Talk:Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross
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I added information from feldgrau.com/rk.html. Filippo Argenti 22:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
First pictures of KC w/ Diamonds didn't load for me
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Delete this please
under the same general idea, vandalism in the first section's heading reads "wikipedia is evil they are fascist oppresors of free thought long live produde94". i dont know what the original heading was so i wont delete it just yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 19:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
...and Luftwaffe pilots could qualify for accumulating 20 "points" [with one point being awarded for shooting down a single-engine plane, two points for a twin-engine plane, and three for a four-engine plane, with all points being doubled at night].
Hallo, my name ist Rainer and i am from Germany. The information in the artice about the system of points is not correct. The german Luftwaffe developed a system of points because of the american combat boxes of B-17-airplanes. Ordinarily a german figther could not shot down a B-17 by the first attack. After the first attack - both the german figther and the B-17 or B-24-bomber were damaged. The damaged german fighter returned to his airport ( or craches ) and the B-17 felt out of the formation. The next german fighter attacked the damaged bomber and achieves an aerial victory. Some german fighter pilot says this was an injustice. The first fighter-pilot was the hero, because he attacks the whole formation of bombers but he recieves nothing. The second fighter pilot who has waited behind the combat box for shooting down damaged bombers achieves an aerial victory. Because of this injustice a system of points was developed.
- 3 points for shooting down a bomber at the first attack ( bomber must have been flown in the combat box )
- 2 points for attacking a bomber which was damaged by this attack and fell out of combat box because of this attack, this was called "Herausschuss"
- 1 point for shooting down a damaged bomber, which flew behind an combat-box
There was no connection between the number of the engines and the number of the points.
Excuse please, my English is not perfect.
Overly detailed article
I was going to drop the
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on this article as it really does have a lot of very detailed information that may not be overly useful for the general reader. However, I thought I'd ask for the opinions of others first. Londonclanger (talk) 20:41, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
Some remarks from a native German: "In the military slang of the German soldiers the Knight's Cross is often referred to as the Blechkrawatte (tin-necktie)" - Tin (German: Zinn) isn't even remotely related to the German word "Blech". A proper translation of Blech would be "sheet" as in metal sheet. "Blech" is barely ever used to describe non-metal sheets in german. Alternatively "plate" might be a decent translation as well. Tin just doesn't fit at all.
"Glory-hungry soldiers seeking this medal (which was worn conspicuously around the neck or throat) were seen as suffering from Halsschmerzen: a cynical slang-term play on the word meaning "afflicted with throat trouble", having a "neck rash", "itching neck" or "sore throat"." - Halsschmerzen is the most common term to describe a sore throat in German. It's neither a cynical nor is it a slang-term or a play of words.
That put aside It sounds at least plausible the term "Halsschmerzen" has been used in this context. "Hals" describes the entirety of the body section in-between head and torso including the insides(like the throat, "Rachen" in german) and outsides. Perhaps as a result of this we often refer to "Nackenschmerzen" (pain in the rear section of the neck) as "Halsschmerzen". "Nacken" unlike the english neck usually only refers to the rear segment of the neck. On a side note we've got the term "Kehle" for the front section of the neck (though that term is also used as a synonym of "Rachen" as well). "Hals" is sort of the joker term, because it can be used to describe the entire body section.
This material on the Iron Cross appears to be too detailed for this article; moving here for storage:
- Initially, the Iron Cross award was of a temporary nature and could only be made when the country was in a state of war. A formal renewal procedure was required every time the award was to be presented. The renewal date, relating to the year of re-institution, therefore appears on the lower obverse arm of the Iron Cross. The Iron Cross was renewed twice after the Napoleonic Wars and prior to World War II. Its first renewal on 19 July 1870 was related to the Franco-Prussian War and its second renewal came on 5 August 1914, with the outbreak of World War I. The 1914 Iron Cross remained a Prussian decoration but could be awarded in the name of the Kaiser (as the King of Prussia) to members of all the German states' armies and of the Kaiserliche Marine (Imperial Navy). The regulation was extended and from 16 March 1915 the award could also be presented to individuals in the military forces of allies of the German state. During this period the Iron Cross was only awarded in three grades; the Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class and the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross leaving a large gap between grades. There was no nationwide decoration placed between the Iron Cross 2nd and 1st Class, which could be awarded to soldiers of all ranks, and the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross, which was awarded only to senior commanders for winning a major battle or campaign. This gap was partly filled by awards given from the Empire's member states. Among the best known of these awards are the Prussian Order Pour le Mérite and House Order of Hohenzollern, which could only be awarded to officers. For non-commissioned officers and soldiers the Prussian Golden Military Merit Cross was the highest achievable decoration. With the abdication of Kaiser Wilhelm II at the end of World War I the awards granted by the various royal households became obsolete.