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decent families, drugs
I agree that the paragraph about the impoverished area of Lachine and the restaurants should be revised. The fire at Orlando Patate and the closing of Miss Dixie are perhaps sad, but they are not tragedies. Perhaps these were important events to the author, but they really just seem like anectodes to me. The reference to the "proud" and "hardest working" people on 45th avenue, as well as the reference to easy access to drugs are surprising; it is presented as common knowledge but I don’t think this is something distinct about that area of Lachine.
At the very least, I suggest removing the reference to “decent families”, to “easy access to drugs”. I also suggest to make the references to restaurants closing less dramatic, or perhaps remove them altogether, as the closing and opening of restaurants really not unusual and certainly not something that defines Lachine. Fguillotte 21:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Copy reinserted. Objectivity and historical truths. What application of historical evidence is the presumed editor basing his/her dispute on? In fact, all historical elements of a community are based upon observation and recording. Would the editor of the features of Lachine care to give evidence that Lachine is not composed of the elements in the deleted copy? The complete deletion of the feature copy, without sufficient specific dispute, is then based solely on the opinion(s) of the presumed editor. Those opinions are, of course, valid in the event that they address in a constructive way the specified copy. However, this was not done. Copy re-instated.
This section is still full of statements that do not belong in this type of article. What is the author's objective proof that this neighbourhood is either the "proudest" or the "most impoverished"? "Known as a hangout for local troubled teens, and easy access to drugs" by whom? Who knows this? It either is a hangout or it isn't. What is the imperical evidence that people in this neighbour are either "hard working" or "decent"? This is a value judgment that simply isn't verifiable. Was the demise of the "local eatery a "disaster"? "Sad generational legacy of loss" is not verifable either. "Although these tragedies affected most in the neighbourhood" - what evidence is there for this statement?
Idesofmontreal 19:41, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Edit has referenced as followed "most impoverished community" and stated not accurate. Quotation is taken out of context...reference "One of Lachine's proudest and yet most impoverished communities".
Personal reflections of some elements have been removed. Clean up of grammar and syntax. Drug usage and "troubled teens" are reflective of a reality the previous edit does not recognise. Lack of recognition of this reality by the edit does not provide sufficient reason to exclude it.
Historical framework, albeit of a personal nature, (more than one author has contributed) is necessary to establish information regarding a community within a community. Lachine has many features with historical and small community links. It is hoped that other areas of Lachine (regardless of size) will contibute to an in depth view of Lachine. These should include historical events and current demographics.
The paragraph describing "One of Lachine's proudest and yet most impoverished communities ... located on the southern end of 45th Avenue across from Stoney Point Park" is very odd. This whole section is a purely personal reflection on the transformation of a very small (and insignificant) area of Lachine. There is still some low-income housing on 45th Avenue, situated within walking distance of the riverfront. But "troubled teens" and "access to drugs" are not more prevalent in this neighbourhood than any other. To describe it as the "most impoverished community" in Lachine is not accurate. Some of Lachine's Canada Day celebrations are indeed staged in the Park. But the "inflated Slush Puppy balloon" has not appeared in the last six years. And the disappearance of the three restaurants is hardly the "disastrous tragedy" to Lachine youth that the author protrays.
Idesofmontreal 02:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Text from FEATURES section removed:
"One of Lachine's proudest and yet most impoverished communities is located on the southern end of 45th Avenue across from Stoney Point Park. Known as a hangout for local troubled teens, and easy access to drugs, it has a rich heritage of housing some of Lachine's less fortunate, but hard working and decent families. It is situated within walking distance of the river front which also hosts Lachine's Canada Day celebration. Major attractions to the celebration include a local store's inflated Slush Puppy(tm) balloon. In 1997 disaster struck this community, a local eatery, Orlando Patate, fell victim to a major gas fire. This continued the sad generational legacy of loss, the closing of the famous Charlie's restaurant, and the closing of equally well known Miss Dixie restaurant. Generations of Lachine youth can now only recall in memory the fine hamburgers of Charlie's Restaurant, or the hours listening to the jukebox at the Miss Dixie restaurant. Although these tragedies affected most in the neighbourhood, the area was rejuvenated with the development of condominiums. Local shops have had a high turn-around rate, but due to recent gentrification this community's economic recession has ended."
Deleted the paragraph "Military", reading "Lachinans are said to be descended from Robert Cavelier de La Salle himself. Taught never to retreat, never to surrender. Taught that death in the battlefield is the greatest glory he could achieve in his life. Lachinans: the finest soldiers the world has ever known.". This has absolutely no objective basis. Given that there is no "Lachine army" and that soldiers from Lachine would serve in the Canadian Forces and thus not be readily identifiable, if there is indeed a point to be made, it would have to be in the historical context of the settlement, when one could distinguish between various military forces occupying the country. This would go in the "History" section. And if there indeed is a point to be made, it would have to be rephrased in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia. Lach 02:06, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
"I will not tolerate dissent."
Listen, people: Just because your experience of Lachine did not (or does not) include 45th Avenue, this does not mean that this community has no symbolic meaning for many other Lachiners and their friends. This is Wikipedia. This is not a doctoral dissertation. Keep your personal judgments about what DOES NOT define Lachine to yourself. If many have experienced 45th Avenue in Lachine as significant, then this makes it significant in any discussion of Lachine. To those who decide that the fire was not a TRAGEDY, I ask, were you affected by it? What about the residents who lost everything in that fire? Who are you to decide for them that this was not a tragedy? Shame on you. I am sick and tired of this pretentiousness. If you feel that there are other features of Lachine that deserve attention, by all means describe them; but do not diminish the experience of others. 21:09, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- I have removed the section in question. The point is not that the tale of 45th Avenue is not interesting to some, the point is that it has no place in an encyclopaedia because nothing that is asserted as fact ("hard-working", "impoverished", etc) is backed up with citations. If you were able to provide a link to, say, a Statistics Canada report showing that the good people of 45th Avenue are harder-working than those elsewhere in Lachine, then that portion of the paragraph could remain. On a side note, if you "will not tolerate dissent", then maybe you should consider "not editing Wikipedia". Geoff NoNick 11:54, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
First of all, Geoff, let me point out that "I will not tolerate dissent" is within quotation marks. Hmm, I wonder what this might mean. Perhaps it is a stab at you people who refuse to accept others' description of Lachine. Second, if you would read the paragraph closely, you would see that the author did not assert that residents of 45th avenue are MORE hardworking than the rest of Lachine. This is your own skewed perception. The author merely wrote that the community is generally impoverished, but that they are nonetheless hardworking. This is to prevent people from assuming that, because the neighbourhood has a history of impoverishment, the people must be lazy. Also, nowhere is it written that this neighbourhood is THE MOST impoverished in Lachine. If you cannot read, what are YOU doing editing Wikipedia? Furthermore, if you are so concerned with citations, the entire entry for Lachine should be removed. Why would you have different standards for different types of information? In your simplicity, you should not even accept the distribution of languages given! Nor should you accept that FORT ROLLAND is a district of Lachine. 20:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)