Talk:Korean War

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Former good article nominee Korean War was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
August 9, 2007 WikiProject peer review Reviewed
September 11, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

The general tone of this article that Korean war is started by North Korea should be changed.[edit]

Korean war was started by North Korea is just a belief made by media and politics. This article is largely misleading because it just concludes this false idea. So I corrected the article to show some facts that Korean war was actually started by South Korea, but some editor reverted the article.

As I edited, there were hundreds of open firing attacks by South Korea before 1950 june 25th when communists started big counter attack. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dongsoola (talkcontribs) 16:05, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

No reliable sources support your view, only North Korean ones as detailed in the Outbreak sectionMztourist (talk) 16:24, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

I have lots of reliable sources. Where do you base your judgement that I dont have reliable source? What is your reliable source that Korean war was started by North Korea? I bet you don't have any, because all of your source is from US and South Korea who were opponent of North Korea. My source is from South Korean magazine Monthly Chosun, from an interview with South Korea luetenant at the time. I even gave link to who he is on wikipedia article. I have many more things and facts including reference, books, etc whose author is not North Korean. Unless you don't keep nuetral view I hope you know you are not qualified to edit wiki article.

Dongsoola (talk) 05:34, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

I reverted back my addition and did some more edit today. I work 12 hours everyday and I use my very few spare time to make edits here. Please dont delete or remove things added by me lightly. I am planning to provide links and references for every new information and change I make, but I need time and I need to do one by one, because I have such a short time to spare.

Also if you dont agree that South Korea's hundreds of attacks before June 25th are merely bunch of 'skirmish's, please discuss why They are series of 'skirmish' and not attacks.

Dongsoola (talk) 06:18, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Your changes are against consenus and the numerous WP:RS cited on the causes of the war, if you continue to make such changes you will be blocked Mztourist (talk) 07:51, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
I think Wikipedia should be neutral. There are plenty of sources which give some credence to the North Korean version, such as US historian Bruce Cumings. It is important to note that the border was not peaceful in the lead up to the outbreak of total war. Information that cites reliable sources should be allowed.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:48, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
Certainly true, but it needs to be done in the appropriate manner which I think is the point that is being made here. The recent changes to the lead by User:Dongsoola are not helpful in my opinion in that they simply replace one version events with another. I've no issue with your proposal to mention in the lead the machinations on the border though if the information can be worked into the article and backed up with refs in the manner you're proposing. Anotherclown (talk) 10:09, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
Dongsoola, please refrain from making personal attacks on other editors, or their neutrality and use of sources. You've been reverted twice by other editors, and I don't want to start an edit war. Just to be clear, I have no problem with adding info, but we need to adhere to the WP:BRD protocol. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 13:31, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
To me this issue is so obvious, it's hard to understand someone who just insists that the Korean war is started by north.
I have no problem discussing on this matter, but I wonder what happens if the person who reverted my writing simply ignore the discussion? I already made a point about using word 'skirmish' but nobody is talking about it.
Isn't that another way of just pushing your view on others? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dongsoola (talkcontribs) 06:32, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
At the risk of sounding snarky, it's not apparently obvious to everyone, and we'd appreciate if you could explain it, then. We now have the opportunity to discuss the changes. The editors have voiced willingness to perhaps add some of the content in a different form. With all due respect, the view that it was started by the North is fairly widespread, and is found in any number of sources. Not to say that you're wrong, but it's understandable if others make that argument. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 12:40, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Ok. I did revert but undid just now after I read about BRD, but I dont think I attacked anyone by saying that the person should keep neutral view, and I am the one being threatend to be blocked here. If you can block someone just because of that person has different view then.. oh well.. Ok. Thats another similar issue. The question that which side actually started Korean war can only be answered if we can clarify what exactly 'starting a war' means. As far as I know South Korea did attack North hundreds of times. The page, however, simply putting down those attacks as with word 'skirmishes'. So what exactly is a 'skirmish' and what exactly is 'attack'? We need to clarify that too. South Korea records of battle numbers 874 times while North Korea claims it has been attacked 432 times and these attacks not only involved guns but artillery, planes, gunning from ships! I dont think you can never call these attacks as skirmishes. I am not even mentioning massacre of opposing civillians unconditionally just because they think they are the other side. This is surely an act of war and act of attack. So what do you guys think? Dongsoola (talk) 06:00, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

I think this is a fair point. I have changed "skirmishes" to "clashes". The term "skirmishes" is not used by one of the sources, Cumings. I haven't checked Stueck. I believe I added this passage into the article in order to provide some balance - definitely not to favour the pro-South point of view!!! I think, in line with the NPOV policy, Wikipedia should avoid saying who "started the war". As you say, it is not clear in this case. Neither side saw the border as inviolable, and both sides took part in clashes leading up to the outbreak of total war. I don't believe there is a definitive source about what happened on Onijin. However, another Wikipedia policy is that we need reliable sources. And we have to work together.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:38, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
I believe its fairly clear who started the war: North Korea invading the South on 25 June 1950, if there is any suggestion that this was not the action that started the war this issue will get escalated fairly quickly. Mztourist (talk) 13:38, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Are you saying this issue never got escalated, so its clear North Korea started war as many people in US and South Korea believe?
I will give you one point that this issue can NEVER be escalated in South Korea. Before/during/after :::Korean war, any people who had doubt North Korea regime is evil were killed in South Korea. South :::Korea had a great progress in freedom of speech relatively recently, any South Korean who say good :::thing about North Korea will get arrested, questioned, and his room and computer will be searched to :::find evidence to arrest the person by national security act of South Korea. (talk) 05:52, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
Howard Buffett, father of Warren Buffett, who cannot be classiied as a Communist sympathiser, wanted to investigate who started the Korean War. ( and off-hand i could recall) Syngman Rhee has rejected numerous offers from North Korea for truce; he never signed it, in fact! - Gopalan evr (talk) 01:55, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

To be honest, arm conflicts were very prevalent before the war broke out. There is indeed no answer to the question who started the war75.92.147.127 (talk) 02:59, 26 October 2015 (UTC). Wikipedia needs to consider that. (talk) 02:59, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Should the article be rewritten in the present tense?[edit]

Particularly since N Korea claimed to invalidate the Armistice? Serendipodous 13:13, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

No. The article covers events in the 1950s. Any ongoing debate about the war not being technically ended can be in the present tense, only. --A D Monroe III (talk) 22:14, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I think it would be good to have a single article that gives an overview the ongoing conflict. Currently there are several articles that deal with it in part: North Korea-South Korea relations,Division of Korea, Aftermath of the Korean War, Korean Demilitarized Zone, List of border incidents involving North Korea, Korean maritime border incidents, Korean DMZ Conflict (1966-1969).--Jack Upland (talk) 02:53, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Jack Upland I tried to do that a couple of years ago, but couldn't even get agreement as to what such a page would be called and given that there are already well-established pages that you have listed covering specific aspects of the ongoing Korean conflict its difficult to see how a single article could adequately cover all the diverse threads. I would certainly support a merger of some or all of North Korea-South Korea relations,Division of Korea, Aftermath of the Korean War, List of border incidents involving North Korea and Korean maritime border incidents. I believe that large-scale confrontations/incidents such as Korean DMZ Conflict (1966-1969) and the various sea battles warrant their own pages. Mztourist (talk) 03:15, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
I think those articles are needed because they cover different aspects, or particular incidents. But we don't have an article on the overall conflict. That's one of the reasons people keep coming here to write about contemporary events. I would propose an article called the "Korean conflict" which gives an overview from the division to the war and up to the present. I would retain the List of border incidents involving North Korea and merge the maritime article and the list from the DMZ article there. (That might seem redundant, but I think combining an overview and a list would be unwieldy.) I think having a overview would also deal with the recentism that sees the creation of articles like the 2013 Korean crisis that we discussed earlier this year. This way the periodic flare-ups would be put in perspective.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:39, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
I completely agree with you regarding recentism and the two Koreas. If you look here: [#Consolidation/rationalization of Korean conflict pages] you will see my earlier proposal to rationalise the various pages. One of the objections was that Korean Coflict in some sources is regarded as the Korean War 1950-53, but I support it to describe the whole relationship since 1945. Mztourist (talk) 10:34, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Korean conflict currently links to Division of Korea. I think they are related but separate topics. I think the Division page could be limited to the original division, which is historically significant, and the change of the border after the war. The Conflict page could provide an overview of the whole conflict and include North Korea's missile and atomic bomb tests which strangely don't have their own pages.--Jack Upland (talk) 11:17, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 4 external links on Korean War. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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N Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 12:47, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi protected edit request on 13 September 2015[edit]

In the 'Strength' section on the right-hand panel, UK strength is listed as 14,198 and referenced to references 9 and 10. Reference 10 clearly states that 14,198 was the UK "peak strength" in 1952, and that total UK deployment was 87,000. Request statistics corrected please.Steve1solution (talk) 14:00, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done as you have agreed that the peak strength figure is correct - to use total deployment would give a false impression of the balance od forces - whilst even the peak strength has a caveat in the info box "Note: The figures vary by source; peak unit strength varied during war" - Arjayay (talk) 15:26, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Anti war movement against Korean War[edit]

I just learned that there is a much forgotten anti war movement against the Korean War. You can find original documents at the Swarthmore Peace Collection. Lugevas (talk) 18:18, 7 November 2015 (UTC)