Talk:The Harvard Krokodiloes

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Sources[edit]

Hi, I'm a new user of wikipedia, so I certainly don't claim to know everything there is to know about it. However, I don't think it's appropriate for users to continue adding "citation needed" tags to the text of this entry, or a super-tag along the lines of "This article needs sources" to the whole of the article. I have looked at several entries of similar or related groups, such as Harvard Glee Club, Whiffenpoofs, Nassoons, Harvard Radcliffe Orchestra, among many other collegiate a cappellla groups. Most of these entries made historical or factual claims along the lines of those made in this entry; none of the other entries, however, had any such "citation needed" tags. It seems like the appropriate thing to do would either stop tagging this article, or go through all similar articles and tag them with "citation needed" along with this one. Harvardben 03:16, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it is appropriate, and would be appropriate for those groups as well. It is just that people usually put these tags on articles as they encounter them, rather than going systematically through every similar article. That is what I do, at least. If you are familiar with this particular group, and perhaps others that need some referencing, it would be nice if you could look for good third-party sources, such as reviews of CDs or concerts, or other articles, in newspapers or magazines, and rebuild the articles from those references. If you are at Harvard, you probably have better or easier access to good, printed sources on Harvard-related topics. up+land 04:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Uppland. However, finding internet-based 3rd party sources for facts for this group might be a bit difficult. I know there is a significant amount of information available on the official website. Is that good enough when no other source that specifically verifies a fact can be found? (E.g. printing 31 albums--I imagine that probalby isn't any source other than the website would have the listing of all 31 recordings, or a listing of the exact number recorded...) Harvardben 05:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
The sources don't need to be internet-based. In fact, printed sources are probably better in most cases, as they tend to be more permanent, or the type of internet-based sources that are also available in printed form and at least won't change overnight (like electronic journals, in JSTOR etc.) As long as they are reasonably spread, available in a decent number of libraries and, well, reputable. See Wikipedia's policies on verifiablity and reliable sources. The "reputability" of sources, however that is to be defined, is not such a big issue for an article on an a cappella group as it would be for some other topics more vulnerable to crackpottery or heavily biased editing from a religious or nationalist point of view. It's more a matter of upholding the neutral point of view and avoid the ad-like qualities that tend to invade this type of article when it grows beyond stub-size. It also allows the article to include evaluative statements - they just need to be sourced and attributed and, obviously and most importantly, representative of what critics or other observers have actually said. For simple facts, like the titles in their back catalogue, I'm sure you can use their website, but it is better if the article is not entirely based on the website of the subject of an article. (A lot of articles are, and I have written articles like that too, but they all need to be improved.) up+land 05:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Nobody probably cares about this anymore, but I went through the Harvard Glee Club article and "fixed" it so that it meets WP's citation guidelines. All it takes is someone to take the time and do it. There are many college club pages (especially singing groups) that are rife with historical claims and possibly dubious references... --Dmz5 21:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

History[edit]

I know I have read a couple blurbs and spoken to harvard-alum singers who claim that the krokodiloes were in some way an offshoot of the Harvard Glee Club. This article seems to close off that possibility in its intro, but I am aware that there are "political" things in the singing world at ivy leage colleges that might make someone want to avoid mentioning such a connection (I know that sounds melodramatic.) Does anyone have any sources that confirm or deny the glee club connection?--Dmz5 21:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

While early years may have drawn from the membership of the glee club, the group is supposed to have been founded by members of the Hasty Pudding Theatricals a student-produced musical theatre group affiliated with the Hasty Pudding Club. I don't have any 3rd party sources for this. Any that did appear to exist would almost certainly draw their information from the group itself (as I do). The surviving founders, in any event, point to the Pudding and not the Glee Club, as the musical origin of the group. Oikoshome 18:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)