" and then "showing" that there is no dissenting opinions. Good job pushing the collapse of wp:NPOV. All encyclopedic content on Wikipedia must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic. 2601:602:9200:1310:93D:DA95:41FB:307A (talk) 22:59, 2 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Accusing everyone of being Orwellian is trolling. Neutrality doesn't mean creating artificial balance. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:14, 2 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2020

He supposedly robbed. 174.52.208.44 (talk) 00:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — IVORK Talk 00:22, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2020

Change the opening statement of the article from “George Floyd died on” to “George Floyd was murdered” 2001:569:BD31:4700:CC50:84DC:2BD2:22BD (talk) 03:46, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done. That’s a matter for the courts.WWGB (talk) 03:49, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Add comments by HH Dalai Lama in Reactions/Political/Int'l

In Reactions/Political/International add, The Dalai Lama, in India while teaching students, condemned the killing of George Floyd by saying, "...and then there are some who even take it as a pride to be able to kill somebody."[1] Pasdecomplot (talk) 21:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC) Pasdecomplot (talk) 21:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

checkY Done. Thanoscar21talk, contribs 22:23, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you. Pasdecomplot (talk) 08:57, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Add Wikipedia link to Dalai Lama

Please add the Wikipedia link at Dalai Lama name in Reactions/Political/International. Pasdecomplot (talk) 11:56, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

checkY All good. Thank you for the suggestion. The Spirit of Oohoowahoo (talk) 12:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2020

"On May 25, 2020, George Floyd, an African-American man, died in Powderhorn, a neighborhood south of downtown Minneapolis, Minnesota. While Floyd was handcuffed and lying face down on a city street during an arrest, Derek Chauvin, a white Minneapolis police officer, kept his knee on the right side of Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds; according to the criminal complaint against Chauvin, 2 minutes and 53 seconds of that time occurred after Floyd became unresponsive." He didn't just die he was murdered!!!!!!!!! 71.167.20.169 (talk) 14:21, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

When the courts say it so can we, and not until then.Slatersteven (talk) 14:23, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't just apply to people you like or whose side you're on. It's a serious thing which is afforded to everyone. It applies especially when you find a person distasteful and obnoxious. Perennial Student (talk) 19:38, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Many celebrities condemned the incident

I'm sorry, but so what? This seems un-encyclopedic.198.161.4.41 (talk) 20:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'd agree, especially as most of the celebrities listed have no political influence and have little pertinence to the subject. BanjoZebra (talk) 00:16, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The list (if there is to be a list per se) should be limited to celebrities that are specifically mentioned in WP:RSs and should not be based on any primary sources. I can't tell which are cited to what, someone should go through it. —DIYeditor (talk) 00:27, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This sounds like a reasonable idea supported by WP policies. —Shrinkydinks (talk) 21:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We already know what closet SJWs celebrities are, and it just adds undue weight to the article. sixtynine • whaddya want? • 01:28, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Please don't use perjoratives. MiasmaEternalTALK 04:58, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What?—Shrinkydinks (talk) 21:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is that anything similar to the closet hypocritical right-wing celebrities? You know, the ones who talk about how hard it is to work in Hollywood, yet their hypocritical rears *somehow* find a way to get work anyway? If anything, I would think it'd OK to have a section for celebrity responses to the situation. 2600:1700:C960:2270:FC45:5BB4:42BF:572C (talk) 06:20, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I would argue that many celebrities' comments are not too relevant to the article, but if there are celebrities from the Minneapolis area (born or living there), their comments might hold more weight in context. RunningTiger123 (talk) 17:07, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Agree. Actors/Musicians' opinions about anything outside their field are not notable and not encyclopedic 2600:8801:B04:2000:505E:2340:7AD3:1818 (talk) 01:36, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Disagree with the idea this information is unencylcopedic. Celebrities are usually slow to take political positions because they stand to alienate parts of their audiences. Celebrities' comments lend significant credence to the idea that this was a significant cultural moment across the United States. —Shrinkydinks (talk) 02:45, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is from the section that was removed from the article:
Many celebrities condemned the incident, including Ice Cube, Chance the Rapper, Debra Messing, Chelsea Handler, Jeffrey Wright, W. Kamau Bell, Meek Mill, Common, Snoop Dogg, Ariana Grande, Ice-T, Justin Bieber, Madonna, T.I., LeBron James, Talib Kweli, Kim Kardashian, Ava DuVernay, Demi Lovato, Naomi Campbell, John Boyega, Cardi B, Sean Combs, Candace Cameron Bure, Cynthia Erivo, Viola Davis, André Leon Talley, Mandy Moore, 2 Chainz, Zoë Kravitz, Polo G, DJ Khaled, Stephen Curry, Janet Jackson, and Jamie Foxx.[1][2][3][4][5]
It looks like Boyega has been readded. gobonobo + c 14:27, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Shrinkydinks, I'm sorry, but what remote evidence do you have for any of Celebrities are usually slow to take political positions because they stand to alienate parts of their audiences. Celebrities' comments lend significant credence to the idea that this was a significant cultural moment across the United States.? In my experience that is the exact opposite of the truth, all of it. —valereee (talk) 14:22, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • The TL;DR list of 35 names doesn't seem particularly encyclopedic to me. A reasonable compromise might be limiting the list to one name per source and the list present here should be of diversified names (ie not all black rappers for example). Personally, I'd pick one name from each source and link the source to the name. If people really want to see all the other names, they can always follow the link to the source. 172.101.5.82 (talk) 15:42, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • I think the list of celebrities is relevant to the article but I would like to see at least one citation immediately after each celebrity's name so that the reader can easily access their comment(s). I think celebrity names without citations immediately after them should be removed. Bus stop (talk) 15:51, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think we should have 1 line that says roughly "many celebrities have condemned the polices actions [citations here]"--Hiveir (talk) 23:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • We should have no line mentioning it all. Mandy Rice-Davies Applies. When we have a celebrity (or anyone else, for that matter) being relaibly-sourced as applauding or just "not minding" Floyd's death, then that would be newsworthy. That's not going to happen, so it's merely unencyclopedic trivia. ——Serial # 17:12, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    +1 —valereee (talk) 14:17, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I fail to see why what some celeb thinks is ever relevant.Slatersteven (talk) 14:18, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Results of 2nd Autopsy

It has been almost 3 days since the second autopsy was conducted, has there been any release of information yet from citable sources? RyanLB (talk) 15:22, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What second autopsy was conducted 3 days ago? AFAIK Hennepin County Medical Examiner conducted one autopsy. Although our article claims "preliminary autopsy" as do some other sources, I believe this is misleading. There are no plans for another autopsy. Rather they are still waiting more test results before reviewing the information issuing their final conclusions. The family are planning an independent autopsy. They announced who will conduct it etc on 30 May (US time) about 27 hours ago, but there's no indication any autopsy has been performed. Indeed reports from when it was announced suggested it would be conducted over the news few days. AFAIK, Michael Baden doesn't live in Minneapolis (not sure about Alleca Wilson), and it's mostly been the weekend and to be blunt, the situation is a bit chaotic right now plus the family need to get access to the body so it seems unlikely it's been conducted. [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] Nil Einne (talk) 17:59, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RyanLB: Just noticed that [32] says Baden will travel to Minneapolis on Saturday. But even if this happened and he reached it on Saturday, there's a fair chance he hasn't performed it. And if he has I'm fairly sure it hasn't been announced that it's happened. The Fox News source also says Baden will discuss his findings early next week and while by some definitions Sunday is early next week, I think it's unlikely they'll be revealed then so it's likely we still have at least a day and maybe more before any results from the family's autopsy. Definitely I cannot find any indication any second autopsy was conducted 3 days ago. Since it's clearly not the family's one, who conducted such an autopsy? Is it on behalf of one of the officers? Nil Einne (talk) 18:28, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

He was convicted of a home invasion with a deadly weapon. That’s not a burglary in an empty home. That’s a break in while the occupants are eating dinner and then robbed at gun point. 32.213.170.152 (talk) 13:01, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Source?Slatersteven (talk) 13:07, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And relevance? This is not a biography. Kablammo (talk) 13:12, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have to agree, He had served his time. This has no bearing on this case.Slatersteven (talk) 13:23, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The article isn't a bio, but the section on GF is. Jim Michael (talk) 13:48, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So? What does this information tell us about THIS incident?Slatersteven (talk) 13:52, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What is the relevance? How does a criminal history in the past, a thousand miles away, and which by all accounts he had left behind, inform us in any way about his death? Kablammo (talk) 13:55, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The sections on the participants isn't limited to what's relevant to the incident. It's relevant to his death in that he moved to MN soon after being released. Jim Michael (talk) 13:57, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry not seeing the relevance of that, if he had moved to NY or England he might not be dead. That does not explain anything.Slatersteven (talk) 14:05, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
They're major parts of his life. Also, the police would have been able to quickly find out about his convictions. Some mainstream media sources say that he & Chauvin knew each other before the incident. Jim Michael (talk) 14:15, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It is not a major part of his life, he was convicted 10 years ago. Also does the US have the concept of spent convictions? Or is a man a criminal all his life (and even if they do not, so? why dies this explain why this happened even criminals have certain rights).Slatersteven (talk) 14:22, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You think that a 5-y prison sentence isn't a major part of a person's life?! Even if it were his only conviction (which it wasn't), I wouldn't have thought something as serious as that could ever be spent. Jim Michael (talk) 14:26, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This article is NOT a biography. This is about the death of George Floyd, that content is not relevant to his death.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 14:28, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The brief bios of the participants routinely include major aspects of their lives. Jim Michael (talk) 14:30, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No, not in the overall context of someones life. Less so them him being a talented athlete who particularly excelled in football and basketball at school (for example) or the fact he had not been jailed since. But there is no more to be said. No reason has been given as to what this adds to our understanding of the case beyond "it was a major part of his life" and "If he had not moved he would not have died".Slatersteven (talk) 14:33, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree that this is totally relevant. Without this fact, how does the next sentence have any useful meaning? "Floyd moved to Minnesota around 2014." It is important. In fact, it's not even the whole story; this person was arrested on 8 separate occasions between 1997 and 2005. There's no separate bio page for George Floyd, so this is the most appropriate place right now.Lcaa9 (talk) 14:39, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
How, do people in...nope as that may be seen as snarky...please explain your reasoning? It might in fact be rather more significant they had not been arrested for over 5 years since moving.Slatersteven (talk) 14:41, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The sports info is less relevant, because he never did it professionally. Jim Michael (talk) 14:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So? Plenty of things are important to people and they are not paid for it (such as being sports fans, which for some is an obsession). Also was he a "professional" criminal, the source does not say that.Slatersteven (talk) 14:59, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A 5 y prison sentence is a major part of the life of anyone who's served a sentence of that length, regardless of circumstances. Playing sport as a hobby, for fitness etc. isn't. Jim Michael (talk) 15:07, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not in context its not, but we are going round in circles. He was not a professional criminal so this was just one aspect of his life he seems to have moved on from. This is my last word here, no valid reason (other then "I like it") has been given here as to why we should have this information and so I still oppose its inclusion, And as I am not alone in should be removed until, there is consensus for inclusion (as per wp:brd. That is my last word on this until I see a valid reason for inclusion.Slatersteven (talk) 15:15, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Tim Allen has certainly moved on from his (shorter) prison sentence & it has nothing to do with his career other than interrupting it - but we wouldn't exclude it. Jim Michael (talk) 17:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Jim, you are edit warring. Please stop. Lcaa, his arrest record had nothing to do with this incident which is the subject of this article. Did the officer know of it, causing him to be fearful? No evidence. Any other possible connection between that history and his death? No, and you can't name one. Kablammo (talk) 14:49, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
His arrest record had everything to do with this incident. Nobody calls the police on random people who didn't do anything. This person repeatedly committed crimes. Don't invade homes with weapons. Don't use counterfeit money. Lcaa9 (talk) 06:57, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I entered the conviction & prison info once - that's nowhere near edit-warring. Jim Michael (talk) 14:51, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You are correct Jim. I apologize for the error. Kablammo (talk) 15:22, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
 Not done - Please follow the instructions when posting an edit request: This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". - MrX 🖋 14:46, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is one sentence in the article about his Texas conviction and IMO it should stay there. It's part of his biography. (Even though it's something that the Minnesota police officers could not have been aware of; there have been no reports that he had any run-ins with the law in the 5 years he lived there. He moved to MN intending to "start a new life" and to all appearances he had succeeded. I'm not suggesting this comment be added to the article, it is OR/opinion.) I have added a better source; the existing source was behind a paywall. -- MelanieN (talk) 16:13, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I suggest removing the content in question for WP:BLP concerns (since all content regarding a recently deceased person is covered there), and we have this convo in a month or two... –MJLTalk 19:56, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I disagree. BLP doesn't say we mustn't say anything negative about a person. If something is well sourced, as this is, BLP is totally in agreement with including it. -- MelanieN (talk) 02:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Again can we have just one thread on this, please merge all these.Slatersteven (talk) 10:08, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See the RfC below, where I guess we get to repeat ourselves. Should we link from there to all the previous discussions? Should we ping all discussants in previous discussions? -- MelanieN (talk) 19:14, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Gallery photos

I think the gallery section should be taken down entirely. The photos are all of the protests subsequent to the death/murder, for which there is a separate article. Obviously there will be mention of the protests in this article, but I'm really not sure how a photo of damaged buildings in Columbus belongs on this article.

81.108.160.123 (talk) 11:19, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Seems valid, why do we need a gallery if images better suited to another article?Slatersteven (talk) 11:27, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Might all be better at George Floyd protests ·addshore· talk to me! 21:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I went ahead and mobed this to George_Floyd_protests#Gallery ·addshore· talk to me! 21:26, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sources for "this claim is contradicted by all video evidence"??

"A spokesman for the police department said the officers ordered him to exit the vehicle, at which point he "physically resisted". This claim is contradicted by all video evidence thus far released of the encounter.[9][10]" Neither of the sources provided say anything about whether he resisted exiting the vehicle?

This video - with footage - says that Floyd DID resist exiting his car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiSm0Nuqomg&t=55 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomas6785 (talkcontribs)

YouTube is not an RS.Slatersteven (talk) 09:03, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That particular video is a reliable secondary source, having been posted by NBC news and narrated by NBC reporter Emmanuelle Saliba. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 11:36, 30 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It certainly does seem that he is resisting (albeit a seemingly mild form of resistance) being pulled out of the vehicle. The NBC news commentator states that "the officer struggles to get Floyd out of the car". So saying that he didn't resist at all is factually inaccurate, as he is putting up at least some resistance when being removed from the vehicle. Rreagan007 (talk) 16:30, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is is resisting arrest? The source does not say that is says "struggles to get him out of the car", which is not the same thing. Is "not getting out" "physically resisting"?Slatersteven (talk) 16:44, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If a police officer orders you out of a vehicle and you refuse and he has to pull you out himself, then yeah that's physically resisting. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:05, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is mostly academic at this point, because the article here no longer claims that the resisting of arrest is "contradicted by all video evidence thus far released". The NBC video linked above really doesn't need to be incorporated in the article either, now that media like the New York Times and CNN have commented on the prosecutors statements in the criminal complaint. In case there is any confusion here, the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension turned over the video and audio recordings from two of the arresting officer's body cameras to the prosecutor, who then described them in the statement of probable cause as follows: "Officer Lane ordered Mr. Floyd out of the car, put his hands on Mr. Floyd, and pulled him out of the car. Officer Lane handcuffed Mr. Floyd. Mr. Floyd actively resisted being handcuffed. ...The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad... Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still." Actively resisting being handcuffed is resisting arrest, as well as the refusal to get in the squad car when directed by law enforcement to do so. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 16:57, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A video shows the police car after Floyd was inside. Off specific topic, but look: https://unicornriot.ninja/2020/new-footage-reveals-moments-before-george-floyds-death/ It's rocking, police are repeatedly reaching in, then it appears Floyd is pulled out, away from cameras. Another video showing the 4 officers is also available in the link. Point? None of the available videos show Floyd resisting arrest.Pasdecomplot (talk) 20:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC) And, obviously, the statement of probable cause is highly suspect, given the sources. If the bodycam audio & video have not been personally examined, if what is being described is not verifiable, then the prosecutor's statement is inherently unreliable. UR_Ninja states their copy of bodycam footage omits the scenes from inside the police vehicle, as an example.Pasdecomplot (talk) 20:23, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The prosecutor's statement of probable cause was filed in court against the police officer, in support of murder charges, and used MBCA-supplied examination of the audio & video from the bodycams to verify that the deceased resisted arrest. The bodycams recorded everything from the time the officers arrived on scene to the time Floyd was taken away in an ambulance. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 21:33, 31 May 2020 (UTC)Reply