Talk:King Alfred's Tower/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Godot13 (talk · contribs) 06:13, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Good article criteria[edit]

Clearly written, good prose; reliable sources (websites and published books) with inline citations; good overview with appropriate detail; neutral; no apparent edit conflicts (stable); appropriate use of images; no apparent copyright violation.

Minor comments/suggestions[edit]

Add citations to

  • (in History) – “The tower was designed in 1765 by Henry Flitcroft, the notable 18th century Palladian architect” and “Building began in 1769 or early 1770, and was completed in 1772 at an estimated cost of between £5,000 and £6,000.”
  • (in Architecture) – one or two in the first paragraph.

This is my first GAR, if I've made any errors or done this incorrectly, please let me know.--Godot13 (talk) 06:13, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

  • Thanks. I've added a few references but in the process found one paragraph and part of another were copyvios from http://www.alfredstower.info/. Although there is a note on the talk page allowing this I still think it is better to to copy text word for word. I want to check further and will do this when I get back from work.— Rod talk 07:20, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
  • I've now checked and there is just one sentence which is the same as the source site, because of the note on the talk page and the additional material I think this is OK. However it was done in 2007 and I think this was before the OTRS system was introduced. It might be worth asking at Wikipedia:Copyright problems for more expert advice.— Rod talk 19:06, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
  • As it is your first GAR it might be worth asking at GAN for a second opinion as my other GA nominations normally have more comments and questions (particularly about prose).— Rod talk 19:06, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
  • I can do that, if you want. Just ping me if you agree. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:05, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Round 2[edit]

Prose[edit]

  • You should probably add that the tower is also known as Stourton Tower.
  • Done— Rod talk 19:34, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
  • The source for the Christopher Hussey quote should probably appear in the references. (unless it is covered by the Holt citation directly above it).
  • Per Wikipedia:Citing sources, it should have a footnote and/or link to the source. (BTW, Country Living should be italicized as a magazine title). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:31, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
  • I've italicised & added a citation but I'm unab;l;e to find a copy to give the title of the article or volume number.— Rod talk 19:34, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
  • The automatic metric/imperial measurement conversion is creating a grammatical problem in some instances where the measurement word should be singular. For example "28 miles (45.1 km) footpath" should read "28 mile (45.1 km) footpath" or "300 kilograms (47 st) stone" should be "300 kilogram (47 st) stone".
  • I've changed some of these but may have missed one or two.— Rod talk 19:34, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Sources[edit]

  • Searching EBSCO Information Services provides no articles.
  • Searching the Burney Collection Newspapers (17-18th century London) show some references to Henry Hoare, Esq., a Fleet Street banker in the 1760's and 1770's (and it appears that Henry Flitcroft seems to have been the victim of a reckless carriage driver on 14 October 1772)
  • Searching "Alfred's Tower" JSTOR produced the Turner article you cite. Searching "Stourton Tower" also produces brief references to the tower being constructed "where Alfred the Great raised his standard against the Danes in 879" (p. 200)
  • I've added that one but interestingly we now have a conflict in the date of the battle between 878 and 879.— Rod talk 18:53, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Turner's article has some useful quotes/information (below are verbatim quotes)
    • Alfred's Tower, Hoare insisted, was to "Crown or Top all." It crowns the western escarpment physically, and so marks the culmination of the tour of Stourhead, but it is clear from the letters in which Hoare broached his scheme that something more was meant. He conceived Alfred's Tower in response to current conditions of political violence and uncertainty. The Seven Years War intervened .between the two main periods of Stourhead's growth. Hoare's letters show that the tower and its inscription were a gesture of solidarity with those political forces working for peace (pp. 76-77)
    • Alfred's Tower was meant to make the visitor conscious both of the arrangement of the landscape and of the political condition of the land. (p.77)
      • I think these points are pretty much covered in the article.— Rod talk 19:50, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Some of these quotes/information might be useful to work in.--Godot13 (talk) 08:16, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

If it still feels too light I will be happy to get a second opinion. I just think that given the lack of available sources, you've done a pretty good job with what you've got...--Godot13 (talk) 08:18, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Another reference--Godot13 (talk) 17:29, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks - added.— Rod talk 19:50, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
This is the last reference I'll send (it seemed to be the most revealing about the parties involved). Not trying to inundate you, it becomes a bit of a challenge to find the best sources...--Godot13 (talk) 21:28, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
I've added this in to support a possible reason for the delay in construction. There isn't that much on the tower, if writing about the wider Stourhead estate it would be really useful.— Rod talk 08:48, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Last comments[edit]

The article looks good. I've done some very minor copy-editing. Two questions:

  • Ref#11 is the source for the top 10 meters of the building sustaining damage by an aircraft impact. Is there a source for the specific type of plane which you mention in the article?
  • I've added a couple of refs. It's also detailed on this forum but I don't think I can use that as a reliable source.— Rod talk 07:55, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
  • To clairfy - is the inscription you quote at the very end the same one mentioned in the paragrpah above it, or is this different?--Godot13 (talk) 22:19, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Yes that text is over the door.— Rod talk 07:55, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Third party comments[edit]

  • Hi there! Godot mentioned this review to me (you can see my reply there) and I've been having a little look. One thing is sticking out at me: you don't actually define the subject in the lede. It may be redundant, but you should clearly state that it is a tower, or a tower built as a folly, or whatever. See WP:LEDE, particularly "[A lead] should define the topic..." — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:42, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Thanks - added to lead.— Rod talk 19:50, 21 May 2014 (UTC)