Talk:Known unto God

AWM

Hi Dumelow, Thanks for this article. I am wondering if there may be errors in the refs (and therefore this article) re the actual order of the words of Keating's added inscription. I am pinging a couple of Aust MilHist editors for their help: @Nick-D and Hawkeye7:, sorry to bother you...,

In the section regarding the AWM Tomb of the Unknown Soldier inscription controversy, do the references have incorrect wording for the inscription?

In Devine's piece in the Telegraph here, she has "He is one of them, and he is all of us". Likewise, the ABC ref here also has the words 'He is one of them, and he is all of us' as part of a quote from Brendan Nelson. The ABC article has no byline so perhaps was based on a media release from Nelson with a (sic) error? Both Devine's and ABC's are dated 29 Oct 2013.

According to Keating's speech transcript the words are "He is all of them. And he is one of us" and the AWM ref here also cites the words as "He is all of them and he is one of us." - different punctuation but definitely "all of them" / "one of us", not the other way around per Devine and ABC.

So, which is correct? Thanks for any input. JennyOz (talk) 06:03, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

All op-eds are unsatisfactory sources for facts, and Miranda Divine's often contain errors, so that source can be ruled out. The ABC story looks rushed. The AWM's website [1] should be the definitive source. I can visit the Memorial and check if it would be helpful. It's worrying that this section uses blog posts by Andrew Bolt and Miranda Divine as references for facts - these are not reliable sources. Nick-D (talk) 06:11, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

@JennyOz: I visited the AWM today, and took photos of the inscriptions, which I've uploaded to Commons: on the southern end of the tomb (facing the entry to the Hall of Remembrance) the inscription reads: "HE IS ALL OF THEM / AND HE IS ONE OF US" (with no punctuation). "KNOWN UNTO GOD" is on the northern end of the tomb. Nick-D (talk) 05:09, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks so much for settling that Nick-D! I am relieved that it does after all reflect the words from Keating's speech. So it appears Nelson accidentally got it wrong. Just about everything in press around Oct 2013 has the same error and there's this NPC address by Nelson "as you walk into the hall it will say 'He is one of them, and he is all of us'." However, happily there is also this on AWM site, and this SMH piece. Your definitive photo confirms those last two reflect the correct version.

My thinking is to now remove both the Devine/Bolt refs and simply use the ABC ref to verify the actual 'controversy' itself. It will reduce the section a bit but it's possibly too long anyway for this article's purpose? Should I propose the revised section here on the talk page first? Thanks again, JennyOz (talk) 06:32, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Revising the story using the ABC reference seems a good idea. You might want to check if the Canberra Times also covered this. Nick-D (talk) 11:00, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi again Nick-D, I have rewritten the section removing most of the sources with errors. I think I have kept it neutral. I've added a note re the error - though possibly not formatted correctly? Can you please check and tweak if necessary? Dumelow, sorry that an apparent simple error propagated in sources has necessitated these changes but on noticing the anomaly, I could not ignore addressing it. Please let me know any concerns. Thanks, JennyOz (talk) 09:52, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello all, and a happy new year. Sorry I have been away over the Christmas period and missed this. Happy with the changes made - the AWM section was really just an afterthought to the main article. I was unaware that the original sources I used were op-eds, the newspaper article didn't clearly state this - Dumelow (talk) 11:50, 2 January 2019 (UTC)