Talk:Lacrosse

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Former good article nomineeLacrosse was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 11, 2006Good article nomineeNot listed
March 22, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee
edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Lacrosse:

  • Add references and citations
  • General cleanup
  • Represent a world-wide view
  • References themselves should be formatted consistently
  • Some thought should be given to organization
  • One more copyedit run through with an eye to consistent prose
  • Remove redundant information
  • Add section: "Overview of Lacrosse" (or "Introduction to Lacrosse") that summarizes the basic rules and strategy of the game. For example, what is "offsides"? What do the lines on the field mean? Why is a player running behind the goal? Suggest that this article be reviewed by someone "lacrosse-illiterate."
    • Very basic rules are covered in each type of lacrosse section. A general overview section would not make sense since the games are so different.
Priority 1 (top)

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Rules[edit]

Give better explanation of some of the rules. Laxman4life (talk) 00:48, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

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Men's field bias and other problems[edit]

The most important issue to correct in this article is its thoroughly bias towards the men's field game. Since men's field, women's field and box lacrosse all have different rules, equipment and positions, it is important not use just details of the men's field game in common sections, especially the lead and infobox.

There are multiple other problem areas, but rather than list them here, I'll be bold and respond to any issues in this talk section. I will try to break up big edits into chunks and provide good edit summaries. I'm happy to collaborate and compromise with other editors on my changes. My hope to is prod other editors to get involved and improve the article. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 19:12, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Citation to be used later: Donald M. Fisher (2002). Lacrosse: A History of the Game. JHU Press. p. 125. ISBN 978-0-8018-6938-9.Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 20:39, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

History section[edit]

After the native game content, the modern section is completely dominated by men's field. The whole section needs work, as does the main article History of lacrosse, but I'm going to leave it for now. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 20:59, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Versions and Levels sections[edit]

Versions are currently men's field, box and women's. Each is probably too long and contains too detailed info. The Main Article links should allow for a shorter summary in this article. And an intercrosse section should be added. Some of the non-generic content can be shifted to the Level sections.

I am going to delete the pre-middle school, middle school and high school sub-sections. I don't think there is worthwhile content to relate, the general field lacrosse section covers youth and high school play. But if someone thought there is something for a Youth and/or High School section, then please add it.

The levels of play could be College, Professional, and International. As mentioned above, some content in the Versions sections should move to the appropriate level. The women's game needs to be added to these sections as well. (Of course, the entire article besides the international section is going to be dominated by the US and Canada, but that's the state of the game right now, not just a bias). - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 21:27, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

I'll leave the top-level section heading for now, but suggest the following outline after History and Versions of lacrosse:

  • Levels of lacrosse
    • College (maybe no sub headings but brief description and links to men's and women's, NCAA and club)
    • Professional
      • MLL
      • NLL
      • United Women's Lacrosse League
    • International
      • Olympics
      • FIL
      • Non-North American lacrosse (different name, many one section, maybe many)

Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 21:42, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Equipment section[edit]

The equipment is different for each of the four versions, so I suggest deleting this section and covering equipment in the version sub-sections. Not much good general content in the current section. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 21:45, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

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Parked material[edit]

This is from the History section, that could be better used in the College and international sections:

At the highest amateur level, it is represented by the collegiate NCAA Division I in the United States.[1] The first collegiate lacrosse program was established by New York University in 1877.[2] Nearly 100 years later, the 1971 tournament was the first Men's Lacrosse Championship sponsored by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA).[3]

In other countries, the sport is also played at a high level on the amateur level by the Australian Lacrosse League, the Canadian University Field Lacrosse Association, and club lacrosse leagues internationally.[4]

In the summer of 2001, a men's professional field lacrosse league, known as Major League Lacrosse (MLL), was inaugurated in the United States. Initially starting with three teams, the MLL has grown to a current total of nine clubs located in major metropolitan areas in the United States. On July 4, 2008, Major League Lacrosse set the professional lacrosse attendance record: 20,116 fans attended a game at Invesco Field in Denver, Colorado.[1]

Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 20:36, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

From the Field lacrosse section, for olympic and professional sections

Lacrosse at the Olympics was a medal-earning sport in the 1904 and 1908 Summer Olympics.[5][6][7] Lacrosse was a demonstration sport in the 1928 and 1932 Summer Olympics, as well as at the 1948 Summer Olympics.[8][9][10] The men's professional Major League Lacrosse has used different field lacrosse rules from the international, college, and high school programs. With intentions to increase scoring, the league employed a sixty-second shot clock and a two–point goal for shots taken outside a designated perimeter.[11] In 2007, the MLL was bolstered by a ten-year television contract with ESPN.[12]

Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 18:46, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Removed Pan American Games section. Too specific for this article. Maybe Field lacrosse or FIL artices.

;Pan American Games In spite of being one of the oldest sports in the continent, lacrosse has never being included as a Pan American sport. According to the Pan American Sports Organization, the number of countries enrolled in its member associations is not enough. There are now 5 full members of FIL (Canada, United States, Haudenosaunee or Iroquois, Argentina, and Bermuda) and 8 provisional members (Mexico, Colombia, Haiti, Peru, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Puerto Rico and Jamaica).[13] However, the Haudenosaunee nation is not a member of the Pan American Sports Organization. There have been criticisms for the exclusion of native American sports like lacrosse and Ulama or Mesoamerican Ballgame. To calm the criticism, lacrosse was included in the opening ceremony at the 2015 Pan American Games in Toronto.[14]

Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 22:29, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

From the History section, to be used in the Olympics section:

Lacrosse was contested for medals in the 1904 and 1908 Summer Olympics with teams from Canada, the United States, and Great Britain. It was contested as a demonstration sport in the 1928, 1932, and 1948 Olympics. On each occasion, a playoff was held in the United States to determine which team would go to the Olympics; each time the playoffs were won by the Blue Jays of Johns Hopkins University.[15]

Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 05:02, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

From the box section for field and NLL sections:

Since 1985, when the Canadian University Field Lacrosse Association (CUFLA) began operating a collegiate men's league, field lacrosse has witnessed a revival in Canada. There are now 12 varsity teams. In 1994, Canada declared lacrosse its national summer sport in the National Sports Act (Bill C-212). In 1987, a men's professional box lacrosse league was started, called the Eagle Pro Box Lacrosse League. This league changed its name to the Major Indoor Lacrosse League, then later to the National Lacrosse League. It grew to encompass men's lacrosse clubs in 14 cities throughout the United States and Canada.

Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 05:22, 11 November 2017 (UTC)


From women's lacrosse section for international section:

Internationally, the game is commonly played in British girls' independent schools. While a minor sport in Australia, it is played to a very high standard at the elite level. Women's lacrosse has seen significant growth in Europe since the beginning of the 21st century, particularly in Germany, the Czech Republic, and the Netherlands. Japan entered its first team into the World Cup in 1993, and South Korea followed suit in 2009. In 2012, the first Israeli international team competed in the European Championships in Amsterdam.The Swedish National team took part for the first time in the 2013 World Cup. The Australia national squad won the 2005 Women's Lacrosse World Cup. The 2009 Women's World Cup was played in Prague, Czech Republic, won by the United States, and the 2013 World Cup was played in Oshawa, Canada, again won by the United States.[16]

Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 05:33, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

References[edit]

  1. ^ a b "Major League Lacrosse History". MajorLeagueLacrosse.com. Retrieved November 17, 2008.
  2. ^ "History of Lacrosse". US Lacrosse. Archived from the original on November 20, 2008. Retrieved November 17, 2008.
  3. ^ Carry, Peter (June 14, 1971). "Big Red Votes Itself No. 1". SportsIllustrated.com. Archived from the original on July 29, 2012. Retrieved May 30, 2008.
  4. ^ "FAQ's". Canadian University Field Lacrosse Association. Archived from the original on May 19, 2008. Retrieved November 18, 2008.
  5. ^ "Lacrosse results from the 1904 & 1908 Summer Olympics". DatabaseOlympics.com. Archived from the original on February 5, 2007. Retrieved November 13, 2008.
  6. ^ "1904 Winnipeg Shamrocks". The Manitoba Sports Hall of Fame & Museum. Archived from the original on November 9, 2008. Retrieved November 18, 2008.
  7. ^ Owen, David (April 25, 2008). "David Owen on the 1908 Olympic celebration". InsidetheGames.com. Retrieved November 18, 2008.
  8. ^ "Olympic sports of the past". Olympic.org. Retrieved November 13, 2008.
  9. ^ "Official Report of the Olympic Games of 1928 Celebrated at Amsterdam" (PDF). la84foundation.org. The Netherlands Olympic Committee. 1928. pp. 899–903. Archived from the original (PDF) on April 8, 2008. Retrieved November 18, 2008.
  10. ^ "1948 Official Olympic ReportThe Official Report of the Organising Committee for the XIV Olympiad" (PDF). la84foundation.org. Organising Committee for the XIV Olympiad. 1948. pp. 716–717. Archived from the original (PDF) on July 16, 2011. Retrieved November 18, 2008.
  11. ^ "League announces expansion of rosters to 19 and addition of fourth long pole for 2009". Inside Lacrosse. October 22, 2008. Archived from the original on October 25, 2008. Retrieved October 24, 2008.
  12. ^ "Major League Lacrosse Signs Multi-Year Agreement With ESPN2". MajorLeagueLacrosse.com. March 14, 2007. Retrieved November 18, 2008.
  13. ^ "FIL Members". FIL. Retrieved November 8, 2017.
  14. ^ Hicks, Brandon (July 11, 2015). "Pan Am Games: Dispatches from the opening ceremony". Archived from the original on January 7, 2016.
  15. ^ Scott, Bob; Scott, Robert (1978). Lacrosse: Technique and Tradition. Johns Hopkins University Press. p. 202. ISBN 0-8018-2060-X.
  16. ^ "2009 Women's Lacrosse World Cup". Lacrosse World Cup 2009. Retrieved June 11, 2008.

History issue[edit]

There is decision to be made on how to treat the history of the game. Currently, the history section entirely focuses on men's field lacrosse. For women's and box, their histories could be integrated into the main history section, or be placed in their own respective sections. Arguments could be made for both paths. The women's game more faithfully preserves the native game, so could naturally fit into the main history section. And box could be added so that readers get an integrated view of the development of the different versions of the sport. But it could also make the narrative of the history section long and clunky and it could force explaining rules that would better go in the respective sections. I'm up in the air. Anybody out there want to chime in? - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 05:39, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

History source: https://filacrosse.com/fil/origin-history/Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 04:21, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

European history source: http://europeanlacrosse.org/?page_id=1356Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 21:10, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lacrosse/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MX (talk · contribs) 05:20, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Review[edit]

Doing... Hello. This article has been in the GAN queue since November 2017 so I'll be happy to review it. Initial comments: there are a lot of unsourced paragraphs/sentences (some that I just added tags for) that need to be addressed immediately. My review consists of two parts; in part 1, I review each section and give grammar corrections/suggestions for the nominator to fix. In part 2, I check for close-paraphrasing and go into each source to see if the source supports the text. This is why we need to find the sources to the tags immediately, since this may delay or disqualify the article. The article is somewhat long so give me several days to review. Once I post back again here, that will be part 1. MX () 05:20, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

  • I've decided to wait until the "citation needed" tags are addressed before starting the review. I'm worried the text might be removed / drastically changed if new sources are introduced. I'll give this 7 days before failing. I've left a post in the article's talkpage to let other watchers know the situation. MX () 05:27, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
  • @Mnnlaxer: Hi there. Would you be able to get to resolve the CN tags soon? I'd love to have that in place before I start the review process. Thanks, and let me know how I can help. MX () 04:01, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, I'll get to it tonight. Thanks! - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 20:44, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

I looked and there are too many for me to deal with right now. Please put this on hold or retract the nomination. Thanks for trying - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 15:31, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

@Mnnlaxer: No worries. Thank you for letting me know. I'll be happy to review this article again in more detail in the future, just ping me. Good luck and reach out if you ever need me. MX () 16:50, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Assistance needed: GA review started[edit]

Hello fellow page watchers. I started the GA review for this article here. I noticed that the nominator Mnnlaxer has been active on Wikipedia on and off this year, so I don't know if he/she will be able to take care of the "citation needed" tags and the review. Is someone willing to address any issues that arise from a GAN review? I'd hate to see the article fail after sitting in the GAN queue since November 2017. MX () 05:24, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

  • I've decided to hold-off on the review until the "citation needed" tags are addressed. As protocol, I'll leave this open for 7 days before failing the article. I'm doing this because I'm worried the text might change drastically if / when the references are introduced. Thank you, MX () 05:29, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks again. I have been on/off, but I will be on for this for sure. I'll work on the citation needed tags soon. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 14:26, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
@Mnnlaxer: Thank you. Please ping me in the review page once you're done. Do you think you can get this done in less than 7 days? I'd love to start a thorough review after that. MX () 03:10, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
There are too many for me to deal with right now. I think way too many period. Most can be remedied by moving citations to the end of a paragraph, or reciting the same source, such as the rule-book. I'll all for citations, but I think their application here was over-zealous. That said, I'll work on it, but best to pull the GA nomination or put it on hold. Thanks for your willingness to take this on. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 15:30, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Gooey and ideological[edit]

"Early lacrosse was characterized by deep spiritual involvement, befitting the spirit of combat in which it was undertaken."

Rather preachy and overly sincere for an encyclopedia. For those who don't subscribe to this spiritual samurai fight club stuff, it sounds rather pious. 62.167.47.56 (talk) 19:58, 23 August 2018 (UTC)